Play some counterstrike comeptiviely or cod or just about any team multiplayer game with a female friend of yours and have them use voice chat or a female name. Its litteraly makes you think we are still in the 14th century. It has to stop. Its damaging. Dont downplay it. Its not just what is said but its also the sheer volume of hate that is so damaging.
Go play a few hours of cs go with a female friend. Its $15 a copy and buy a microphone... if you think youre right and its being blown out of proportion, go play. We will wait...
Im bi, my friend is female and black. We rarely go a match a public game without hearing [f word deragatory to gay people], the n word and sexism multiple times or have our own team hit a hat trick for all three in a sentense.... god help you if youre middle eastern.
The reason why this also matters is because its reflective (although not a direct representation) of how women are being verbally harrased in some instances in society (western as well as eastern). Its a problem.
I've heard something here and there about gamergate but I don't really get the whole picture, nor do I care too. It just makes me think that "gamers" are a bunch of drama queens who take things way to seriously. It is entertainment. It is supposed to be fun.
Seiously. Who. Cares? Everyone is arguing over a form of entertainment that involves pressing buttons to control the actions of cartoon characters. Millions of real, serious issues in the world and people get their panties all up in a bunch over entertainment. Sheesh.
Youve obvioisly never been repeatedly verbally harrased, abused in any way, or lost someone due to suicide...
I want to party when i play games. Not have myself, my friends verbaly harrassed or be threatened or in extreeme circumstances be hacked.
Everytime I see someone yelling at other people for whatever reason, I usually just turn that against them to make them concentrate more on yelling and complaining than the game so they end up being useless to their team...
You don't even need to be a girl to get shit in an FPS game... All you need to do is be better than someone and they'll start screaming about how you're a cheating noob and how they slept with your mom...
So unless you have a genre that isn't mostly filled with drooling idiot where the people are a problem... Go ahead and suggest them.
Edit: And while I personally haven't played counter-strike for years, I did however have the displeasure of having to listen to people while playing call of duty... Makes you feel old when the majority is crying like a bunch of babies...
@Kaltzor exactly right on several points. Cs and l4d become more difficult enviornments because of the strong need for teamwork and communication to be successful. When communication, a vital part of the game and a necessity to play on competitive, vreaks down and turns into harassment its not about someone being a drama queen or being sensitive. it turns into ruining the game, ruining someones self esteeme for no reason or even making them feel threatened. Its wrong and not ok. It almost always gets noticably worse for women though. They are harrassed or very least bothered more than a would be cheater about 50% of the time for no reason.
Well see that is the point I was trying to make. If everyone treated each other how everyone on this forum treats each other (with a few exceptions), more than just gaming would be better. Everyone needs to just start acting right, work hard, treat you fellow humans with respect and everyone would be better for it.
For critics: we arent saying it should be all singing kombyah and hugging. People are still dicks in public and im not expecting that to stop. Ive been called some strange things in public but most of the time i dont see people going up to random strangers and call them racial slurs or say sexist comments repeatedly while screaming in their ear and following them around for 45 minutes verbally tearing their existance apart for every word they speak and move they make. Thats the difference. Thats the difference between how people behave in public and in "public lobbies/games".
Youve obvioisly never been repeatedly verbally harrased, abused in any way, or lost someone due to suicide...
Saying things like this makes you no better than the people you hate.
If your friend is getting so much grief why does she keep playing? If it truly bothered her she'd atleast stop using teamspeak. But I reckon it bothers you more than it bothers her...
Face it... the internet is not a nice place, and it's not gonna suddenly change because a few people get upset. You have to learn to ignore the bad apples or change how you do things. Such as only playing games with trusted friends, don't use teamspeak with strangers, and don't post anything online unless you can handle some "harassment" or criticism.
And this might come as a suprise to some people... but women aren't made out of egg shells and they don't need protecting all the time. They can troll, grief, and flirt just like everyone else. It's shocking, I know! If I was a woman I'd be annoyed at threads like this.
@booinyoureyes is right, too many drama queens these days.
I've heard something here and there about gamergate but I don't really get the whole picture, nor do I care too. It just makes me think that "gamers" are a bunch of drama queens who take things way to seriously. It is entertainment. It is supposed to be fun.
Seiously. Who. Cares? Everyone is arguing over a form of entertainment that involves pressing buttons to control the actions of cartoon characters. Millions of real, serious issues in the world and people get their panties all up in a bunch over entertainment. Sheesh.
Youve obvioisly never been repeatedly verbally harrased, abused in any way, or lost someone due to suicide...
