I do not have the most ideal answer to this question, so I will simply give my opinion.
Baldur's Gate is of a different era of game design. If a game was to succeed, it needed a very passionate and skilled team of individuals working together to create a wondrous item of software. Sure, there were still games made just for money, but you could really tell the gems from the garbage.
Now? I find myself playing fewer and fewer new games, and even when I do, it's not for a long period of time. Maybe I have an eye for quality, or perhaps I am just sentimental, but games like Baldur's Gate, WarCraft II, Lords of Magic, etc always have a space reserved for them on my computer(s). I can rarely say the same for any game made in this new "era" of games made purely for profit that rely on what I call "All flash, no substance" style.
It may work on today's generation of gamers that were not raised on the same games I was, but graphics do not hold the same power over me that it does others. I want to see what I am doing. I'd like some interesting effects here and there. Beyond that, focus on the story. Baldur's Gate happens to combine an incredible story and gameplay mechanics with outstanding graphics (Honestly, even today I admire the appearance of the game), but the fact is that the gameplay was prioritized over the graphics, as all great games should be.
EDIT: I've said this before (even on these forums) and I will repeat it again: Baldur's Gate has an incredible soundtrack. It holds me in the game and makes the experience so much more immersive. I cannot say the same for newer games.
To me, the Baldur's Gate series is the greatest RPG series of all time because of it's incredible depth. No RPG I have ever played even comes close. Today it seems that developers focus too much graphics, and while BG had decent graphics back in the day, the sheer amount of quests you can do and how sidetracked you can get. Like @MilesBeyond said, it might not be the best at one specific trait, but it's great at every detail. Fighting in particular; defeating a hard party after a couple of reloads is one of the best feelings I have ever felt (gaming wise :P)
As I have some things to do and don't have the time for now to read through all of it.
But why the question, everyone on this forum LOVES BG, why would they otherwise be on this...
BG kind of set the standard for the future RPG's that I played and I have to say, non other that I've played came even close to BG...
Heh not really sure why I posted it. I like to post threads on topics that I know will draw alot of people to want to talk about or if I need info on something specific. However, this particular thread...I'm hoping some desperate game developer maybe will run across it and be like " Ya know, we need to do everything this guy says and make games good in all the facts he just described". I dont know hehe but mostly just to talk about I guess.
The witcher 1 and 2 are both of fantastic value too and they are different. I like both styles, the party based system and the lone wolf experience. But you see that DA is mainstream cuz of it´s mention everywhere and the games were mediocre at best and as authentic as hercules in new york:D
Personally, I don't consider the Baldurs Gate series the greatest fantasy RPG series ever. I personally absolutely love and adore the games but the honor of greatest still goes to the Quest for Glory series from Sierra.
First RPGish games I came in contact with and a couple of years before BG
For the kind of CRPG BG is, it is the best for those combination of factors. As to being the best CRPG overall, I don't know but it is definately a top contender and for those that I have experience with it is my favorite. BG is really the only CRPG that I enjoy playing repeatedly over the years despite newer flashier offerings and even some really great indie titles. I have yet to come accross a CRPG compelling, interesting and robust enough that I want to play through it over and over again AND take my time in doing it to prolong the experience.
Baldur's Gate is the best because it's great at everything. I wouldn't call it the best series in any one particular area, but it does everything well and synthesizes them all together into an enjoyable experience.
Combat-wise, it's inferior to IWD. It could be inferior to other games, too, depending on what sort of combat you enjoy in RPGs. If you like the old first-person style, for example.
Story-wise and dialogue-wise, it's inferior to Planescape: Torment
In terms of available choices and options and moral decisions, it's inferior to Fallout
In terms of overall freedom, it's inferior to TES (especially Daggerfall, as well as Morrowind which would have come out around the same time as BG2 if I'm not mistaken)
In terms of NPCs, it's (slightly, very slightly) inferior to DA:O
But what Baldur's Gate does is succeed in each of those areas. While Planescape has rubbish combat, Dragon Age has a horrifically bad plot, IWD and TES have basically no NPC interaction and Fallout isn't much for dialogue, Baldur's Gate does all of them extremely well. And that, in my mind, makes it the best RPG ever.
I agree that the BG series ranks amongst the best games ever for me and many people, but one bone I have to pick with you is Skyrim.
