Just beat BG2 for the first time! Thoughts and reflections within.
FD3SA
Member Posts: 17
Hello team, I'd just like to share that I beat BG2 SoA today. ToB awaits, but I'd like to share my story with this excellent community.
I first stumbled upon BG2 a very long time ago when I was but a youngling. I played the demo, which was Irenicus' dungeon, and instantly fell in love. I bought the game but after exiting Irenicus' dungeon I somewhat lost the immersion and atmosphere, and thus lost interest. [1]
With the release of the EEs, I picked both up and began my adventure yet again. The Black Pits was great as it allowed me to familiarize myself with the Infinity Engine and try all of the cool classes. It allowed me to try a vast number of class combinations quickly in rigorous situations to discover their strengths and weaknesses. The story was also extremely engaging, and the characters very memorable. An excellent addition all around.
BG1 was very engaging at the start with Sarevok's introduction, but having played all of Bioware's games, I can tell they were just beginning to refine their storytelling expertise. We don't see Sarevok at all till the very end of the game, which is a shame as he is a very interesting character. Most of BG1 is spent frolicking in the country side looking for adventure, and is by no means a quest to avenge Gorion and understand Sarevok, which I believe would have worked better. I also found that revealing my ancestry was a bit anti-climatic, as it was Gorion's note that told the full story. Perhaps Sarevok should have been the one to reveal this crucial detail? Regardless, it was a great adventure, though somewhat too focused on the politics of iron and the Sword Coast. A personal touch with the politics in the background (e.g. Irenicus) would have perhaps worked better.
Enter BG2. I still love Irenicus dungeon, and not just for the nostaliga. Just incredible atmosphere as I elaborate on below. After exiting however, I was once again hit with a loss of purpose and was overwhelmed with the sheer size of Athkatla and the frequency with which I was approached by strangers with quests that sounded fun but had little to do with my tracking of Irenicus and Imoen. I did play the game more casually during this time, as I slowly worked my way through all of the stronghold quests. I learned to enjoy them after encountering and defeating Firkraag (to the delight of Keldorn!). Once I'd finished all the stronghold quests and talked to Gaelan Bayle, the game once again ripped along at a furious pace. Spellhold was excellent. I particularly enjoyed the Underdark, as I have a morbid fascination with my fallen brethren and their mad devotion to their chief tormentor, Lolth. I was so caught up with aiding my elven compatriots at Suldanesselar that I forgot to return to Athkatla one last time to forge Crom Faeyr and defeat Kangaxx.
The final two encounters with Irenicus were interesting. He was far from the demi-god I had witnessed in the dungeon and Waukeen's promenade. He did slay me at our first encounter both times, but that was due to my morbid desire to see the extent of his true power, which resulted in me autoattacking and witnessing his magical onslaught, to the dismay of my companions.
All in all, an excellent game. The Enhanced Edition and slight mods and were required for me, as my lack of meta-game knowledge made certain things very annoying. For example, I CLUA'ed in a bottomless bag of holding right at the start, because I was unsure what documents and keys I needed to keep. I also allowed expanded dual and multi-class options, as for roleplay reasons I prefer to play as an Elf but also wish to dual class.
For BG1 my party consisted of me (elf Berserker), Dorn, Viconia, Edwin, Coran and Baeloth. I admit this was overkill, as even without buffs Sarevok's gang stood no chance. But I mostly picked my NPCs for their personalities and utility skills, but it just turned out that the ones I liked were the ones who were absurdly strong as well. In any case, BG1 was a fun adventure without much risk.
I initially wanted to multi-class my elf, but after playing with the mechanics I decided I preferred dual class as it allowed more focus on spell casting which I preferred. A mod later, and I was a berserker/mage dualed at level 9. My BG2 party was a bit more heavily modified. Myself as an elf berserker/mage, Nalia as thief/mage (dualed at 9 instead of 4), Edwin (sorceror), Imoen (fighter mage dualed at 9), Viconia, and Keldorn.