I want to party when i play games. Not have myself, my friends verbaly harrassed or be threatened or in extreeme circumstances be hacked.
uh... did you not read what I wrote? People getting upset and verbally harassing people over their freaking entertainment is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
I do think it might be unfortunate that some people who were seriously concerned about journalistic integrity and not being jerks (which I'm sure exist on both sides, just like in everything else) are now not getting their message heard because people are concentrating on the angriest in the mob.
This kind of "journalists helping their friends" isn't exclusive to videogames... it happens in all news. Other entertainment news systems have the same problems. I know from experience that in sports journalists look out for their athlete friends who give them exclusive interviews. Even in actually important journalism this happens. Every influential politician and political party have their own hacks planted in various news outlets.
So I understand that it can be a real concern, but come on... its videogames. No need to rage about women and stuff, it just distracts people from the initial purpose. Also, people on the other side shouldn't just see the crazies screaming about women and stuff and use that as an excuse not to listen to the other side's points about journalism. That can be awfully convenient cover for people who are actually part of the corruption in game journalism.
Overall I just find it absurd how angry people can get over their entertainment as opposed to other concerns. I feel bad to use the whole "gamer stereotype" but most people who I know who talk about this stuff on Facebook and elsewhere are unmotivated, underemployed or have other problems, yet are upset about Gamergate. Just seems to be a classic case of First World Problems.
Youve obvioisly never been repeatedly verbally harrased, abused in any way, or lost someone due to suicide...
Saying things like this makes you no better than the people you hate.
If your friend is getting so much grief why does she keep playing? If it truly bothered her she'd atleast stop using teamspeak. But I reckon it bothers you more than it bothers her...
Face it... the internet is not a nice place, and it's not gonna suddenly change because a few people get upset. You have to learn to ignore the bad apples or change how you do things. Such as only playing games with trusted friends, don't use teamspeak with strangers, and don't post anything online unless you can handle some "harassment" or criticism.
And this might come as a suprise to some people... but women aren't made out of egg shells and they don't need protecting all the time. They can troll, grief, and flirt just like everyone else. It's shocking, I know! If I was a woman I'd be annoyed at threads like this.
@booinyoureyes is right, too many drama queens these days.
Yeah, those wimmins should stay barefoot in the kitchen and stop complaining about not being allowed to vote, or file for divorce, etc. Also? Those damn blacks should be HAPPY we give them food to pick cotton ehile we force ourselves on their women!
Your attitude of 'just do what entitled pricks want' is very much part of the problem. People shouldn't have to ignore racism, prejudice, or other harassment. They sure as **** shouldn't be told they don't have the right to use teamspeak.
If it was just games I suppose it would be easier to overlook, but harassment of people for race, creed, gender etc is a known systemic issue the world over. It won't go away if people don't make it an issue.
That said, journalistic integrity hasn't been brought up in a productive way anywhere I've seen, but I've seen it used as a shield for bigotry.
That said, journalistic integrity hasn't been brought up in a productive way anywhere I've seen, but I've seen it used as a shield for bigotry.
Probably true, but I also suspect that many bring up bigotry as a shield for lack of journalistic integrity.
Okay, so I read a few articles about "gamergate" (that name just sounds so silly) after seeing so many people upset about it. From what I've seen it is pretty clear that there is a hefty amount of... pscycho-sexism among gamers. At the same time, I think it is a bad idea to stereotype someone who is a part of "gamergate" as a misogynistic jerk. Like when Dee said
I think if 80% of your movement is using that movement to actively persecute a group of people based entirely on their gender, you need to take a closer look at what your movement is really about.
the key aspect that I think he might be ignoring is the part where he wrote "using the movement to". Just because there are a lot of jerks on one side does not automatically discredit it, and from what I can see the core issue of the gamergate people when they started out had nothing to do with women in gaming. There probably are a lot of people who sincerely care about integrity in "gaming journalism" who aren't misogynists and probably find it very frustrating that anything they say in regards to this issue is dismissed because at some time, somewhere, someone else who was a jerk happened to agree with them on this one issue.
Play some counterstrike comeptiviely or cod or just about any team multiplayer game with a female friend of yours and have them use voice chat or a female name. Its litteraly makes you think we are still in the 14th century. It has to stop. Its damaging. Dont downplay it. Its not just what is said but its also the sheer volume of hate that is so damaging.
Go play a few hours of cs go with a female friend. Its $15 a copy and buy a microphone... if you think youre right and its being blown out of proportion, go play. We will wait...
Im bi, my friend is female and black. We rarely go a match a public game without hearing [f word deragatory to gay people], the n word and sexism multiple times or have our own team hit a hat trick for all three in a sentense.... god help you if youre middle eastern.
The reason why this also matters is because its reflective (although not a direct representation) of how women are being verbally harrased in some instances in society (western as well as eastern). Its a problem.
I agree with everything here except the last paragraph.
