Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Opinion of Cleric/Rangers

1246789

Comments

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,684
    No

    Lets see what the Devs team think of that.

    That would be a surprise to be seen :)! It's about time for a detailed and official change list be launched, as 400 enhancements are a bit generic for my taste.

  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    No
    I'm more curious as to find out how many of the No vote play it because of the Druid Spell list access and how many of the Yes vote actually play Ranger\Clerics or want to play them but wont because of the issue.

  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    Xavioria said:

    I'm actually a bit confused at this point, because I'm not sure what the actual issue is anymore. Is the problem that rules aren't being followed, or is it a balance issue?

    Iron Skins and Creeping doom. They make a significant difference and he is not supposed to get them.

    Brude
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,684
    No
    Doesn't should be ok for a ranger/druid dual class/multi-class exist? Cos we have fighter/druid, and ranger/druid has a lot more compatibility than fighter/druid.

  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    No
    And that effects you as a player how?

    Flashburn
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited August 2012
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    Jolanthus said:

    And that effects you as a player how?

    That's the argument? It doesn't affect me so i should look the other way?

    If you want an answer however, then it makes me prefer the cleric/ranger over fighter/cleric, or even fighter/druid, because he's doing both their jobs better than them, at the same things.

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    No
    kamuizin said:

    Doesn't should be ok for a ranger/druid dual class/multi-class exist? Cos we have fighter/druid, and ranger/druid has a lot more compatibility than fighter/druid.

    Not possible in AD&D due to the alignment restrictions (which is kind of ridiculous when you think about it).

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,684
    No
    omg i forget it, AD&D rangers are good while druids are neutral. And yes i agree with you, restrict a ranger from dual/multi to/with druid is totally nosense.

    AD&D druid restrictions and structure always feel a little wrong, True neutral alignment was always a mistery for me, cos most of the druids i found in D&D PC plataform games are everything but balanced.

    But complain will not get us anywhere, so i will just wait for a mod that reduce the alignments restrictions for druids and rangers.

  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    edited August 2012
    No

    Jolanthus said:

    @chickenhed. A cleric can't dip into ranger class or vica versa.

    I''m unsure what you're saying here. Are we not talking about cleric ranger multiclass or ranger - cleric duals? Or are you pointing out that clerics cannot dual into rangers? I am aware of clerics not dualing to rangers. Which is why a ranger dualed to a cleric only "dips" into the ranger class as cleric gets most of the levels. Wording. Semantics. I'm sure my point got across regardless.

    EDIT: yes you can dual from cleric to ranger. My mistake.
    Apologies, It seems I was mistaken. Cleric is the only class that Rangers can Duel class with. Since I'd always wanted to play a ranger\mage(sorcerer) but couldn't I'd bever bothered with Duel classing again.

    Xavioria
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    No
    I would love to have a ranger dualed to Mage. Would make things interesting to say the least. I could see how that doesn't make any sense though

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    No
    My Beastmaster/Cleric was one of my favorite playthroughs of the Baldur's Gate series.

    Just saying.

    XavioriaRAM021
  • evil_apeevil_ape Member Posts: 32
    No
    Mornmagor said:

    Xavioria said:

    I'm actually a bit confused at this point, because I'm not sure what the actual issue is anymore. Is the problem that rules aren't being followed, or is it a balance issue?

    Iron Skins and Creeping doom. They make a significant difference and he is not supposed to get them.
    So, the issue is you using spells you do not want to use? As I have said before, this is actually a non-problem. People who think that the Ranger/Cleric should not be able to cast Druid spells above level 3 simply has to not memorize druid spells. I'm sorry, but this really seems like a problem of self-restraint to me.

    RAM021
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited August 2012
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    evil_ape said:

    Mornmagor said:

    Xavioria said:

    I'm actually a bit confused at this point, because I'm not sure what the actual issue is anymore. Is the problem that rules aren't being followed, or is it a balance issue?

