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[STEAM] Improvements & Feature Additions to Steam Version

NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
edited July 2014 in Feature Requests
[Thread created at @elminster‌'s recommendation.]

Original discussion can be found here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/33422/baldur-s-gate-steam-version-questions

A lot of people play the Baldur's Gate games through the Steam client, I being one of them. While this is already very convenient, some improvements could be made to the Steam version which can benefit both the players and the developers. The following are suggested feature additions and improvements to the Steam version of the game. New requests may be added in future editions of this post.

Steam Achievements / Steam Trading Cards Steam Achievements and Trading Cards are well-known features of the Steam client implemented by a large portion of games hosted on the platform. Both features can add further customization for players which extends outside of the game and onto their profiles, where they can showcase achievements and badges they've earned, alongside unique backgrounds depicting memorable artwork from a variety of games.

If these were added to the Steam versions of Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition and Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition, it would allow for players to showcase their achievement progress in the game, along with perhaps a nifty Baldur's Gate logo as their featured badge or Irenicus in their profile background. Moreover, implementing Steam Achievements would allow for the developers to track usage statistics and which achievements are earned. This is important because it can provide much clearer insight on what players most commonly do in their initial playthroughs, along with which features are most popular or least played. This in turn can help the developers improve the gaming experience and have a better understanding of what the players want and enjoy if/when a new game comes under development (Baldur's Gate III, anyone?).

These achievements and their statistics can benefit the players, as well. Not only can you show off how much time you waste enjoy playing this game through the "Hours Played" counter, but you can also show specifically what progress you have made. The addition of Steam Achievements can also add another dimension to the game, increasing its replayability and including optional challenges for achievement hunters. As for Steam Trading Cards, this is primarily a cosmetic addition for the players, but can also be helpful to promote the game and thereby reaching a wider audience.

Steam Cloud Saving One feature which some can say is long overdue is the Steam Cloud Saving feature. Implementing Steam Cloud Saving would make the lives of people playing on the go much easier, especially those who frequently switch between computers, travel a lot, or alternate between desktop and mobile devices. Steam Cloud Saving would therefore allow players to save their game files on the Steam Cloud, which would save them from the unnecessary process of manually extracting and transferring the files each time they switch devices or computers, which can be quite the nuisance (not to mention immersion-breaking for some).

Q & A:

How will either of these features benefit the developers?

Well, the implementation of Steam Achievements will allow the developers to track which achievements are earned and which are typically neglected. This helps them better understand the gaming patterns of the players, which in turns enables them to develop better games and add features to existing games which would be well-received by the community. As for Steam Trading Cards, they are primarily benefiting the players, but this can also help the developers by giving them an opportunity to add original and unique content to the Steam version, which many players will be gladly accept. Given the contractual restrictions, this may enable the developers to significantly alter the gaming experience while not violating their terms. I don't know enough about the legal aspects of this, however, so I'll leave my commentary on it at that.

In addition, both Steam Achievements and Steam Trading Cards can serve as tools to promote and endorse the products, thereby reaching a wider demographic and attracting new players (which means more money!). Not only will players enjoy the customization and showcasing that comes along with these features, but they'll also be implicitly advertising the Baldur's Gate games, spreading the word and piquing the interest of new generations of players (or older generations or never heard of it during the original release).

I don't like/care for Steam Achievements or Trading Cards. Why should I support their implemention?

Not everyone likes these features, especially gamers who are used to gaming before the dawn of achievements and badges. For those who don't use Steam, this shouldn't affect their gameplay. For those of you who do use Steam, but have no interest or desire to showcase participate in these features, you can either: (a) ignore the features and play as you usually would; or (b) play in Offline Mode, which typically prevents the acquisition of achievements and (sometimes) trading cards.

Even if you have no personal interest in these features, they can still benefit you because they will attract new players to the game. This means more active forums, more people with whom you can interact and discuss the game, and more people available to play with in multiplayer. Therefore, regardless of whether you want achievements or trading cards, the implementation of these features can still indirectly improve your gaming experience and discussions on the forums.

[Further Q & A's may be added in future editions as this thread progresses.]


Feel free to post any questions, comments, or complaints about the above feature requests (or recommend additional possible features relating to the Steam client version) in this thread. Thanks for reading!
elminsterFablewyndMessiOxvaJuliusBorisov

Comments

  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    Well, you're right that the statistics aren't anywhere near as detailed or informative as the developers might like, @Troodon80‌, but these are primarily limitations of the Steam client (and maybe the contractual agreement restricting in-game achievements), not the developers themselves. Nevertheless, the statistics provided by the achievements can still be beneficial. And even if they weren't, there's always the benefit of attracting more people to the game with the possibility of achievements. Achievement hunters will actually go out of their way to purchase and play a game just so that they could get the achievements, even if the game genre or type is not particularly interesting to them. This alone can benefit the developers by increasing sales and, with luck, forum activity.