Skyrim obviously sold out to the current generations market, and they added mouth breathing ridiculous features and gameplay elements that make you reconsider if it's even an RPG anymore.
I get that, but the sad thing is you just have to understand that it's a choice of millions of dollars of profit on the opposite end of the spectrum. If they made the game incredibly difficult and punishing then it would cause a downfall in sales.
HOWEVER! - It's worth noting that Bethseda released some amazing tools and encouraged modding with their tutorial system. Modding alone made the game for me, and it is something I would have paid another 60...hell, even another 120 dollars for. The intensity of the modding community is something to behold, and counting Skyrim down for the count is jumping the gun, I think.
If you take the time to research all of the mods available, how easy it is to install them, and how wonderfully compatible they are amongst one another, then you can create almost an entirely new game with many tweaks and options available to suit your personal needs.
As a huge fan of both Baldur's Gate and the Elder Scrolls, I beg that you reconsider your opinion on the game after you try out what mods have to offer. (Please private message me if you would like reccomendations!)
Well im not a big fan of mods but might try those one day. For me its just wasted time installing mods for hours, game should be ready when its published.
Well im not a big fan of mods but might try those one day. For me its just wasted time installing mods for hours, game should be ready when its published.
I agree but again, I must emphasize the fact that it's just how the market works. Release streamlined games and you make more money. It's that simple.
The cool thing about Skyrim is they left the potential there, and the brilliant minds of modders took advantage of that and have made quite possible the most enjoyable roleplay experience I've ever had.
One more time, I fully feel your frustrations, the way the market is setup is disturbingly fecked up, constantly under the assumption that it's the first time anyone's ever played a game so they need to make it ridiculously easy and unfufilling to play. Please hold your judgement on the game until after you modded the hell out of it. It's worth it.
Surprised no one mentioned NWN 2. Yeah, the first game was absolutely awful compared to BG-saga (I remember myself playing it for the first time and thinking - what in Nine Hells is this??? - words that come into my mind everytime I start playing a new RPG). But c'mon guys, admit it - the second one was a whole different story. The story was captivating, there were interesting choise solutions, NPCs were quite alive and good-written. They even managed to make a wonderful TMOTB - truly epic, close enough to Bhallspawn conclusion. It blows the whole DA dilogy out of the water alone - one of the most dull and uninspired RPGs story-wise. Sure BG saga is out of reach, but NWN2+TMOTB was quite an immersive and pretty and interesting. Albeit not with flaws - there was no tactical element, to name one. But to my mind it was the only RPG that came close to the Bhaalspawn adventures
I guess these days the "tactical" element for rpg's is being taken out of the equation.
Unfortunately, Jaysama I got Skyrim for 360 and not pc because my crap pc is nowhere near powerful enough to run it but I still try to help fight for mods for 360. Todd said he can do it "in a perfect world there would be mods on 360" in an interview he said. Don't get me wrong though I love Skyrim and I try to play every now and again but yeah I've been dying to use mods for elder scrolls for AGES but microsoft has to have their rules on their products sadly. Hopefully mods will come in the next generation of Xbox.
Story and character development/progression, definitely. From Candlekeep dweller to godlike being, and all the glorious adventures in between. NPC banter and interaction are also at the top of my long list of reasons why the BG series is the best, unrivaled by current modern games already mentioned on this thread.
The Gaming Industry has much in common with the Fashion Industry. Gaming Concepts change like fashion trends do over time.
A lot of the older CRPGs had the party aspect where a player was concerned with party strategies and tactics when overcoming game obstacles. Today's games focus more on a single character where micro-managing a party was replaced with micro-managing a single character's skills (aka button mashing).
What the BG series did was give party members more depth and more options for interaction (more so in BG2, Planescape Torment & Kotor).
@Treyolen Ultima online was also perfect for me in the original version (sphere) once the bugs were corrected by the staff of the private server. Nothing else than +3/+6/+9/+12/+15 weapons and armors, 100 skill cap, no 'custom items', just the vanilla version. But now, with all the magicals items and stuff, its feel like D3.
'Why is Baldur's gate is still the best fantasy rpg even today?'
It isn't. Its remarkable in many ways but its certainly neither perfect or 'the best' in every one of them. This can be easily proven by how the community is split almost 50/50 on which game, Baldur's Gate or Shadows of Amn, is the best: each one has a different focus and strenghts.
