>> I think Minsc polls as one of the most loved characters of the series,<<
I can't imagine why. He's deranged and homicidal. If you turn down his quest to rescue Dynaheir in BG1, he attacks you. He's delusional; he thinks a hamster is an alien from space and is talking to him. This probably qualifies him for a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia.
I did a rotation through the closed psych ward in the old Bellevue, years ago. Trust me, there is nothing cute or appealing about violence prone psychotics, and I find the game's attempt to make him so objectionable in and of itself. If this guy showed up in the psych ER, raving about giant space hamsters and exhibiting aggressive behavior, we'd pump him full of Thorazine or Haldol, put him in restraints and admit him to a locked ward.
I didn't have Minsc with me when I rescued Melicamp, so this dialogue did not take place for me. I am not surprised that someone who talks to hamsters empathizes with a talking chicken. His dialogue also suggests that the severity of his condition waxes and wanes at different times; here he seems to realize that hearing hamsters speak would be ... odd. None of this mitigates the fact that he is dangerously unstable, and violent when balked. As I mentioned, the first time my party encountered him, he attacked us when we turned down his request to rescue Dynaheir, and we were forced to kill him. Only curiosity made me go back into an alternate time line and agree to aid his quest.
Since I had no guarantee that he wouldn't go off his rocker again and attack someone whom he shouldn't at an inopportune moment, the only logical decision was to give him the boot.
@FrdNwsm This is a standard dialog thread. No matter who talks to Melicamp. It is just funny to have Minsc saying these dialog lines.
I agree with you on Minsc's behaviour in BG1. However all of us are under the BG2 influence. He is one of the most (if not the most) touching character.
Incidentally Minsc has another "feature". His stats are under the BG threshold(75) : 71 points in BG1, 73 in BG2 and his wisdom is below the required value for a ranger. Despite this disavantage he is a powerful companion. Retrospectively it makes me smile when I see that many players focus on high stats even if they relate to a standard build (approximately everything which is not multi/dual class).
>>I agree with you on Minsc's behaviour in BG1. However all of us are under the BG2 influence. He is one of the most (if not the most) touching character.<<
Well, I haven't played BG2 except to do a fast scout of the first scenario, to get a feel for what was going on. I'm maybe 2/3 of the way through BG1. If you say Minsc's head injury induced insanity improves somewhat here, I'll have to take your word for it for now.
>> many players focus on high stats<<
I'm not stat-crazy, but I do get concerned when key stats limit a character's potential. I wasn't too bothered by Branwen's relatively low wisdom, for example, although it meant she could never use level 6 and 7 clerical spells. After all, she wouldn't ever reach that level in BG1. If I had a cleric like that in BG2, I'd be rather more concerned. Also, I must say, I did find Khalid to be a better fighter than Minsc, during the brief period I had them both. Since he is gone from BG2, the question of choosing between them becomes moot.
If you say Minsc's head injury induced insanity improves somewhat here, I'll have to take your word for it for now.
Hmm, well ... if anything, his conversation in BG2 is even crazier than in BG1, but on the other hand his behaviour becomes more controlled and predictable. Mostly.
I wasn't too bothered by Branwen's relatively low wisdom, for example, although it meant she could never use level 6 and 7 clerical spells.
That's not how it works, at least not as implemented in the BG games. Every Cleric can cast spells of whatever spell-level is allowed by her experience-level, regardless of WIS. A Cleric's WIS affects only the number of bonus spells-per-day and the Lore skill.
Also, I must say, I did find Khalid to be a better fighter than Minsc, during the brief period I had them both.
Opinions vary, and it somewhat depends upon what equipment you have available and how you allocate proficiency points as the characters level up. The comparison can be argued either way, but both are pretty effective warriors when used correctly.
Worth noting, regarding Minsc, that miniature giant space hamsters do exist in the Forgotten Realms, as do talking animals. So while he is probably delusional, he's delusional on the order of someone who thinks the government is putting estrogen in the water deliberately to lower male fertility rates. He's probably wrong, but the belief isn't patently impossible.
Of course, he does have some serious temper-control issues, especially in BG1, so if you don't like him I can't blame you. In general, though, he's pretty far from the most dangerous person on the BG cast.
>>comparison can be argued either way, but both are pretty effective warriors when used correctly.<<
OK, admittedly this is just my opinion, but I find that which one is preferable varies a bit with how far in the game you have progressed. Level 1-2, when your spell casters are weak and the enemy has few HP, Minsc takes them down faster than Khalid. Your fighters AC is usually significantly better than the foe, but when they appear in numbers you want to take them down fast before they get in some lucky hits. Minsc wins out in this regard; he has a better THACO and does more damage per hit.