Being anonymous fuels these statements more than anything else and it isn't reflective in how they treat women in society, but probably the exact opposite. Afraid to approach or talk or have any communication what so ever with the opposite sex.
I also feel it is up to the content providers to take action against this type of behaviour. Banning accounts on the spot for this type of language will be the only way people will learn. Repercussions for their actions.
And any type of movement on Twitter has the chance of being taken over by something else. There is no control to it.
Youve obvioisly never been repeatedly verbally harrased, abused in any way, or lost someone due to suicide...
Saying things like this makes you no better than the people you hate.
If your friend is getting so much grief why does she keep playing? If it truly bothered her she'd atleast stop using teamspeak. But I reckon it bothers you more than it bothers her...
Face it... the internet is not a nice place, and it's not gonna suddenly change because a few people get upset. You have to learn to ignore the bad apples or change how you do things. Such as only playing games with trusted friends, don't use teamspeak with strangers, and don't post anything online unless you can handle some "harassment" or criticism.
And this might come as a suprise to some people... but women aren't made out of egg shells and they don't need protecting all the time. They can troll, grief, and flirt just like everyone else. It's shocking, I know! If I was a woman I'd be annoyed at threads like this.
@booinyoureyes is right, too many drama queens these days.
Yeah, those wimmins should stay barefoot in the kitchen and stop complaining about not being allowed to vote, or file for divorce, etc. Also? Those damn blacks should be HAPPY we give them food to pick cotton ehile we force ourselves on their women!
Your attitude of 'just do what entitled pricks want' is very much part of the problem. People shouldn't have to ignore racism, prejudice, or other harassment. They sure as **** shouldn't be told they don't have the right to use teamspeak.
If it was just games I suppose it would be easier to overlook, but harassment of people for race, creed, gender etc is a known systemic issue the world over. It won't go away if people don't make it an issue.
That said, journalistic integrity hasn't been brought up in a productive way anywhere I've seen, but I've seen it used as a shield for bigotry.
Where in my post did I mention race or forcing myself on women? I tell people to get real and use common sense, because the internet is not going to change for YOU, that would make YOU the "entitled prick" for expecting such a thing.
Real life: You keep getting your ass kicked at the biker bar? You stop going! Entitled prick: You keep getting your ass kicked at the biker bar? You cry and whine and expect everybody to change just for you... awww.
Seriously, some of you whiners make me sick. Making such a big deal out of a few greasy teens leaving a few bad comments. There's not a damn thing stopping women from making games, movies, whatever. The only thing holding them back are coddling threads like this.
But yeah, I'm the knuckle-dragging bad guy for speaking the truth.
You're confusing whining with arguing. But even while arguing I try to stay respectful and composed, even though I have no reason to anymore in this thread. Scroll up and you'll see I've been called a prick, a racist, a woman abuser, and whatever else. And now you're trying to troll me... but I respect that you called me out and said what you think.
I have plenty of reason to whine, because I know what real abuse is, and it's not a few teens giggling as they threaten you over a game... Some of you people must have lived very sheltered lives, and I bet most of what you know is learned from crappy facebook, tweeter, and people like Charlie Brooker... so I can't really blame you for living in fantasy land.
In the real world women don't need white knights and dumb GamerGate crusades. Women can stick up for themselves and there is nothing(NOTHING) stopping them from working in the games industry and creating games they want.
Youve obvioisly never been repeatedly verbally harrased, abused in any way, or lost someone due to suicide...
Saying things like this makes you no better than the people you hate.
If your friend is getting so much grief why does she keep playing? If it truly bothered her she'd atleast stop using teamspeak. But I reckon it bothers you more than it bothers her...
Face it... the internet is not a nice place, and it's not gonna suddenly change because a few people get upset. You have to learn to ignore the bad apples or change how you do things. Such as only playing games with trusted friends, don't use teamspeak with strangers, and don't post anything online unless you can handle some "harassment" or criticism.
And this might come as a suprise to some people... but women aren't made out of egg shells and they don't need protecting all the time. They can troll, grief, and flirt just like everyone else. It's shocking, I know! If I was a woman I'd be annoyed at threads like this.
@booinyoureyes is right, too many drama queens these days.
Yeah, those wimmins should stay barefoot in the kitchen and stop complaining about not being allowed to vote, or file for divorce, etc. Also? Those damn blacks should be HAPPY we give them food to pick cotton ehile we force ourselves on their women!
Your attitude of 'just do what entitled pricks want' is very much part of the problem. People shouldn't have to ignore racism, prejudice, or other harassment. They sure as **** shouldn't be told they don't have the right to use teamspeak.
If it was just games I suppose it would be easier to overlook, but harassment of people for race, creed, gender etc is a known systemic issue the world over. It won't go away if people don't make it an issue.