That maybe but I still hold it as the best rpg series of all time.
And that's a important difference. One thing is to hold a game as better than another, that's your personal opinion talking, another is to make that argument to the world.
'RPG' is a super genre that encompasses massively different games. Call of Duty and Fifa are both Action games but I wouldn't say that either is the best Action game because that would be a stupid comparison. Same way I'd be reluctant compare Baldur's Gate with Icewind Dale, Shadows of Amn, Planescate: Torment, Arcanum, TES, Dragon Age, Witcher, JRPGs in general and so on.
'Why is Baldur's gate is still the best fantasy rpg even today?'
It isn't. Its remarkable in many ways but its certainly neither perfect or 'the best' in every one of them. This can be easily proven by how the community is split almost 50/50 on which game, Baldur's Gate or Shadows of Amn, is the best: each one has a different focus and strenghts.
That maybe but I still hold it as the best rpg series of all time.
And that's a important difference. One thing is to hold a game as better than another, that's your personal opinion talking, another is to make that argument to the world.
'RPG' is a super genre that encompasses massively different games. Call of Duty and Fifa are both Action games but I wouldn't say that either is the best Action game because that would be a stupid comparison. Same way I'd be reluctant compare Baldur's Gate with Icewind Dale, Shadows of Amn, Planescate: Torment and so on.
That doesn't make any sense to me. Those games all played the same way as Baldur's gate did but the problem with all the others was that they specialized in a particular field. IWD for example was a good combat game, planescape is a good story game, but the Baldur's gate series fulfulls all those roles to the highest expectations which is why it is still the best rpg. I still replay it even today and no other rpg even dragon age has yet to prove past that sort of replay. And yes, Shadows of Amn is the best also in the whole series.
'I still replay it even today and no other rpg even dragon age has yet to prove past that sort of replay.'
I forgot how to bold in this board, but pretend the 'I' is bolded for emphasys.
I'm not saying there's something wrong with holding BG as the best game of all time. But another thing is actually being the best thing ever, which is a extremely subjective position when you Actually include someone else, or some other board.
I know people who like Baldur's Gate, but prefer Icewind Dale precicely because its built around party creation (which is a big difference).
I know people who hold Baldur's Gate in a higher regard than Shadows of Amn because of the first game had wider exploration.
I know people who flat out likes story heavy games and, therefore, holds Planescape in a much higher regard than the BG series.
Not to mention those who likes dialogue choice and intricate quest design, which puts them in a position to like Arcanum and Dragon Age more.
I know people who can't stand Baldur's Gate because of the RTwP game design.
I know people who like Baldur's Gate because of the story.
I know people who don't really like BG's story because of the Realms setting (which he finds a bit too generic) but do appreciate the encounter design of Shadows of Amn (making BG the first game seemingly 'unpolished' to his eyes).
@Twilight_Fox I've actually never played UO. I was thinking more along the lines of Ultima V and/or Ultima VII. Those were two of the greatest CRPG games I ever played. BG is great and may even be the best. But it isn't a foregone conclusion by any stretch.
For me, it's about two things: sheer size and brilliant writing.
Most games which offer a similar playtime (for example, TES series) are a bit on the short side when it comes to story quality. However, Baldur's Gate and its successor offer a really long and intriguing storyline. You never got that much bang for your buck after the release of ToB. Damn, in the end of ToB I even noticed a tear in my face - something that never happened to me with other games.
@Aliteri and you're right of course it is subjective. For example, my biggest criteria for a series is replayability (generally more challenging things increase this as well). It's that aspect, the ability to still play BG and BG2 almost 15 years after they were first released, not merely out of nostalgia but knowing there are still things or people I've yet to discover. More party combinations to try.
This is evident in my top 4 Series (Please note that I say series and not game because I play very few games that aren't part of a series) 1. Baldur's Gate 2. Mass Effect 3. Dragon Age 4. Icewind Dale
That said there are still many fantasy games I've never been able to play or try. For example I owned KoTOR and KoTOR 2 but even though I have a computer that can run them now the games themselves don't work at this point. I've also never played The Witcher or The Witcher 2 even though I've heard they're fantastic. Personally I didn't enjoy morrowwind, and although I picked up Oblivion right before skyrim released cause it was only like 5 dollars I haven't played it. Nor have I picked up Skyrim yet. These are just personally what I feel are my favorite series. While the space between 1 and 2 isn't that large, the space between Mass Effect and Dragon Age is a large gap. Still I don't think I'll be running through ME1-3 once per year like I was doing for BG and BG2 even before the Enhanced Editions were announced.