The game was much more difficult than BG1, but mainly because I was learning the spellbook. Once I had discovered how to use the vast array of spells and defend against them, the game became far easier, but I would instantly impose my own rules if things got too easy (like minimal rest for roleplay reasons).
I was at 49 days in game at the gates of Hell, not sure if this is slow or fast, but I tried to be realistic with my rests while balancing the need for urgency.
For those who have read this formidable wall of text, I thank you. I also want to extend my thanks to the many helpful members of this community who've answered my random questions throughout this journey. Without you, I would undoubtedly be a corpse in the Unseeing Eye's feeding pit.
1. I was extremely surprised to come here and find that a non-trivial group of people disliked Irenicus dungeon. The most popular mod pack even has an option to skip it altogether! For any fans of writing, storytelling and roleplaying this is an absolute travesty because Irenicus dungeon is a masterpiece of gaming literature. The atmosphere of the dungeon created by the setting, characters, dialogue and music is one I have rarely encountered in gaming. It is simply as close to perfect storytelling in gaming as one can get. Only Diablo 1 comes close with its immersion and atmosphere.
P.S. I'd like to expand upon my love of Irenicus dungeon. We are exposed to the very intimidate details of our tormentor, particularly details about him which he would work very hard to hide. From his friends turned experiments, to his cloning(!!!) of his lost love, to his dependence upon soul-less automatons (golems) for everything critical, revealing his absolute lack of trust in others. As a fan of storytelling, this was masterfully done. I have rarely ever become so obsessed with a character, particularly a villian! Irenicus dungeon allows you to really get to know the man behind the madness, which makes the story far more personal. The voice acting just adds that icing on the cake, making him the perfect villian.
A similar approach with Sarevok would have been interesting, as much of his character is left unexplored. Particularly, the sides of him we never see (his love of Tomoko, for example).
I first stumbled upon BG2 a very long time ago when I was but a youngling. I played the demo, which was Irenicus' dungeon, and instantly fell in love. I bought the game but after exiting Irenicus' dungeon I somewhat lost the immersion and atmosphere, and thus lost interest. [1]
With the release of the EEs, I picked both up and began my adventure yet again. The Black Pits was great as it allowed me to familiarize myself with the Infinity Engine and try all of the cool classes. It allowed me to try a vast number of class combinations quickly in rigorous situations to discover their strengths and weaknesses. The story was also extremely engaging, and the characters very memorable. An excellent addition all around.
BG1 was very engaging at the start with Sarevok's introduction, but having played all of Bioware's games, I can tell they were just beginning to refine their storytelling expertise. We don't see Sarevok at all till the very end of the game, which is a shame as he is a very interesting character. Most of BG1 is spent frolicking in the country side looking for adventure, and is by no means a quest to avenge Gorion and understand Sarevok, which I believe would have worked better. I also found that revealing my ancestry was a bit anti-climatic, as it was Gorion's note that told the full story. Perhaps Sarevok should have been the one to reveal this crucial detail? Regardless, it was a great adventure, though somewhat too focused on the politics of iron and the Sword Coast. A personal touch with the politics in the background (e.g. Irenicus) would have perhaps worked better.
Enter BG2. I still love Irenicus dungeon, and not just for the nostaliga. Just incredible atmosphere as I elaborate on below. After exiting however, I was once again hit with a loss of purpose and was overwhelmed with the sheer size of Athkatla and the frequency with which I was approached by strangers with quests that sounded fun but had little to do with my tracking of Irenicus and Imoen. I did play the game more casually during this time, as I slowly worked my way through all of the stronghold quests. I learned to enjoy them after encountering and defeating Firkraag (to the delight of Keldorn!). Once I'd finished all the stronghold quests and talked to Gaelan Bayle, the game once again ripped along at a furious pace. Spellhold was excellent. I particularly enjoyed the Underdark, as I have a morbid fascination with my fallen brethren and their mad devotion to their chief tormentor, Lolth. I was so caught up with aiding my elven compatriots at Suldanesselar that I forgot to return to Athkatla one last time to forge Crom Faeyr and defeat Kangaxx.