That said, journalistic integrity hasn't been brought up in a productive way anywhere I've seen, but I've seen it used as a shield for bigotry.
Where in my post did I mention race or forcing myself on women? I tell people to get real and use common sense, because the internet is not going to change for YOU, that would make YOU the "entitled prick" for expecting such a thing.
Real life: You keep getting your ass kicked at the biker bar? You stop going! Entitled prick: You keep getting your ass kicked at the biker bar? You cry and whine and expect everybody to change just for you... awww.
Seriously, some of you whiners make me sick. Making such a big deal out of a few greasy teens leaving a few bad comments. There's not a damn thing stopping women from making games, movies, whatever. The only thing holding them back are coddling threads like this.
But yeah, I'm the knuckle-dragging bad guy for speaking the truth.
Maybe you're not bright enough to read the VERY CLEAR label of sarcasm I put in there?? I'm showing you why your 'logic' is basically being an entitled, prissy little baby, expecting women to either accept (for no reason) being treated substantially worse. This reasoning was stupid horse**** when people used it to defend slavery and disenfranchisement in the past, and its even less effective now. Systemic discrimination is effed up, and only a sad, overprivilidged turd would disagree.
Damn ****ing right the internet will be dragged kicking, whinning and screaming into the light. Guess what? There is no more annonymity online, none. For anyone. You break a law online or offline, you still broke the law, and yep, hate speech is illegal! Death threats? Very illegal! The 'wild west' has been settled for years, and your kind are too dumb to have noticed you are beholden to the law now. Whine about it if you want, won't change the law.
No, being a sane person I'd press charges. *shrug* I don't have things to lose. I generally don't go to bars, I prefer to drink with friends or alone,if I feel like drinking. Bad music and skanky women aren't my thing, so I have found pretty easily that I have no reason to go to clubs ever, and most bars are pretty boring. I worked as a bouncer actually, might have soured me on bars. I probably wouldn't stand out that bad at a biker bar, other than my propensity for tucked shirts. Very much a stalky farmer/metal worker.
Yep, nothing like 'not getting hired, not getting promoted after being hired, being groped/verbally harassed, not getting funding for projects, having your douchey ex boyfriend post half-baked garbage that resulted in Gamergate...' will ever be a problem for women. Totally!
The fact that you drag your knuckled doesn't make you bad, the fact that you THINK you're speaking the truth isn't what makes you bad, its that you think discrimination is okay: thats what makes you bad. That and willful ignorance.
the key aspect that I think he might be ignoring is the part where he wrote "using the movement to". Just because there are a lot of jerks on one side does not automatically discredit it, and from what I can see the core issue of the gamergate people when they started out had nothing to do with women in gaming. There probably are a lot of people who sincerely care about integrity in "gaming journalism" who aren't misogynists and probably find it very frustrating that anything they say in regards to this issue is dismissed because at some time, somewhere, someone else who was a jerk happened to agree with them on this one issue.
I...politely disagree. I think it says a lot about the integrity and character of a movement if over half of their comments are reduced to name-calling and harassment. Think about it: would you ever take someone seriously if they were yelling and screaming at you? I've read several articles and comments of people whose views I agree with, but I just could not stand by them because their writing was riddled with pointless foul language, screaming capital letters, bad grammar, and outright flaming of the other side.
Even if there is a real issue at the heart of GamerGate, if they can't haul their people in line and start respecting others, then I see no reason to respect them either. And I know how hard that is--you can't rightly just control who uses your hashtag and what writing they pair with it. If there is something more to GamerGate, and if there are people who are genuinely concerned about journalism ethics in gaming, then what they need to do is stand up to the misogynists in their ranks. Let the bigots know that their perspective is disrespectful, does not represent GamerGate's views, and will not be tolerated within the movement. Feminists do this all the time within their own ranks; why GamerGate can't bring itself to do the same is beyond me.
@Nonnahswriter I don't see why you are treating Gamergate as if it is an organized movement with some kind of hierarchy. From what I see there is no Supreme Chairman ofInternational Council of Gamergate that can get people in line. Everything I've read says it is a spontaneous internet movement with little to no organization.
Also, are you even sure that there aren't people actually concerned who actually try to distance themselves from crazies? I mean, to be fair I haven't seen any myself with my limited experience, but what you, Dee, DreadKhan and others are saying on this thread is basically going by the classic Islamaphobe reasoning that goes "if Islam is a peaceful religion, then why don't the moderate Muslims denounce the radicals? Since they don't, then clearly Islam is a religion of violence"... when in reality there are plenty of moderate Muslims who denounce violence in the name of their religion every day, they just don't hear them and assume they don't exist.