Baldur's Gate is the best because it's great at everything. I wouldn't call it the best series in any one particular area, but it does everything well and synthesizes them all together into an enjoyable experience.
Combat-wise, it's inferior to IWD. It could be inferior to other games, too, depending on what sort of combat you enjoy in RPGs. If you like the old first-person style, for example.
Story-wise and dialogue-wise, it's inferior to Planescape: Torment
In terms of available choices and options and moral decisions, it's inferior to Fallout
In terms of overall freedom, it's inferior to TES (especially Daggerfall, as well as Morrowind which would have come out around the same time as BG2 if I'm not mistaken)
In terms of NPCs, it's (slightly, very slightly) inferior to DA:O
But what Baldur's Gate does is succeed in each of those areas. While Planescape has rubbish combat, Dragon Age has a horrifically bad plot, IWD and TES have basically no NPC interaction and Fallout isn't much for dialogue, Baldur's Gate does all of them extremely well. And that, in my mind, makes it the best RPG ever.
Thats quite a clever answer. I don't agree with all of it but it is a good point nevertheless.
@Vasculio I'm amazed at how little love the Ultima series is getting from this crowd. I've always been an Ultima V man myself. But I do realize that VII was the game that gained the most fanfare. It was also the beginning of the end for Origin...
Never heard of or played Ultima until now. Always been a big time dnd guy here and never could really get myself into any other fantasy worlds. Elder scrolls is an exception because of the vastly open world but now I don't play Skyrim anymore because I know where everything is now so there really is nothing new to be found in that game for me.
I don't have much time for video gaming and thus have a fairly limited basis for comparison. Everything else I tried is from years ago: Planescape: Torment, IWD & IWD2, ToEE, A Bard's Tale, NWN & NWN2, Morrowind, KotOR. I should add that I didn't play very far into any of those other games, to be fair.
I haven't played Ultima, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Skyrim, etc. Never played any MMORPGs such as Everquest or WoW either.
Since it is ultimately a matter of taste imho, I can only speak to what I personally like:
From what I've sampled, I have the strongest affinity, far and away, for the Forgotten Realms and the BG series use of AD&D 2nd ed. The other fantasy settings I've looked at haven't grabbed me. Their combat systems did nothing for me either.
So with the BG series, the setting and the combat system are precisely where I want to be.
In terms of graphics, I actually prefer the BGT series' 2D isometric gameworld. As I've said this before in other threads, when I'm playing a game with more modern 3D graphics I'm continually reminded of the simulation of physical reality in characters' facial expressions and movements. For me that works against immersion. In contrast, in the BG series there is no pretense towards a simulation of physical reality. You are playing a game. And the game is fantastic.
The only real shortcoming of the BG series for me is that the humanoid creature animations should have been rendered in considerably more detail. They're pretty scruffy. It's the one thing I wish Beamdog could have re-rendered for the EEs. But my guess is that even if they could have afforded to do that (doubtful), the contrast with the other graphics then probably wouldn't read right.
I don't have much time for video gaming and thus have a fairly limited basis for comparison. Everything else I tried is from years ago: Planescape: Torment, IWD & IWD2, ToEE, A Bard's Tale, NWN & NWN2, Morrowind, KotOR. I should add that I didn't play very far into any of those other games, to be fair.
I haven't played Ultima, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Skyrim, etc. Never played any MMORPGs such as Everquest or WoW either.
Since it is ultimately a matter of taste imho, I can only speak to what I personally like:
From what I've sampled, I have the strongest affinity, far and away, for the Forgotten Realms and the BG series use of AD&D 2nd ed. The other fantasy settings I've looked at haven't grabbed me. Their combat systems did nothing for me either.
So with the BG series, the setting and the combat system are precisely where I want to be.
In terms of graphics, I actually prefer the BGT series' 2D isometric gameworld. As I've said this before in other threads, when I'm playing a game with more modern 3D graphics I'm continually reminded of the simulation of physical reality in characters' facial expressions and movements. For me that works against immersion. In contrast, in the BG series there is no pretense towards a simulation of physical reality. You are playing a game. And the game is fantastic.
