@Grum, looks legit, but at the same time it requires some metagaming (or plain luck on a first or blind playthrough). Getting and solving Marek/Lathander's quest before Varci's isn't a given, nor is picking a fight with the clergy in a Temple of Umberlee rather than paying 2000GP in a roleplayed run. Besides, there are other examples, both in Baldur's Gate and in other areas. - The boogeyman quest requires breaking into a home. - For Ramazith and his sweet loot there are two options. (i) breaking in after the release of Ragefast's Nymph to inflict the death penalty on the wizard, a draconian measure against his desire to get hold of an already freed Nymph (btw, if Ramazith hasn't been spoken to before Ragefast's Nymph is released, Ramazith won't even show up in the game, making the looting of his tower plain and ordinary theft), (ii) an evil, out-of-character decision to bring the Nymph to Ramazith for the latter to enslave her, ignoring the creature's pleas for release, and then suddenly 'seeing the light' and deciding to release the Nymph after all. - Desreta and Vay-Ya require Charname to suggest to have sex with them ('pleasure in the privacy of their bedroom)' in order for them to go hostile so that the Gauntlets of Ogre Power can be obtained.
Step 1: Get the quest for the tome. Step 2: Go pay 500gold for the tome. Step 3: Get the quest for the boy's body Step 4: Give the tome to the priestess Step 5: Ask for the boy's body Step 6: Tell her that 2,000 gold for the body is highway robbery. She will attack you. Step 7: Kill her. Take the boy's body and the tome.
Voila. You've now got a tome that you have lawfully paid for. You upheld your bargain, and only killed the priestess in self defense. And as such, a good guy can get the 3rd wisdom tome.
Hm,.. most of the time I ask Tenya for the boy`s body and kill the High priestess for the tome.
But shure it sucks to be the high priestess with a tome,... ---- Never mention the Nymph quest again! Last time I screwed it big time, lost the loot and looked like a dick,...
@Grum, looks legit, but at the same time it requires some metagaming (or plain luck on a first or blind playthrough). Getting and solving Marek/Lathander's quest before Varci's isn't a given, nor is picking a fight with the clergy in a Temple of Umberlee rather than paying 2000GP in a roleplayed run. Besides, there are other examples, both in Baldur's Gate and in other areas. - The boogeyman quest requires breaking into a home. - For Ramazith and his sweet loot there are two options. (i) breaking in after the release of Ragefast's Nymph to inflict the death penalty on the wizard, a draconian measure against his desire to get hold of an already freed Nymph (btw, if Ramazith hasn't been spoken to before Ragefast's Nymph is released, Ramazith won't even show up in the game, making the looting of his tower plain and ordinary theft), (ii) an evil, out-of-character decision to bring the Nymph to Ramazith for the latter to enslave her, ignoring the creature's pleas for release, and then suddenly 'seeing the light' and deciding to release the Nymph after all. - Desreta and Vay-Ya require Charname to suggest to have sex with them ('pleasure in the privacy of their bedroom)' in order for them to go hostile so that the Gauntlets of Ogre Power can be obtained.
Very good points! I've never completed an evil walkthrough...so I didn't even know about the Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Which really goes to prove your point...
- For Ramazith and his sweet loot there are two options. (i) breaking in after the release of Ragefast's Nymph to inflict the death penalty on the wizard, a draconian measure against his desire to get hold of an already freed Nymph (btw, if Ramazith hasn't been spoken to before Ragefast's Nymph is released, Ramazith won't even show up in the game, making the looting of his tower plain and ordinary theft), (ii) an evil, out-of-character decision to bring the Nymph to Ramazith for the latter to enslave her, ignoring the creature's pleas for release, and then suddenly 'seeing the light' and deciding to release the Nymph after all.