I try not to look at a bunch of people on the internet as a "movement" and just try to view individuals on a case by case basis. What a lot of people here are doing is passing judgement before even having the facts because of someone's associations... in many cases with "associates" whom they have never met or spoken to but just happen to be assholes on the internet who agree with them on one issue (or maybe not even that... just use the same hashtag!)
@Nonnahswriter I don't see why you are treating Gamergate as if it is an organized movement with some kind of hierarchy. From what I see there is no Supreme Chairman ofInternational Council of Gamergate that can get people in line. Everything I've read says it is a spontaneous internet movement with little to no organization.
Also, are you even sure that there aren't people actually concerned who actually try to distance themselves from crazies? I mean, to be fair I haven't seen any myself with my limited experience, but what you, Dee, DreadKhan and others are saying on this thread is basically going by the classic Islamaphobe reasoning that goes "if Islam is a peaceful religion, then why don't the moderate Muslims denounce the radicals? Since they don't, then clearly Islam is a religion of violence"... when in reality there are plenty of moderate Muslims who denounce violence in the name of their religion every day, they just don't hear them and assume they don't exist.
I try not to look at a bunch of people on the internet as a "movement" and just try to view individuals on a case by case basis. What a lot of people here are doing is passing judgement before even having the facts because of someone's associations... in many cases with "associates" whom they have never met or spoken to but just happen to be assholes on the internet who agree with them on one issue (or maybe not even that... just use the same hashtag!)
As far as I can tell, there is one "leader" so to speak, the person who started the blog post and sort of "sparked" the hashtag. After that, everyone else just jumped on board, and unfortunately, invited a lot--and we mean a lot--of unsavory people in. So yes, there's not much in the way of organization. You could say that their lack of organization could be part of the problem, but I guess that's to be expected with twitter feeds.
I admit that I do get defensive and lean against the GamerGate hashtag, but that's mostly because I'm a pretty sensitive lady, and I feel that a lot of the attacks could have been directed at me, or my friends, or anyone else who happens to share my sex and my opinion. I feel this way every time I think about first-person-shooters like Call of Duty, or highly competitive, team-oriented online games like League of Legends. I feel it every time Anita or another feminist journalist feels she must flee her home because of the sheer amount of death and rape threats she receives. I think to myself, "This shouldn't be happening. That could have been me. We have to stop this before it gets out of hand, or someone could get really hurt."
I guess my point is that while I think that there are probably some unfortunate individuals who really do have concerns about gaming journalism and want to believe that GamerGate is a good thing, they are not the ones who have had their safety repeatedly threatened and their names dragged through the mud. Well... Maybe they have had their names dirtied by being associated with the many asshats using the same hashtag as them. I dunno. Weird metaphor. But you get my point, right? It's moving the conversation away from those whose lives are deeply affected and pointing a "Not All GamerGate Enthusiasts!" sign in the air; well, yeah, that may be true, but just coming out and saying so isn't going to stop the misogyny or make people like me feel any safer.
But, it's after midnight where I live, and I'm tired. All I really wanted was to move the subject away from the mess up top. So I thank you, @booinyoureyes, for speaking with me and helping me do just that. ^_^
I thought that this Wikipedia entry was pretty useful for trying to understand what Gamergate, is.
The Gamergate controversy began in August 2014 and concerns misogyny and harassment in video game culture. Some supporters of the self-described Gamergate movement (sometimes referred to as the hashtag #gamergate) state that they are concerned about ethical issues in video game journalism. Commentators and critics have stated that the movement is rooted in a culture war against women and the diversification of gaming culture.
The controversy began after indie game developer Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend alleged that Quinn had a romantic relationship with a journalist for the video game news site Kotaku. This led to harassment of Quinn, including false accusations that the relationship had led to positive coverage of Quinn's game. The conflict escalated when a number of gaming industry employees supportive of Quinn were subjected to harassment, threats of violence, and doxxing, leading some to flee their homes. The targets were mostly women, and included Quinn, feminist media critic Anita Sarkeesian, and indie game developer Brianna Wu. The harassment came from social media users, particularly those from 4chan and Reddit using the #gamergate hashtag. It was condemned by international media sources as anti-feminist,[1] and heightened discussion of sexism and misogyny in the gaming community.
Maybe you're not bright enough to read the VERY CLEAR label of sarcasm I put in there?? I'm showing you why your 'logic' is basically being an entitled, prissy little baby, expecting women to either accept (for no reason) being treated substantially worse. This reasoning was stupid horse**** when people used it to defend slavery and disenfranchisement in the past, and its even less effective now. Systemic discrimination is effed up, and only a sad, overprivilidged turd would disagree.