    Iron Skins and Creeping doom. They make a significant difference and he is not supposed to get them.
    So, the issue is you using spells you do not want to use? As I have said before, this is actually a non-problem. People who think that the Ranger/Cleric should not be able to cast Druid spells above level 3 simply has to not memorize druid spells. I'm sorry, but this really seems like a problem of self-restraint to me.
    Oh i just love it when you guys try to prove the problem is actually with someone else.

    There is a bug in the game that allows a class to be stronger than other similar classes and thus, more appealing.

    So we fix it? No we let it stay, and if someone says otherwise we accuse him for lack of self-restraint, for wanting to play the overpowered class.

    -_-

    Post edited by Mornmagor on
  • beerflavourbeerflavour Member Posts: 116
    edited August 2012
    Yes, some other sort of change is needed to address this imbalance
    Actually there is more wrong with the cleric/ranger than simply the access to druid spells.

    The ranger spells, which are received after level 8 ranger, should not be cast with the cleric caster level. The additional ranger spell slots should be treated seperately (similar to IWD2).

    Post edited by beerflavour on
    XavioriaGriegDebaser
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited August 2012
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    Indeed, the ranger starts at level 8 or 9 to GET 1st level druid spells, where the cleric 9 / ranger 8 already has ironskins (5th level druid spell).

  • ManveruManveru Member Posts: 75
    No
    If you don't like it, don't play it. I've never played ranger-cleric, but would like to give it a try sometimes now we have a wild-mage NPC in the party

    RAM021
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,684
    No
    The don't like don't use isn't a excuse for anything, but as said before, i see balance in this unbalance :)!

    The block of ranger/druid due to alignment restriction i take as a break in AD&D rule set. I never tried by miself a ranger/cleric, but if the druid spell list is used the cleric spell list will be missed, therefore, globe of blades, finger of the death, animate death and other magics would be lost for this multi/dual class.

    It's a engine bug? Yes. It's overpower? No, just different.

    So should be fixed? I don't want (in fact i don't care too much about this), and i believe it's my right to vote as i want here, but of course some keeper of the rule will come here soon to flame me for this.

    So why don't ppl just vote and after a while we count the votes?



    MedillenXavioria
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    No
    @sandmanCCL that is very interesting that you played through with that class mixup. I'm actually very curious about that.
    Honestly I really don't see how two spells changes the entire course of the game, basically going from challenging to difficult because of iron skins and creeping doom? I do see the point of the rule set being incorrect, but at the same time instead of saying "take it away" why can't a practical solution be found to this "issue"?

    It was mentioned by @Jolanthus that he wondered how many people voted no because of the Druid spell list availability. I voted no for that exact reason, I have played this class before because I liked that perk the most, I'll admit it. However, now you really do have to ask yourself why this debate is going on. There is no pvp, no npcs with that class, and to top that all off, it is not unbalancing to the point of being overpowered; this class can be beaten by any number of other classes.

    I guess I'm mostly curious as to exactly what people are trying to accomplish. Are those of you that are trying to fix the rule set trying to play this class?

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,309
    I have yet to try this combo. Sounds a bit overpowered for my tastes, though.

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    No
    Xavioria said:

    @sandmanCCL that is very interesting that you played through with that class mixup. I'm actually very curious about that.
    Honestly I really don't see how two spells changes the entire course of the game, basically going from challenging to difficult because of iron skins and creeping doom? I do see the point of the rule set being incorrect, but at the same time instead of saying "take it away" why can't a practical solution be found to this "issue"?

    It was mentioned by @Jolanthus that he wondered how many people voted no because of the Druid spell list availability. I voted no for that exact reason, I have played this class before because I liked that perk the most, I'll admit it. However, now you really do have to ask yourself why this debate is going on. There is no pvp, no npcs with that class, and to top that all off, it is not unbalancing to the point of being overpowered; this class can be beaten by any number of other classes.

    I guess I'm mostly curious as to exactly what people are trying to accomplish. Are those of you that are trying to fix the rule set trying to play this class?

    If you get Beast Master to level 12 I think it is, you gain Beastmaster's version of Summon Animal III usable as a 3rd level Cleric spell. By the time you get 6th circle Cleric spells, you can put summon animal as literally every available spell. It's one of the more hilarious builds, but you're limited to clubs, quarterstaves and slings. It's pretty good as a solo build, honestly. Lots of meatshields to help tank for you.