I can think of one possible good guy excuse for whacking the evil mage or for entering his tower to look for him. If you visit Ye Olde Inn near the Flaming Fist HQ you'll encounter a group of green slimes munching on the tavern patrons. Once you've killed them the locals will explain that Ramazith had an argument with the innkeeper, summoned the slimes, and teleported out. That's a rather evil act and heroic goodly sorts might see it as their duty to confront the wizard.
Some types of Good-aligned party shouldn't have RP-difficulty in attacking Jalantha Mistmyr to keep/retain the Tome. Think Paladin: their job is smiting Evil, and that's the High Priestess of an Evil goddess right in front of you, so it's easy to RP that a Paladin would be itching for an excuse to smite her.
Speaking of questing in Baldur's Gate (the city), I am currently in the city with my new playthrough, and doing it in a fairly focused (minimal side questing) fashion. I am curious about some things though...
1) I've been working with Scar cos I am lawful stoopid and all that, but I already know quite a lot about the Iron Throne and the Seven Suns Trading Coster from the letters you find in the Cloakwood Mines and Bandit Camp. If I just barged straight into the Iron Throne HQ as soon as I reached the city, would I have still been able to progress normally? Sometimes it just feels like my characters have to be pretend stupidity to go along with the story. Duke Eltan is still asking for evidence associating the Iron Throne to the Iron Crisis and other dodgy business in the city... "WHAT ABOUT ALL THESE LETTERS I GOT!?! I GOT NAMES, I GOT MOTIVE AND I GOT A PAPER TRAIL... WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT MAN?!"
2) I almost forgot about Marek and Lothander, and only ran into them because I went to the northeast for the Ogre Mage quest. Now from previous experience I know exactly where to go next... but if I never visit the market (I don't really have a reason to go) and never meet Lothander, do I just die randomly in 10 days regardless?
Hmm... I've never gone to the Iron Throne first so I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine you would still have to at least complete the Seven Suns quest for Scar, and perhaps skip the Ogre Mage hunt mission, before you'd get the chance to meet with Duke Eltan.
I'm fairly certain that the death timer doesn't start until you've talked to Lothander in the market. You could save and sleep for ten days to find out.
Let's explore another point of view. I am wondering whether those who think that Baldur's gate city is boring are entertained by another area.
This is indeed a good question, although we have to take into consideration that the BG city includes 9 sections and it's hard really to find "another area" that can have the same scale.
Maybe the Durlag's Tower due to all its levels up and down and the Cloakwood areas.
Actually, if you ask me, I'll tell you that both the Durlag's Tower and the Cloakwood forest with its mines are my favourite parts of BG1.
It's great if you take advantage of the fact that pretty much every building has something to it, an interesting person or quest giver, items to steal or even easter eggs (the rabid chickens and green jelly tavern come to mind...). There's also quite a few challenges, battle-wise, though sometimes you might need to be the one initiating it... xP
The problem I've always had with the city is that, if you did Werewolf Island and Durlag's Tower beforehand (which makes more sense, story-wise, than stopping the plot for a few months after the events at Candlekeep), you'll hit the XP cap just as you first enter Baldur's Gate. As a result, the only things that are really worth doing involve tomes or specific pieces of equipment; there's not much reason to do more than the primary quests at that point.
The problem I've always had with the city is that, if you did Werewolf Island and Durlag's Tower beforehand (which makes more sense, story-wise, than stopping the plot for a few months after the events at Candlekeep), you'll hit the XP cap just as you first enter Baldur's Gate. As a result, the only things that are really worth doing involve tomes or specific pieces of equipment; there's not much reason to do more than the primary quests at that point.
You mean the mage island as you can't do werewolf Island before reaching Baldur's Gate.
It doesn't make much sense to do Durlags Tower before at the end of the game. And if you complete every quest, explore every wilderness area and do the mage Island with a 5 man team you'll have 85 000 - 90 000 experience. So that's 70 000 more you can pick up in Baldur's Gate. If you have a 6 man team you'll have around 75 000 to 80 000 if you complete everything up to that point.