The only real shortcoming of the BG series for me is that the humanoid creature animations should have been rendered in considerably more detail. They're pretty scruffy. It's the one thing I wish Beamdog could have re-rendered for the EEs. But my guess is that even if they could have afforded to do that (doubtful), the contrast with the other graphics then probably wouldn't read right.
Comments
Baldur's Gate is of a different era of game design. If a game was to succeed, it needed a very passionate and skilled team of individuals working together to create a wondrous item of software. Sure, there were still games made just for money, but you could really tell the gems from the garbage.
Now? I find myself playing fewer and fewer new games, and even when I do, it's not for a long period of time. Maybe I have an eye for quality, or perhaps I am just sentimental, but games like Baldur's Gate, WarCraft II, Lords of Magic, etc always have a space reserved for them on my computer(s). I can rarely say the same for any game made in this new "era" of games made purely for profit that rely on what I call "All flash, no substance" style.
It may work on today's generation of gamers that were not raised on the same games I was, but graphics do not hold the same power over me that it does others. I want to see what I am doing. I'd like some interesting effects here and there. Beyond that, focus on the story. Baldur's Gate happens to combine an incredible story and gameplay mechanics with outstanding graphics (Honestly, even today I admire the appearance of the game), but the fact is that the gameplay was prioritized over the graphics, as all great games should be.
EDIT: I've said this before (even on these forums) and I will repeat it again: Baldur's Gate has an incredible soundtrack. It holds me in the game and makes the experience so much more immersive. I cannot say the same for newer games.
Like @MilesBeyond said, it might not be the best at one specific trait, but it's great at every detail. Fighting in particular; defeating a hard party after a couple of reloads is one of the best feelings I have ever felt (gaming wise :P)
But why the question, everyone on this forum LOVES BG, why would they otherwise be on this...
BG kind of set the standard for the future RPG's that I played and I have to say, non other that I've played came even close to BG...
Skyrim obviously sold out to the current generations market, and they added mouth breathing ridiculous features and gameplay elements that make you reconsider if it's even an RPG anymore.
I get that, but the sad thing is you just have to understand that it's a choice of millions of dollars of profit on the opposite end of the spectrum. If they made the game incredibly difficult and punishing then it would cause a downfall in sales.
HOWEVER! - It's worth noting that Bethseda released some amazing tools and encouraged modding with their tutorial system. Modding alone made the game for me, and it is something I would have paid another 60...hell, even another 120 dollars for. The intensity of the modding community is something to behold, and counting Skyrim down for the count is jumping the gun, I think.
If you take the time to research all of the mods available, how easy it is to install them, and how wonderfully compatible they are amongst one another, then you can create almost an entirely new game with many tweaks and options available to suit your personal needs.
As a huge fan of both Baldur's Gate and the Elder Scrolls, I beg that you reconsider your opinion on the game after you try out what mods have to offer. (Please private message me if you would like reccomendations!)
Thanks for reading.
The cool thing about Skyrim is they left the potential there, and the brilliant minds of modders took advantage of that and have made quite possible the most enjoyable roleplay experience I've ever had.
One more time, I fully feel your frustrations, the way the market is setup is disturbingly fecked up, constantly under the assumption that it's the first time anyone's ever played a game so they need to make it ridiculously easy and unfufilling to play. Please hold your judgement on the game until after you modded the hell out of it. It's worth it.
Unfortunately, Jaysama I got Skyrim for 360 and not pc because my crap pc is nowhere near powerful enough to run it but I still try to help fight for mods for 360. Todd said he can do it "in a perfect world there would be mods on 360" in an interview he said. Don't get me wrong though I love Skyrim and I try to play every now and again but yeah I've been dying to use mods for elder scrolls for AGES but microsoft has to have their rules on their products sadly. Hopefully mods will come in the next generation of Xbox.
I guess you can say Baldur's Gate is healthy for you.
A lot of the older CRPGs had the party aspect where a player was concerned with party strategies and tactics when overcoming game obstacles. Today's games focus more on a single character where micro-managing a party was replaced with micro-managing a single character's skills (aka button mashing).
What the BG series did was give party members more depth and more options for interaction (more so in BG2, Planescape Torment & Kotor).