Damn ****ing right the internet will be dragged kicking, whinning and screaming into the light. Guess what? There is no more annonymity online, none. For anyone. You break a law online or offline, you still broke the law, and yep, hate speech is illegal! Death threats? Very illegal! The 'wild west' has been settled for years, and your kind are too dumb to have noticed you are beholden to the law now. Whine about it if you want, won't change the law.
No, being a sane person I'd press charges. *shrug* I don't have things to lose. I generally don't go to bars, I prefer to drink with friends or alone,if I feel like drinking. Bad music and skanky women aren't my thing, so I have found pretty easily that I have no reason to go to clubs ever, and most bars are pretty boring. I worked as a bouncer actually, might have soured me on bars. I probably wouldn't stand out that bad at a biker bar, other than my propensity for tucked shirts. Very much a stalky farmer/metal worker.
Yep, nothing like 'not getting hired, not getting promoted after being hired, being groped/verbally harassed, not getting funding for projects, having your douchey ex boyfriend post half-baked garbage that resulted in Gamergate...' will ever be a problem for women. Totally!
The fact that you drag your knuckled doesn't make you bad, the fact that you THINK you're speaking the truth isn't what makes you bad, its that you think discrimination is okay: thats what makes you bad. That and willful ignorance.
What are you talking about? There's no "sarcasm labels" anywere. All I saw was you comparing me to racists and rapers because I don't agree with GamerGate... Sarcasm or not, it was uncalled for.
And I'm not telling women to accept it, I'm just telling women AND MEN to toughen up and stop letting a few empty threats stop them from doing what they want. You said yourself there's LAWS and no law is stopping them from achieving their goals. But somehow this makes me the whiny, entitled, prissy little baby for saying so... Okie dokie! You sure like throwing insults around.
And comparing a few butthurt gamers to slavery makes you look... far worse than me.
I don't go around making death threats, I don't use hate speech, and I haven't broken any laws for years. I just have a different opinion about a silly gamer movement... and for some reason this makes me the worst kind of person? Where's the logic in that? Is it so hard to be calm and rational? I guess it's just easier to call me a bunch of silly names, which goes against what you're actually fighting for... Or do you even know what you're fighting for? Even the great Charlie Brooker couldn't explain it.
Not going to read all of this (since there is a lot to take in here), but on the response of people being bullies online:
Everyone's more vocal behind a mic and keyboard. If it wasn't for the anonymity of being online, I don't think anyone would be as vocal to anyone (regardless of race/gender).
Comments
Go play a few hours of cs go with a female friend. Its $15 a copy and buy a microphone... if you think youre right and its being blown out of proportion, go play. We will wait...
Im bi, my friend is female and black. We rarely go a match a public game without hearing [f word deragatory to gay people], the n word and sexism multiple times or have our own team hit a hat trick for all three in a sentense.... god help you if youre middle eastern.
The reason why this also matters is because its reflective (although not a direct representation) of how women are being verbally harrased in some instances in society (western as well as eastern). Its a problem.
I want to party when i play games. Not have myself, my friends verbaly harrassed or be threatened or in extreeme circumstances be hacked.
You don't even need to be a girl to get shit in an FPS game... All you need to do is be better than someone and they'll start screaming about how you're a cheating noob and how they slept with your mom...
So unless you have a genre that isn't mostly filled with drooling idiot where the people are a problem... Go ahead and suggest them.
Edit: And while I personally haven't played counter-strike for years, I did however have the displeasure of having to listen to people while playing call of duty... Makes you feel old when the majority is crying like a bunch of babies...
It almost always gets noticably worse for women though. They are harrassed or very least bothered more than a would be cheater about 50% of the time for no reason.
If your friend is getting so much grief why does she keep playing? If it truly bothered her she'd atleast stop using teamspeak. But I reckon it bothers you more than it bothers her...
Face it... the internet is not a nice place, and it's not gonna suddenly change because a few people get upset. You have to learn to ignore the bad apples or change how you do things. Such as only playing games with trusted friends, don't use teamspeak with strangers, and don't post anything online unless you can handle some "harassment" or criticism.
And this might come as a suprise to some people... but women aren't made out of egg shells and they don't need protecting all the time. They can troll, grief, and flirt just like everyone else. It's shocking, I know! If I was a woman I'd be annoyed at threads like this.
@booinyoureyes is right, too many drama queens these days.
I do think it might be unfortunate that some people who were seriously concerned about journalistic integrity and not being jerks (which I'm sure exist on both sides, just like in everything else) are now not getting their message heard because people are concentrating on the angriest in the mob.
This kind of "journalists helping their friends" isn't exclusive to videogames... it happens in all news. Other entertainment news systems have the same problems. I know from experience that in sports journalists look out for their athlete friends who give them exclusive interviews. Even in actually important journalism this happens. Every influential politician and political party have their own hacks planted in various news outlets.