The final two encounters with Irenicus were interesting. He was far from the demi-god I had witnessed in the dungeon and Waukeen's promenade. He did slay me at our first encounter both times, but that was due to my morbid desire to see the extent of his true power, which resulted in me autoattacking and witnessing his magical onslaught, to the dismay of my companions.
All in all, an excellent game. The Enhanced Edition and slight mods and were required for me, as my lack of meta-game knowledge made certain things very annoying. For example, I CLUA'ed in a bottomless bag of holding right at the start, because I was unsure what documents and keys I needed to keep. I also allowed expanded dual and multi-class options, as for roleplay reasons I prefer to play as an Elf but also wish to dual class.
For BG1 my party consisted of me (elf Berserker), Dorn, Viconia, Edwin, Coran and Baeloth. I admit this was overkill, as even without buffs Sarevok's gang stood no chance. But I mostly picked my NPCs for their personalities and utility skills, but it just turned out that the ones I liked were the ones who were absurdly strong as well. In any case, BG1 was a fun adventure without much risk.
I initially wanted to multi-class my elf, but after playing with the mechanics I decided I preferred dual class as it allowed more focus on spell casting which I preferred. A mod later, and I was a berserker/mage dualed at level 9. My BG2 party was a bit more heavily modified. Myself as an elf berserker/mage, Nalia as thief/mage (dualed at 9 instead of 4), Edwin (sorceror), Imoen (fighter mage dualed at 9), Viconia, and Keldorn.
The game was much more difficult than BG1, but mainly because I was learning the spellbook. Once I had discovered how to use the vast array of spells and defend against them, the game became far easier, but I would instantly impose my own rules if things got too easy (like minimal rest for roleplay reasons).
I was at 49 days in game at the gates of Hell, not sure if this is slow or fast, but I tried to be realistic with my rests while balancing the need for urgency.
For those who have read this formidable wall of text, I thank you. I also want to extend my thanks to the many helpful members of this community who've answered my random questions throughout this journey. Without you, I would undoubtedly be a corpse in the Unseeing Eye's feeding pit.
1. I was extremely surprised to come here and find that a non-trivial group of people disliked Irenicus dungeon. The most popular mod pack even has an option to skip it altogether! For any fans of writing, storytelling and roleplaying this is an absolute travesty because Irenicus dungeon is a masterpiece of gaming literature. The atmosphere of the dungeon created by the setting, characters, dialogue and music is one I have rarely encountered in gaming. It is simply as close to perfect storytelling in gaming as one can get. Only Diablo 1 comes close with its immersion and atmosphere.
P.S. I'd like to expand upon my love of Irenicus dungeon. We are exposed to the very intimidate details of our tormentor, particularly details about him which he would work very hard to hide. From his friends turned experiments, to his cloning(!!!) of his lost love, to his dependence upon soul-less automatons (golems) for everything critical, revealing his absolute lack of trust in others. As a fan of storytelling, this was masterfully done. I have rarely ever become so obsessed with a character, particularly a villian! Irenicus dungeon allows you to really get to know the man behind the madness, which makes the story far more personal. The voice acting just adds that icing on the cake, making him the perfect villian.
A similar approach with Sarevok would have been interesting, as much of his character is left unexplored. Particularly, the sides of him we never see (his love of Tomoko, for example).
Post edited by FD3SA on
14
Comments
After the tenth time it gets repetitive.
I personally don't have anything against Irenicus dungeon, but there are certain times i'll just shadowkeeper in a +5 weapon, boots of speed and double ring of Gaxx just to rush through it. But then again we're all different and like/dislike different things.
Even now, I summon him once in a while for a re-match, and its staggering how often he wins.
It truly is an amazing game when it forces you to admit defeat and return later when you're stronger, a little bit like Dark Souls.