Ultima online was also perfect for me in the original version (sphere) once the bugs were corrected by the staff of the private server. Nothing else than +3/+6/+9/+12/+15 weapons and armors, 100 skill cap, no 'custom items', just the vanilla version. But now, with all the magicals items and stuff, its feel like D3.
And that's a important difference. One thing is to hold a game as better than another, that's your personal opinion talking, another is to make that argument to the world.
'RPG' is a super genre that encompasses massively different games. Call of Duty and Fifa are both Action games but I wouldn't say that either is the best Action game because that would be a stupid comparison. Same way I'd be reluctant compare Baldur's Gate with Icewind Dale, Shadows of Amn, Planescate: Torment, Arcanum, TES, Dragon Age, Witcher, JRPGs in general and so on.
'I still replay it even today and no other rpg even dragon age has yet to prove past that sort of replay.'
I forgot how to bold in this board, but pretend the 'I' is bolded for emphasys.
I'm not saying there's something wrong with holding BG as the best game of all time. But another thing is actually being the best thing ever, which is a extremely subjective position when you Actually include someone else, or some other board.
I know people who like Baldur's Gate, but prefer Icewind Dale precicely because its built around party creation (which is a big difference).
I know people who hold Baldur's Gate in a higher regard than Shadows of Amn because of the first game had wider exploration.
I know people who flat out likes story heavy games and, therefore, holds Planescape in a much higher regard than the BG series.
Not to mention those who likes dialogue choice and intricate quest design, which puts them in a position to like Arcanum and Dragon Age more.
I know people who can't stand Baldur's Gate because of the RTwP game design.
I know people who like Baldur's Gate because of the story.
I know people who don't really like BG's story because of the Realms setting (which he finds a bit too generic) but do appreciate the encounter design of Shadows of Amn (making BG the first game seemingly 'unpolished' to his eyes).
The list goes on because people are different.
TL;DR: Taste is subjective, nothing is perfect.
Most games which offer a similar playtime (for example, TES series) are a bit on the short side when it comes to story quality. However, Baldur's Gate and its successor offer a really long and intriguing storyline. You never got that much bang for your buck after the release of ToB. Damn, in the end of ToB I even noticed a tear in my face - something that never happened to me with other games.
This is evident in my top 4 Series (Please note that I say series and not game because I play very few games that aren't part of a series)
1. Baldur's Gate
2. Mass Effect
3. Dragon Age
4. Icewind Dale
That said there are still many fantasy games I've never been able to play or try. For example I owned KoTOR and KoTOR 2 but even though I have a computer that can run them now the games themselves don't work at this point. I've also never played The Witcher or The Witcher 2 even though I've heard they're fantastic. Personally I didn't enjoy morrowwind, and although I picked up Oblivion right before skyrim released cause it was only like 5 dollars I haven't played it. Nor have I picked up Skyrim yet. These are just personally what I feel are my favorite series. While the space between 1 and 2 isn't that large, the space between Mass Effect and Dragon Age is a large gap. Still I don't think I'll be running through ME1-3 once per year like I was doing for BG and BG2 even before the Enhanced Editions were announced.
Ultima 7 And Ultima 7 Part 2: Serpent Isle will always stay close to my heart
I haven't played Ultima, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Skyrim, etc. Never played any MMORPGs such as Everquest or WoW either.
Since it is ultimately a matter of taste imho, I can only speak to what I personally like:
From what I've sampled, I have the strongest affinity, far and away, for the Forgotten Realms and the BG series use of AD&D 2nd ed. The other fantasy settings I've looked at haven't grabbed me. Their combat systems did nothing for me either.
So with the BG series, the setting and the combat system are precisely where I want to be.
In terms of graphics, I actually prefer the BGT series' 2D isometric gameworld. As I've said this before in other threads, when I'm playing a game with more modern 3D graphics I'm continually reminded of the simulation of physical reality in characters' facial expressions and movements. For me that works against immersion. In contrast, in the BG series there is no pretense towards a simulation of physical reality. You are playing a game. And the game is fantastic.
The only real shortcoming of the BG series for me is that the humanoid creature animations should have been rendered in considerably more detail. They're pretty scruffy. It's the one thing I wish Beamdog could have re-rendered for the EEs. But my guess is that even if they could have afforded to do that (doubtful), the contrast with the other graphics then probably wouldn't read right.