So I understand that it can be a real concern, but come on... its videogames. No need to rage about women and stuff, it just distracts people from the initial purpose. Also, people on the other side shouldn't just see the crazies screaming about women and stuff and use that as an excuse not to listen to the other side's points about journalism. That can be awfully convenient cover for people who are actually part of the corruption in game journalism.
Overall I just find it absurd how angry people can get over their entertainment as opposed to other concerns. I feel bad to use the whole "gamer stereotype" but most people who I know who talk about this stuff on Facebook and elsewhere are unmotivated, underemployed or have other problems, yet are upset about Gamergate. Just seems to be a classic case of First World Problems.
Your attitude of 'just do what entitled pricks want' is very much part of the problem. People shouldn't have to ignore racism, prejudice, or other harassment. They sure as **** shouldn't be told they don't have the right to use teamspeak.
If it was just games I suppose it would be easier to overlook, but harassment of people for race, creed, gender etc is a known systemic issue the world over. It won't go away if people don't make it an issue.
That said, journalistic integrity hasn't been brought up in a productive way anywhere I've seen, but I've seen it used as a shield for bigotry.
Okay, so I read a few articles about "gamergate" (that name just sounds so silly) after seeing so many people upset about it. From what I've seen it is pretty clear that there is a hefty amount of... pscycho-sexism among gamers. At the same time, I think it is a bad idea to stereotype someone who is a part of "gamergate" as a misogynistic jerk. Like when Dee said the key aspect that I think he might be ignoring is the part where he wrote "using the movement to". Just because there are a lot of jerks on one side does not automatically discredit it, and from what I can see the core issue of the gamergate people when they started out had nothing to do with women in gaming. There probably are a lot of people who sincerely care about integrity in "gaming journalism" who aren't misogynists and probably find it very frustrating that anything they say in regards to this issue is dismissed because at some time, somewhere, someone else who was a jerk happened to agree with them on this one issue.
Being anonymous fuels these statements more than anything else and it isn't reflective in how they treat women in society, but probably the exact opposite. Afraid to approach or talk or have any communication what so ever with the opposite sex.
I also feel it is up to the content providers to take action against this type of behaviour. Banning accounts on the spot for this type of language will be the only way people will learn. Repercussions for their actions.
And any type of movement on Twitter has the chance of being taken over by something else. There is no control to it.
Real life: You keep getting your ass kicked at the biker bar? You stop going!
Entitled prick: You keep getting your ass kicked at the biker bar? You cry and whine and expect everybody to change just for you... awww.
Seriously, some of you whiners make me sick. Making such a big deal out of a few greasy teens leaving a few bad comments. There's not a damn thing stopping women from making games, movies, whatever. The only thing holding them back are coddling threads like this.
But yeah, I'm the knuckle-dragging bad guy for speaking the truth.
I have plenty of reason to whine, because I know what real abuse is, and it's not a few teens giggling as they threaten you over a game... Some of you people must have lived very sheltered lives, and I bet most of what you know is learned from crappy facebook, tweeter, and people like Charlie Brooker... so I can't really blame you for living in fantasy land.
In the real world women don't need white knights and dumb GamerGate crusades. Women can stick up for themselves and there is nothing(NOTHING) stopping them from working in the games industry and creating games they want.
Why can't more people see this?
Damn ****ing right the internet will be dragged kicking, whinning and screaming into the light. Guess what? There is no more annonymity online, none. For anyone. You break a law online or offline, you still broke the law, and yep, hate speech is illegal! Death threats? Very illegal! The 'wild west' has been settled for years, and your kind are too dumb to have noticed you are beholden to the law now. Whine about it if you want, won't change the law.
No, being a sane person I'd press charges. *shrug* I don't have things to lose. I generally don't go to bars, I prefer to drink with friends or alone,if I feel like drinking. Bad music and skanky women aren't my thing, so I have found pretty easily that I have no reason to go to clubs ever, and most bars are pretty boring. I worked as a bouncer actually, might have soured me on bars. I probably wouldn't stand out that bad at a biker bar, other than my propensity for tucked shirts. Very much a stalky farmer/metal worker.
Yep, nothing like 'not getting hired, not getting promoted after being hired, being groped/verbally harassed, not getting funding for projects, having your douchey ex boyfriend post half-baked garbage that resulted in Gamergate...' will ever be a problem for women. Totally!
The fact that you drag your knuckled doesn't make you bad, the fact that you THINK you're speaking the truth isn't what makes you bad, its that you think discrimination is okay: thats what makes you bad. That and willful ignorance.