I totally agree with you regarding storytelling and pacing. I love exploring as much as the next guy, but both games, BG1 especially, can seem a little... disconnected, sometimes. I totally agree with your assessment of Serevok, also. He's an awesome villain, and every glimpse of him we get to see is amazing, but there are like four of those in a 50-hour game. Hardly enough time to really use such a compelling villain.
And oh god, Firkraag. I maintain to this day that Firkraag's quest has a more interesting plot than many entire games, and that Firkraag is a villain of rare quality, both in terms of being a compelling villain and being a damned fun (and difficult) fight.
Without the might of Power Word: Reload, I would have made a tasty morsel to the great Firkaag.
Ah, how could I forget to mention my absolute lack of Romance!
I will admit to desiring the affections of the fierce Viconia, as I've always been fascinated with my fallen kin. I sincerely wished to turn her away from her faith in Shar, and have her embrace Elistraee and Corellon but she would have none of it. Her hatred of her my kind ran too deep, and thus I was left without love on this demanding journey (Aside from accepting the fervent advances of the ambitious Matron's daughter Phaere...all in the line of duty of course).
I did however forge strong bonds of brotherhood with Keldorn, whose years of service and sacrifice had taken their toll. I found a kindred spirit in the aging Paladin, and he was undoubtedly my source of inspiration through the darker parts of our journey. Edwin was definitely our "young Elminster", as the wizard's eccentricity and his lack of self-awareness often led to great humor... though we could not laugh for long, as he was perhaps a little too powerful even for me.
Nalia had become the source of youthful exuberance I remembered in Imoen from our time in Candlekeep. She was a fierce mage, but still had the curious and generous heart of a young elf. Imoen, I fear, was forever changed by the events of our capture at Irenicus' hands. She suffered too much for someone who has done little wrong. Such, it appears, is the fate of a Bhaalspawn.
I am not sure you could make it more linear without ultimately hurting the roleplay potential by railroading. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to connect 'I just killed Mulahey' with Nimbul showing up. The story seems set up to be both linear yet open to considerable interpretation/roleplay, a feature not present in many games. You can be very good, or downright psycho evil, again not many RPGs actually let you go full evil. IE in KOTOR you can 'kick the puppy', but are really limited in the evil department, while being allowed to do almost any good deed you can think of.
I am rambling incoherently again, aren't I...
As such I decreed that no fighting of any sort was allowed within my party (BG2 Tweak mod). I then sat Keldorn down and had a serious talk with him regarding morality. Viconia had done nothing but good since I rescued her from her gruesome tormentors. Particularly, she had saved both our skins countless times, especially recently against a certain fire-breathing"foul-beast of legend" that Keldorn's foolish pride had got us into a death match with. He had absolutely no case against her, for her actions had made her intentions quite clear. She had not engaged in a single act of evil during her entire time with me, which was particularly impressive for a drow and and follower of Shar, who had sworn loyalty to an elf and follower of Corellon.
Since Keldorn had sworn to serve my cause after I had helped him with his, he understood that he had no choice. Furthermore, he admitted to a moment of weakness and lack of moral fiber by attacking a drow who I had personally vouched for and whose deeds did not have a single stain of evil under my vigilant watch. Would he have attacked Drizzt Do'Urden, a friend of mine and a renowned hero? Of course not. To do so willingly would be to fall as a Paladin, be barred from the Order and be sentenced to death.
It then became clear that Keldorn's mind was on other matters regarding his family whom he sorely missed, and that the burdens of his duty were beginning to take their toll. At this point, we took a break from our quest to recuperate and allow each party member to spend time alone to refocus and renew their spirits. After spending that time with his family, Keldorn returned renewed and humbled, ready to serve and cognizant of his mistakes. In short, he returned the noble Paladin whom risked his life alongside mine to destroy evil wherever it stood, while taking care to allow even the smallest seeds of Good to grow and flourish.