You could say BG city is boring. But it doesn't bore me, as much as overwhelm me. There's just *so* much to do! If you want boring, go in the homes in Easthaven in IWD. Wow I found a spear. Wow I found another villager telling me the same cloned responses of the other villagers, wow there's writing on the wall I can't read... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
You mean the mage island as you can't do werewolf Island before reaching Baldur's Gate.
No, I mean Werewolf Island - I console the map into my inventory for continuity's sake so I can do all three areas in sequence (Ice Island, then Werewolf Island, then Durlag's Tower).
And if you complete every quest, explore every wilderness area and do the mage Island with a 5 man team you'll have 85 000 - 90 000 experience. So that's 70 000 more you can pick up in Baldur's Gate. If you have a 6 man team you'll have around 75 000 to 80 000 if you complete everything up to that point.
Hey, you can argue numbers all you want, I have the save to prove it. That was what happened on my last playthrough, and as a result, I pretty much skipped the entirety of the city except for the tomes, an amulet from Ramazith and a few other knick-knacks.
@shawne So, you prefer using cheats rather than finding an excuse to do quests from TotSC after visiting Baldur's Gate? It actually makes sense to do them after chapter 6, the group is outside of the city and being accused of murder. It's a good reason to do something else, instead fo running directly to Baldur's Gate (I know the chapter begins by saying that you should be in a hurry) and stay outside of the view for a while.
Anyway, the city itself is one of the better ones made in cRPGs. Feels natural, with normal houses, not necessarily related to a quest, yet with enough interesting things to see/do, or people to meet. The way the city is divided may be a bit annoying, but I enjoy walking through the streets and not rushing for quests.
Even though I prefer the area with forests etc., Baldur's Gate is one of the more interesting places in the game. Athkatla feels fake with a feeling of being trapped in a web full of quests and I especially dislike Neverwinter in NwN1. That city is actually boring to me, especially the layout and the look with copy-paste buildings.
I don't know if I would say the city is boring, its definitely my least favorite part of the game and I do tend to rush through it just to get into bg2, which has a far superior city in every aspect imaginable.
@shawne So, you prefer using cheats rather than finding an excuse to do quests from TotSC after visiting Baldur's Gate?
It wouldn't be a problem, except that you can't get the map without initiating the Marek/Lothander quest, and then you have to complete that or get an instant game over.
It actually makes sense to do them after chapter 6, the group is outside of the city and being accused of murder. It's a good reason to do something else, instead fo running directly to Baldur's Gate (I know the chapter begins by saying that you should be in a hurry) and stay outside of the view for a while.
So you prefer ignoring what the game tells you, as well as the fact that you know Sarevok's about to kickstart his master plan by assassinating the Dukes, so you can go treasure-hunting in some random tower? Well, more power to you, then. I don't accept that justification, and find it much more believable that my character would go to Werewolf Island while he's being chased by Iron Throne assassins but doesn't quite know what's up yet.
It wouldn't be a problem, except that you can't get the map without initiating the Marek/Lothander quest, and then you have to complete that or get an instant game over.
I don't think the timer starts until the second encounter with Lothander.
I've always been pretty comfortable with random sidequests from an RP perspective. I figure my characters would have ideas similar to my metagamey ones: "That Armored Figure and his friends were terrifying. If I'm going to defeat them, I'm going to need all the equipment and magic I can get, and I'd better start honing my abilities against lesser opponents."
Step 1: Get the quest for the tome.
Step 2: Go pay 500gold for the tome.
Step 3: Get the quest for the boy's body
Step 4: Give the tome to the priestess
Step 5: Ask for the boy's body
Step 6: Tell her that 2,000 gold for the body is highway robbery. She will attack you.
Step 7: Kill her. Take the boy's body and the tome.
Voila. You've now got a tome that you have lawfully paid for. You upheld your bargain, and only killed the priestess in self defense. And as such, a good guy can get the 3rd wisdom tome.
this is a great post.