Even if there is a real issue at the heart of GamerGate, if they can't haul their people in line and start respecting others, then I see no reason to respect them either. And I know how hard that is--you can't rightly just control who uses your hashtag and what writing they pair with it. If there is something more to GamerGate, and if there are people who are genuinely concerned about journalism ethics in gaming, then what they need to do is stand up to the misogynists in their ranks. Let the bigots know that their perspective is disrespectful, does not represent GamerGate's views, and will not be tolerated within the movement. Feminists do this all the time within their own ranks; why GamerGate can't bring itself to do the same is beyond me.
Also, are you even sure that there aren't people actually concerned who actually try to distance themselves from crazies? I mean, to be fair I haven't seen any myself with my limited experience, but what you, Dee, DreadKhan and others are saying on this thread is basically going by the classic Islamaphobe reasoning that goes "if Islam is a peaceful religion, then why don't the moderate Muslims denounce the radicals? Since they don't, then clearly Islam is a religion of violence"... when in reality there are plenty of moderate Muslims who denounce violence in the name of their religion every day, they just don't hear them and assume they don't exist.
I try not to look at a bunch of people on the internet as a "movement" and just try to view individuals on a case by case basis. What a lot of people here are doing is passing judgement before even having the facts because of someone's associations... in many cases with "associates" whom they have never met or spoken to but just happen to be assholes on the internet who agree with them on one issue (or maybe not even that... just use the same hashtag!)
I admit that I do get defensive and lean against the GamerGate hashtag, but that's mostly because I'm a pretty sensitive lady, and I feel that a lot of the attacks could have been directed at me, or my friends, or anyone else who happens to share my sex and my opinion. I feel this way every time I think about first-person-shooters like Call of Duty, or highly competitive, team-oriented online games like League of Legends. I feel it every time Anita or another feminist journalist feels she must flee her home because of the sheer amount of death and rape threats she receives. I think to myself, "This shouldn't be happening. That could have been me. We have to stop this before it gets out of hand, or someone could get really hurt."
I guess my point is that while I think that there are probably some unfortunate individuals who really do have concerns about gaming journalism and want to believe that GamerGate is a good thing, they are not the ones who have had their safety repeatedly threatened and their names dragged through the mud. Well... Maybe they have had their names dirtied by being associated with the many asshats using the same hashtag as them. I dunno. Weird metaphor. But you get my point, right? It's moving the conversation away from those whose lives are deeply affected and pointing a "Not All GamerGate Enthusiasts!" sign in the air; well, yeah, that may be true, but just coming out and saying so isn't going to stop the misogyny or make people like me feel any safer.
But, it's after midnight where I live, and I'm tired. All I really wanted was to move the subject away from the mess up top. So I thank you, @booinyoureyes, for speaking with me and helping me do just that. ^_^
The Gamergate controversy began in August 2014 and concerns misogyny and harassment in video game culture. Some supporters of the self-described Gamergate movement (sometimes referred to as the hashtag #gamergate) state that they are concerned about ethical issues in video game journalism. Commentators and critics have stated that the movement is rooted in a culture war against women and the diversification of gaming culture.
The controversy began after indie game developer Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend alleged that Quinn had a romantic relationship with a journalist for the video game news site Kotaku. This led to harassment of Quinn, including false accusations that the relationship had led to positive coverage of Quinn's game. The conflict escalated when a number of gaming industry employees supportive of Quinn were subjected to harassment, threats of violence, and doxxing, leading some to flee their homes. The targets were mostly women, and included Quinn, feminist media critic Anita Sarkeesian, and indie game developer Brianna Wu. The harassment came from social media users, particularly those from 4chan and Reddit using the #gamergate hashtag. It was condemned by international media sources as anti-feminist,[1] and heightened discussion of sexism and misogyny in the gaming community.
And I'm not telling women to accept it, I'm just telling women AND MEN to toughen up and stop letting a few empty threats stop them from doing what they want. You said yourself there's LAWS and no law is stopping them from achieving their goals. But somehow this makes me the whiny, entitled, prissy little baby for saying so... Okie dokie! You sure like throwing insults around.
And comparing a few butthurt gamers to slavery makes you look... far worse than me.
I don't go around making death threats, I don't use hate speech, and I haven't broken any laws for years. I just have a different opinion about a silly gamer movement... and for some reason this makes me the worst kind of person? Where's the logic in that? Is it so hard to be calm and rational? I guess it's just easier to call me a bunch of silly names, which goes against what you're actually fighting for... Or do you even know what you're fighting for? Even the great Charlie Brooker couldn't explain it.
Not going to read all of this (since there is a lot to take in here), but on the response of people being bullies online:
Everyone's more vocal behind a mic and keyboard. If it wasn't for the anonymity of being online, I don't think anyone would be as vocal to anyone (regardless of race/gender).