    You need a pretty monster roll in order for it to work, though. Have to have 17s in Strength, Constitution and Wisdom bare minimum. Rangers also have really high minimum dex, cha and int scores if memory serves, so there isn't a really viable dump stat. Not that you'd dump Dexterity anyway as it's easily the most important stat in the game.

    I kind of agree with you about all the stink being made of it. It's hardly overpowered. A solid cleric, a solid druid, or any sort of fighter/cleric/druid is probably better in the long run or at least equally viable.

    The sheer amount of "overpowered" and "gamebreaking" builds you can utilize in D&D make this kind of a moot point. Is it how it's supposed to work in AD&D? No. But a bard is more useful than gimped fighter with cleric/druid spells. So who cares?

    XavioriaRAM021
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    No
    That build is actually very interesting, and I might play around with it a bit. And honestly, it's no more overpowered than kensai/Mage or kensai/thief or sorcerer. Iron skins is easily removed with a simple spell and bypassed by other things. This makes the class a great defensive fighter which is awesome, but hardly soooooo overpowering.

  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    A Simple death spell dispells all your summons :D

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,684
    edited August 2012
    No
    An question, i never try this before:

    The cleric spell death ward cast on an summoned creature would make it immune to death spell? Or at least shoud (and don't do it due to game engines)?

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    No
    @Xavioria

    Honestly I recommend it only if you go with a smaller party. Else you'll just be a gimped warrior-ish guy. I ran with a full party of 6 when I used him and eventually I just mindlessly slung bullets with him because of how quickly I dismantled most fights. Still, it was a lot of fun for the first while right after I regained my ranger levels. So many wolves!

    I wanted to do a Stalker/Cleric but then I realized the only items you could backstab with would be clubs and quarterstaves so it kind of defeats the purpose. Plus you'd have to murder Drizzt in order to get worthwhile armor and doing so almost always makes you lose your Ranger levels.

  • beerflavourbeerflavour Member Posts: 116
    Yes, some other sort of change is needed to address this imbalance
    I can understand why certain things were implemented as they are. Implementation is just simpler that way. While it doesn't affect anyone else due to BG being a single player game it's still not adhering to the rules. Even if a player imposes some additional rules for his own play sessions he/she cannot avoid all side effects of previous implementation decisions.

  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669

    Actually there is more wrong with the cleric/ranger than simply the access to druid spells.

    The ranger spells, which are received after level 8 ranger, should not be cast with the cleric caster level. The additional ranger spell slots should be treated seperately (similar to IWD2).

    @Beerflavour is right. My favorite play through ever was with a Cleric / Ranger Multi-Class Half Elf...but the spell system was undeniably very versatile and powerful. I feel it's kind of one of those game mechanic things that wasn't handled entirely correctly. Spells like Cure Light Wounds would obviously be available to both classes, but I kind of feel that for every spell casting class you take and combine maybe an entirely different spell book should be included on your control bar, so the variance in spell level per level and power for each class can be maintained and differentiated.

    Brude
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    Missed this discussion the first time around.

    I'm not surprised so many people voted "No," since the question more or less translates to "Do you want this multi-class to become *less* capable?".

    I love the idea of this class, but I've never played it because it seems broken, like rolling it would feel as if I were intentionally cheesing the game.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    It's a broken combination. Against the rules even. ^-^ Should be fixed for that reason alone.

    Playing hardcore is one thing. Playing hardcore with a sizeable advantage is quite another. :3 There's almost no point at that point. X3

    That said, I've never made a cleric/ranger and there are no RPCs of the class either. If it's not fixed in the EE version, I'll just keep, um, not using them. n.n

    BrudeGrieg
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    Is there still no official answer on this?

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,235
    Yes, at their maximum level Cleric/Ranger's should only be able to learn up to level 3 Druid spells along with all Cleric spells (including Cleric and Ranger hla's)
    I've heard nothing.

Sign In or Register to comment.