    There are many completionists and the addition of achievements would provide another dimension to the game, as well as encourage multiple playthroughs. This helps the player get the most out of their gaming experience, along with promoting the game and generating revenue for the game.

    You're right that the Steam Cloud only works with the Steam client, but even that would be helpful for many players. For example, I prefer playing on my desktop for a variety of reasons, but whenever I have to travel somewhere or even if I want to play somewhere else, it'd be helpful to be able to pick up from where I left off no matter where I am, just so long as I'm signed into Steam. Otherwise, I'd have to manually transfer the files each and every time I switch computers, which is quite the hassle. I'm not sure if other cloud services would be compatible with the Steam version of the game, or compatible with the Steam client itself, but even that would be preferable to the current method.
    elminster
  • FablewyndFablewynd Member Posts: 79
    edited July 2014
    This as a rank five badge to display on my profile? Yes please:

    image
    NokkenbuerCrevsDaak
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    I'd like the idea only because if they could find a way to make statistics work better in the game it could allow for some interesting modding opportunities. I find achievements to be generally annoying personally, but that is because a lot of the games I seem them in on Steam kind of just hand them out for anything. Some games are better than other for this of course.
    NokkenbuerCrevsDaak
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    I would love to have Steam achievements, it's just a question of technical implementation and whether it's feasable - and with an ancient engine like the Infinity Engine, that could be fun times.

    Having ANY kind of statistics would be pretty fantastic.
    NokkenbuerFablewynd
  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    elminster said:

    I'd like the idea only because if they could find a way to make statistics work better in the game it could allow for some interesting modding opportunities. I find achievements to be generally annoying personally, but that is because a lot of the games I seem them in on Steam kind of just hand them out for anything. Some games are better than other for this of course.

    The developers can definitely make some unique achievements which will encourage players to experience the lesser known aspects of the Baldur's Gate series, such as "What's That Doing in a Tree?", "Daer'Raghhhhh!", "Farming for Ankheg (Plate)", or "The Sword That Bites Back". Of course, there will be expected achievements like those relating to alignment ("Savior of the Sword Coast", "Bhaalspawn of Baldur's Gate", "Heroic", "Despised", etc.) and sidequests ("Dead Ned Redemption", "Neera's Revenge", "One Less Ogre Belt-Fetishist"), along with the usual main plot quests ("Escaping Candlekeep", "Nashkel Miner", "Escaping Candlekeep... Again", "Brotherly Love", etc.). There would be others for unique encounters ("Noober Nightmare"), random events ("Lightning Never Strikes the Same Place Twice... Nevermind"), etc.

    I think the developers can go really far with the achievements, not to mention express their creativity in an original and new way. Yeah, there will be some easy ones and mandatory achievements for completing the game, but that by no means needs to be the end of it. I can easily see over 200 achievements for each game, no problem.

    I won't complain if the developers decide to use my achievement names, either!
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    @Nokkenbuer‌ There'd be legal issues with using your names, unfortunately, but Steam achievements and trading cards is something I'd personally like to see.
    NokkenbuerelminsterMessiCrevsDaak
  • FablewyndFablewynd Member Posts: 79
    edited July 2014
    Those backgrounds would be lovely. I'm sure the BG community would be more than willing to assist with the creation of cards/badges - there're some talented artists amongst us, and it could really free up the workload for the developers in regards to cards.

    I know all these are trivial 'cosmetic' things. Achievements aren't everyone's bag, and that's fair enough. Same with cards and badges; some people just don't want to spend money on pixels that decorate your Steam account and do nothing in the actual game itself. Personally, I'd just love to chance to adorn my Steam page with badges and wallpapers of my favourite game series.

    Also, an a very shallow point of view, some people on Steam just buy games that have Achievements and Cards so that can either a) make a relatively cheap badge (games with around 5 cards per badge), and/or b) get a 100% from a game with relatively simple Achievements. I know that you would want people to buy the game to play it, but the people who would buy the game for these two reasons probably would never buy the game in the first place, and so at least they'll drum up your sales a little more :P (even if Steam isn't your prefered method of selling the game.)
    Nokkenbuer
  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    I don't know if the Achievement hunters would like it if I decided the achievements, then, @Fablewynd‌. I would have a MINIMUM of 200 achievements per game. With how expansive and dynamic the game can be, I can easily see many achievements for this, much more than pretty much any other RPG.
    Fablewynd
  • FablewyndFablewynd Member Posts: 79
    Haha, I wouldn't mind 200 achievements, @Nokkenbuer. With Baldur's Gate 1/2 being the expansive games they are, there's plenty of room for that many, like you say. I like to make sure I earn as many achievements as I can when I play a game on Steam - achievements that require multiple playthroughs and such; it's fun, and encourages you to play the game differently to how you normally would (in BG, you could have ones for playing through with certain NPCs in your party, who you'd never normal take with you for example). That encouragement is good, I feel.