And I hate bg now that I roleplay. Why would I enter every house uninvited? Next playthrough where I will turn full evil with lazors I'm going to terminate everyone
Comments
I am wondering whether those who think that Baldur's gate city is boring are entertained by another area.
Besides, there are other examples, both in Baldur's Gate and in other areas.
- The boogeyman quest requires breaking into a home.
- For Ramazith and his sweet loot there are two options.
(i) breaking in after the release of Ragefast's Nymph to inflict the death penalty on the wizard, a draconian measure against his desire to get hold of an already freed Nymph (btw, if Ramazith hasn't been spoken to before Ragefast's Nymph is released, Ramazith won't even show up in the game, making the looting of his tower plain and ordinary theft),
(ii) an evil, out-of-character decision to bring the Nymph to Ramazith for the latter to enslave her, ignoring the creature's pleas for release, and then suddenly 'seeing the light' and deciding to release the Nymph after all.
- Desreta and Vay-Ya require Charname to suggest to have sex with them ('pleasure in the privacy of their bedroom)' in order for them to go hostile so that the Gauntlets of Ogre Power can be obtained.
@Musigny, good question.
But shure it sucks to be the high priestess with a tome,...
----
Never mention the Nymph quest again!
Last time I screwed it big time, lost the loot and looked like a dick,...
1) I've been working with Scar cos I am lawful stoopid and all that, but I already know quite a lot about the Iron Throne and the Seven Suns Trading Coster from the letters you find in the Cloakwood Mines and Bandit Camp. If I just barged straight into the Iron Throne HQ as soon as I reached the city, would I have still been able to progress normally? Sometimes it just feels like my characters have to be pretend stupidity to go along with the story. Duke Eltan is still asking for evidence associating the Iron Throne to the Iron Crisis and other dodgy business in the city... "WHAT ABOUT ALL THESE LETTERS I GOT!?! I GOT NAMES, I GOT MOTIVE AND I GOT A PAPER TRAIL... WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT MAN?!"
2) I almost forgot about Marek and Lothander, and only ran into them because I went to the northeast for the Ogre Mage quest. Now from previous experience I know exactly where to go next... but if I never visit the market (I don't really have a reason to go) and never meet Lothander, do I just die randomly in 10 days regardless?
I'm fairly certain that the death timer doesn't start until you've talked to Lothander in the market. You could save and sleep for ten days to find out.
Maybe the Durlag's Tower due to all its levels up and down and the Cloakwood areas.
Actually, if you ask me, I'll tell you that both the Durlag's Tower and the Cloakwood forest with its mines are my favourite parts of BG1.
It doesn't make much sense to do Durlags Tower before at the end of the game. And if you complete every quest, explore every wilderness area and do the mage Island with a 5 man team you'll have 85 000 - 90 000 experience. So that's 70 000 more you can pick up in Baldur's Gate. If you have a 6 man team you'll have around 75 000 to 80 000 if you complete everything up to that point.
Anyway, the city itself is one of the better ones made in cRPGs. Feels natural, with normal houses, not necessarily related to a quest, yet with enough interesting things to see/do, or people to meet. The way the city is divided may be a bit annoying, but I enjoy walking through the streets and not rushing for quests.
Even though I prefer the area with forests etc., Baldur's Gate is one of the more interesting places in the game. Athkatla feels fake with a feeling of being trapped in a web full of quests and I especially dislike Neverwinter in NwN1. That city is actually boring to me, especially the layout and the look with copy-paste buildings.
I've always been pretty comfortable with random sidequests from an RP perspective. I figure my characters would have ideas similar to my metagamey ones: "That Armored Figure and his friends were terrifying. If I'm going to defeat them, I'm going to need all the equipment and magic I can get, and I'd better start honing my abilities against lesser opponents."
this is a great post.
And I hate bg now that I roleplay. Why would I enter every house uninvited? Next playthrough where I will turn full evil with lazors I'm going to terminate everyone