When your crew is level 6-ish, the enemy has enough HP that they don't go down in 1-2 shots; at the same time, your spell casters have some decent spells and, with the ring of Sune and the ring of Wizardry, they have more spells to cast. They are as effective in combat as your front rank fighters, if not more so. At this point, you want fighters in the front ranks who are tanks, and can keep the unwashed hordes of enemy melee fighters away from your spell casters long enough that they can unleash their arsenal of mystical death. Durability is better than damage dealing for this purpose, IMO. Khalid with his shield has better AC than two handed using Minsc, and you can improve his defense vs missiles further by filling his two sword and shield slots.
Also, Khalid has a better constitution; the extra 1 HP at level 1 is insignificant, but at level 6, the extra 6 HP do help. During the time I had them both, Minsc invariably took more damage during a hard fought combat; I had to keep him stocked with healing potions for use in those situations. Khalid wins out later on in the durability category. Again, just my opinion; as always, your mileage may vary.
>>Every Cleric can cast spells of whatever spell-level is allowed by her experience-level, regardless of WIS. A Cleric's WIS affects only the number of bonus spells-per-day and the Lore skill.<<
Whoa! OK, that's different from the old pen and paper D&D rules I grew up with. Interesting, and good to know. Thanks for the heads up; I'd never have guessed.
@GoodSteve - I'm not convinced by your theoretical comparison of what Khalid would be like if he were available in BG2. Khalid is a pureclass Fighter, so he'd end up fairly similar to Korgan or Mazzy in BG2.
I realise that others may play differently and perhaps reach a different conclusion, but in my experience Korgan and Mazzy are stronger end-game tanks than Minsc (although Minsc is certainly usable), both because of grandmastery and because of levelling faster and further and thereby having more HLAs. After all, one of the best ways of mitigating late-game damage is to kill the enemy quickly.
[Minsc is] deranged and homicidal. If you turn down his quest to rescue Dynaheir in BG1, he attacks you. He's delusional; he thinks a hamster is an alien from space and is talking to him. This probably qualifies him for a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia.
I did a rotation through the closed psych ward in the old Bellevue, years ago. Trust me, there is nothing cute or appealing about violence prone psychotics, and I find the game's attempt to make him so objectionable in and of itself. If this guy showed up in the psych ER, raving about giant space hamsters and exhibiting aggressive behavior, we'd pump him full of Thorazine or Haldol, put him in restraints and admit him to a locked ward.
As much as I sympathize and understand that your real-life experience might cause Minsc to trigger some uncomfortable memories, I'm not really on board with this analysis.
Granted, it's a bit jarring that a Neutral Good character will attack a group only because they refuse to help. However, I don't think this is very consistent with Minsc throughout the rest of the campaign. I don't think the writers had any idea on how much more they would be able to flesh out the characters by the time they wrote BG2. I don't even think they could predict how popular the character would become.
As to why he's become so popular despite his psychotic behavior, well, I wouldn't hold it to the same standards we hold people in the real world. Can you really single out Minsc as homicidal considering the trail of bodies CHARNAME and his party leave behind from Candlekeep to the Throne of Bhaal? You can't deny the approach these games take to conflict is a bit simplistic and favors bloodshed way more often than not.
I can only think of one other occasion when Minsc will go berserk without the player's input and that's at the Copper Coronet, after a certain NPC openly taunts and provokes your party into doing so. There's also Edwin, but let's face it, he has it coming (first trying to murder Dynaheir and later being a complete dick to Minsc about her death).
In fact, even considering his child-like mentality and sense of morality, Minsc is often more cool-headed and tolerant than other good NPCs. He will not take offense on Viconia's insults, for example, whereas Keldorn, the wise hardened bastion of good will go full witch-hunt-stab-first-ask-questions-later on her.
Lastly: in my understanding whether Boo's human-like intelligence and miniature giant space hamster condition is all in Minsc's head or not is made ambiguous by the writers. Giant Space Hamsters do exist in this world (it's a reference to Spelljammer, and not the only one, by the way) and also, Boo will often react to what Minsc says with a squeak.
P.S. 1: sorry guys, I know I went full off-topic with this post.
P.S. 2: it seems hating on Minsc is the new black around these boards. If I have to write another lenghty post defending him I might as well put on my make-up and post a hissy fit to YouTube appropriately named LEAVE MINSC ALONE.
Comments
I can't imagine why. He's deranged and homicidal. If you turn down his quest to rescue Dynaheir in BG1, he attacks you. He's delusional; he thinks a hamster is an alien from space and is talking to him. This probably qualifies him for a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia.
I did a rotation through the closed psych ward in the old Bellevue, years ago. Trust me, there is nothing cute or appealing about violence prone psychotics, and I find the game's attempt to make him so objectionable in and of itself. If this guy showed up in the psych ER, raving about giant space hamsters and exhibiting aggressive behavior, we'd pump him full of Thorazine or Haldol, put him in restraints and admit him to a locked ward.
Since I had no guarantee that he wouldn't go off his rocker again and attack someone whom he shouldn't at an inopportune moment, the only logical decision was to give him the boot.
It is just funny to have Minsc saying these dialog lines.