    The only achievements I don't like when you're 'hunting' them, are the ones that just require luck (like cast magic missles on Irenicus whilst he's at 58% health and you're at 9% health, whilst he has his back to you and all your party members are dead) - those achievements are annoying and put achievement hunters off :P
    Nokkenbuer
  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    I agree, though it may be fun to have a few simple ones like that, such as getting struck by lighting (or struck twice in a row), which honestly isn't that hard and usually happens at least once during a playthrough unless you're actively avoiding bad weather. It would be an extension of the original joke the developers intended the lightning to be: now, not only will you nearly crap yourself the first time it happens, but you'll be forced to stand in the rain for hours and hope to get hit again.

    But yeah, extremely specific achievements like that can be annoying, @Fablewynd‌.
    Fablewynd
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    edited July 2014
    Quoting to highlight a valid portion and enquire about consumerism:

    This alone can benefit the developers by increasing sales and, with luck, forum activity.

    Strictly from a consumer point of view, @LiamEsler, and I know the technical side is not your field, but on the off-chance something like Steam achievements, profile customisation, badges, and trading cards are implemented, what will there be to offset that and make it appealing to actually support the developer direct?
    Erg
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    @Troodon80 Also not my area at all, heh. That'd be a question for @TrentOster‌ -- I've no idea what Beamdog's position is on all this, just stating my own personal opinion, to be clear. :)
    Troodon80CrevsDaakNokkenbuer
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    I'm pretty sure we could come up with fun achievements and technically it is possible to implement them, but so far the idea was that it is more pain than gain.
    It is not just artwork that this needs, but scripting and very likely extra code (special triggers) that's used only for this.
    Nokkenbuerelminster
  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    So, in other words @Avenger_teambg‌, adding achievements would (at this time) be too much of a hassle to do so right now? I can definitely understand that, but if that's the reason then it seems like the chances of Steam Achievements being implemented are slim to none. Do you have any prediction or expectation that adding achievements would be easier in the future, for example due to a larger development team or, I don't know, changes in how it could be coded? I don't know a lot about that type of stuff, so I can't really even form a relevant question regarding it.

    Oh, and if I mistook the meaning of your post, I apologize. It just seems to me you're saying that implementing achievements is simply not feasible at this time due to the heavy demands doing so would make on the development team (and the engine?).
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    @Nokkenbuer‌ It's something we can't really talk about with any kind of certainty, as internally it hasn't been a big issue. I know it's been brought up, but basically until we control Steam entirely, there's not a whole lot we can afford to do on that front. :)
    NokkenbuerFablewyndelminsterOxva
  • artificial_sunlightartificial_sunlight Member Posts: 601
    If they make steam badges in this game, it will be the reason for a Steam version only mod. "get all badges in 1 minute"

    Get 100000000 gold... Clua
    Kill 100 monsters in 10 min Ctrl Y
  • j5689j5689 Member Posts: 6
    edited August 2014
    It would also be nice to be able to use the beta versions of the game through Steam like in the Beamdog client. But that would definitely require having full control over the Steam version of the game like you guys said.

    Cloud saving is probably the easiest game-related part of any of these things to implement, and also the most practical since it's a story-driven RPG where savegames are inherently important. I would think you just point Steam to the savegame directory(in this case: "C:\Users\insert your name here\Documents\Baldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition" so it gets both the original game and Black Pit savegame folders) and then Steam automatically synchronizes that to its cloud servers. Obviously I don't know though, and this is probably another thing that would require full control of the Steam version to be handed over to you guys.

    Trading cards would also be extremely easy to implement I think. It looks like the current system on Steam just gives you a random one the first three times it detects that you're playing the game(doesn't have to be scripted to anything other than playing the game itself as far as I can tell) and from there you either randomly obtain them or buy whatever you're missing from other people on the Steam market to cash them in for badges. You guys would just have to come up with the cards and badges which is easy enough.

    Personally the achievements aren't a big deal for me if they can't conveniently be implemented. They would be really cool but they should be last on the list if they're on it at all. Also try to make them hidden until unlocked if you can, I haven't played ToB yet so I don't want to accidentally see any spoilers in the achievements list like some games have in theirs.

    I sincerely hope you all get control of the Steam version soon though, it doesn't make any sense for you not to have it already but I think I know why you don't.
  • XzarXzar Member Posts: 215
    I have an idea for Steam backgrounds. Rather than simply be existing art, they should be new art, representing myths and alternate realities from games. "Sarevok laying siege of Athkathla", "Gorion fighting Irenicus in Hell", "Viconia betraying CHARNAME in Ust Natha", "Yoshimo overcoming geas through battle meditation". From non-alternate stuff I'd very much like to see "Imoen picking lock of Gorion's desk in Candlekeep" and "Salvanas enjoying the night in Copper Coronet's brothel with all the female NPCs".
    JuliusBorisov
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