I agree with you on Minsc's behaviour in BG1.
However all of us are under the BG2 influence. He is one of the most (if not the most) touching character.
His stats are under the BG threshold(75) : 71 points in BG1, 73 in BG2 and his wisdom is below the required value for a ranger.
Despite this disavantage he is a powerful companion.
Retrospectively it makes me smile when I see that many players focus on high stats even if they relate to a standard build (approximately everything which is not multi/dual class).
Well, I haven't played BG2 except to do a fast scout of the first scenario, to get a feel for what was going on. I'm maybe 2/3 of the way through BG1. If you say Minsc's head injury induced insanity improves somewhat here, I'll have to take your word for it for now.
>> many players focus on high stats<<
I'm not stat-crazy, but I do get concerned when key stats limit a character's potential. I wasn't too bothered by Branwen's relatively low wisdom, for example, although it meant she could never use level 6 and 7 clerical spells. After all, she wouldn't ever reach that level in BG1. If I had a cleric like that in BG2, I'd be rather more concerned. Also, I must say, I did find Khalid to be a better fighter than Minsc, during the brief period I had them both. Since he is gone from BG2, the question of choosing between them becomes moot.
Of course, he does have some serious temper-control issues, especially in BG1, so if you don't like him I can't blame you. In general, though, he's pretty far from the most dangerous person on the BG cast.
OK, admittedly this is just my opinion, but I find that which one is preferable varies a bit with how far in the game you have progressed. Level 1-2, when your spell casters are weak and the enemy has few HP, Minsc takes them down faster than Khalid. Your fighters AC is usually significantly better than the foe, but when they appear in numbers you want to take them down fast before they get in some lucky hits. Minsc wins out in this regard; he has a better THACO and does more damage per hit.
When your crew is level 6-ish, the enemy has enough HP that they don't go down in 1-2 shots; at the same time, your spell casters have some decent spells and, with the ring of Sune and the ring of Wizardry, they have more spells to cast. They are as effective in combat as your front rank fighters, if not more so. At this point, you want fighters in the front ranks who are tanks, and can keep the unwashed hordes of enemy melee fighters away from your spell casters long enough that they can unleash their arsenal of mystical death. Durability is better than damage dealing for this purpose, IMO. Khalid with his shield has better AC than two handed using Minsc, and you can improve his defense vs missiles further by filling his two sword and shield slots.
Also, Khalid has a better constitution; the extra 1 HP at level 1 is insignificant, but at level 6, the extra 6 HP do help. During the time I had them both, Minsc invariably took more damage during a hard fought combat; I had to keep him stocked with healing potions for use in those situations. Khalid wins out later on in the durability category. Again, just my opinion; as always, your mileage may vary.
Whoa! OK, that's different from the old pen and paper D&D rules I grew up with. Interesting, and good to know. Thanks for the heads up; I'd never have guessed.
I realise that others may play differently and perhaps reach a different conclusion, but in my experience Korgan and Mazzy are stronger end-game tanks than Minsc (although Minsc is certainly usable), both because of grandmastery and because of levelling faster and further and thereby having more HLAs. After all, one of the best ways of mitigating late-game damage is to kill the enemy quickly.
Granted, it's a bit jarring that a Neutral Good character will attack a group only because they refuse to help. However, I don't think this is very consistent with Minsc throughout the rest of the campaign. I don't think the writers had any idea on how much more they would be able to flesh out the characters by the time they wrote BG2. I don't even think they could predict how popular the character would become.
As to why he's become so popular despite his psychotic behavior, well, I wouldn't hold it to the same standards we hold people in the real world. Can you really single out Minsc as homicidal considering the trail of bodies CHARNAME and his party leave behind from Candlekeep to the Throne of Bhaal? You can't deny the approach these games take to conflict is a bit simplistic and favors bloodshed way more often than not.
I can only think of one other occasion when Minsc will go berserk without the player's input and that's at the Copper Coronet, after a certain NPC openly taunts and provokes your party into doing so. There's also Edwin, but let's face it, he has it coming (first trying to murder Dynaheir and later being a complete dick to Minsc about her death).
In fact, even considering his child-like mentality and sense of morality, Minsc is often more cool-headed and tolerant than other good NPCs. He will not take offense on Viconia's insults, for example, whereas Keldorn, the wise hardened bastion of good will go full witch-hunt-stab-first-ask-questions-later on her.
Lastly: in my understanding whether Boo's human-like intelligence and miniature giant space hamster condition is all in Minsc's head or not is made ambiguous by the writers. Giant Space Hamsters do exist in this world (it's a reference to Spelljammer, and not the only one, by the way) and also, Boo will often react to what Minsc says with a squeak.
P.S. 1: sorry guys, I know I went full off-topic with this post.
P.S. 2: it seems hating on Minsc is the new black around these boards. If I have to write another lenghty post defending him I might as well put on my make-up and post a hissy fit to YouTube appropriately named LEAVE MINSC ALONE.