Uh... you're aware that choosing to avoid an encounter you know is there breaks RP too, right? You'd be applying metagame knowledge to a scenario.
I am well aware of this, I simply find that one is justifiable or at least tolerable while the other is just to much for me. My using meta knowledge to avoid some guy in a tavern isn't preferable for rp but it is justifiable. When it comes to Hexxat there is no way to apply this meta knowledge in such a manor as to maintain appropriate character behaviour.
The detect evil suggestion does work to an extent but its very flimsy imo
I am well aware of this, I simply find that one is justifiable or at least tolerable while the other is just to much for me.
Sounds to me like you might be trying a bit too hard to find fault here where none exists.
On paper, your first encounter with Clara isn't any different from your first encounter with Korgan. They both ask you to help steal a treasure. They both register as Evil (any paladin or cleric would pick up on that). They're both disreputable within the Coronet itself - the bartender tells you "Hexxat" is a weirdo, and Korgan's belligerent personality is plain to see.
If you're playing the type of character who wouldn't have killed Dynaheir for Edwin, you refuse to help them. If you're Evil, you can't afford to be turning down any help in this game since there are only five Evil companions in Athkatla anyway. If you don't know what your character would do... well, doesn't that speak more for how you're playing the game than for how the game is designed?
@Ravenslight - she only did it the once for me in my playthru, and in my post 1.3 patch restart. I think mayhaps you have found a bug.
I am however going to go into my BG2EE right this second and double check.
EDIT: Having double checked this does not happen for me. She spoke to me once, I said no, and nothing since.
Hmm… In that case perhaps I have judged her to harshly. I have not played BGII since the latest patch as I am currently working in BG. I wonder if it was something that was fixed, or just my game. Oh well, either way I am pleased to know this. If all she does is plead her case once, it’s not a problem for me. Thank you for the insight.
Sounds to me like you might be trying a bit too hard to find fault here where none exists.
that's quite possible, its something that is difficult for me to assess. Id say its more a case of what I personally find acceptable and what I don't
detect evil just raises to many issues with general gameplay about when you apply it and when you don't. For what its worth I did actual use this as an excuse the last time I played. Personally I don't like it regardless I believe it raises to many moral questions.
The korgan comparison Is not something I can respond too I honestly don't remember his encounter in the slightest.
If you don't know what your character would do... well, doesn't that speak more for how you're playing the game than for how the game is designed?
I do know what my character would do, that's my issue. My character would help or atleast investigate the situation. The problem arises further down the road when my character is unable to act accordingly. Its my attempt to avoid that situation that causes the issue. I either behave in character and there by get forced into Hexxats crap or I apply meta knowledge
The korgan comparison Is not something I can respond too I honestly don't remember his encounter in the slightest.
He's literally in the same room as Clara. He asks you to help him steal an ancient text from a tomb swarming with undead, because the last group he was with collapsed into violent infighting.
How is this scenario different from a woman in a suspicious fugue state asking, over and over, for you to help her rob another tomb? Why is one scenario acceptable while the other poses so much difficulty?
My character would help or atleast investigate the situation. The problem arises further down the road when my character is unable to act accordingly. Its my attempt to avoid that situation that causes the issue. I either behave in character and there by get forced into Hexxats crap or I apply meta knowledge
I'm assuming that "acting accordingly" means killing the real Hexxat. What's stopping you? You even get XP for taking her out.
The game doesn't prevent you from encountering Evil characters if you're playing Good - you can still decide to save Viconia from being burned alive without actually taking her along with you, and you have to work with Edwin for a while to do the Shadow Thieves quests. That doesn't compromise your RP.
I'm assuming that "acting accordingly" means killing the real Hexxat. What's stopping you? You even get XP for taking her out.
I can kill her indeed but I just don't like the whole episode. Ive discussed this with you before i believe, so I wont do so again. Simply put I hate the manner in which you are forced to behave(glued to the spot) and react(leaving clara with no given reason). RP aside I simply do not like or enjoy the content and would rather avoid it.
ultimately it boils down to me not liking the content and wanting to avoid it and the game making it difficult to do so with out altering my characters behaviour in a way find to be unenjoyable
ultimately it boils down to me not liking the content and wanting to avoid it and the game making it difficult to do so with out altering my characters behaviour in a way find to be unenjoyable
Welp, then you're just going to have to refuse to help her. Invent whatever justification you want: you don't like the look of her, you're busy, no room in the party, etc. Not sure what the big deal is otherwise.
1: Imoen is missing, or your soul is missing 2: She is obviously crazy 3: What kind of rolls wastes time with a rambling crazy person's quest when your sister or your soul is missing?
You just don't have time to investigate the ram kings if every insane person in Athlaka. That is...unless you are meta gaming by knowing that it is a solvable quest.
I don't think that the modernisms are that mood breaking. I slightly view Baldur's Gate as a version of D&D except you aren't playing with "x" number of people. Unless you're in a very hardcore D&D group, you would usually see some jokes breaking through the role-playing. I do agree though, that the Beamdog writing isn't as good.
I haven't read all the comments in this thread, but in relation to the OP, there's only been one NPC that made me cringe because of how out-of-place and immersion-breaking he was. I am talking about Zaviak from Neera's Hidden Refuge.
Mild modernisms are okay, and not particularly out-of-line with what Bioware did for the original game, but Zaviak takes it way too far, into ctrl+y territory.
@bengoshi I have no problem with humor in my RPGs, I love Minsc, and Neera makes me chuckle on occasion too, but Zaviak is a stereotypical American hippie... in Faerun. "Kill it with fire!"
Edit: What I mean is that I like humor if it makes sense in the context of the setting.
I like a lot of the Hidden Refuge NPCs, actually. That ex-accountant with the cats reminds me of the Primus song 'Nature Boy'.
That said, some of the voice acting in the new content is ... not great. The worst offenders I can think of are Mironda, Mereth, and the old crone who accosts Rasaad at the City Gates. I know the original game had some pretty bad voicing, but this seemed to be done for comic effect; the crowd gathered in the Temple District at the start of the Unseeing Eye quest, for instance, felt like extras in a Monty Python skit.
Fortunately, this gripe is limited to a handful of incidental NPCs. The main additions are really rather well done.
EDIT: As for immersion breaking, I always felt that it was in the spirit of the game to play fast and loose with suspension of disbelief. Much like the tabletop games, infinity engine DnD treats the fourth wall as elastic at best. I can't remember ever hearing a character joke about being clicked on and thinking: "that spoils the mood!"
I say we toss out the rose-colored glasses for a while. The new content has no more fourth-wall breaking and americanisms than the original content. From the top of my head I can remember at least one Monty Python and a couple of Frank Sinatra references. And what about Khalid's "Ch-ch-ch-chia"? The spirit of the game is more often lighthearted than not and I think Beamdog has kept consistency in that regard.
I have plenty of issues with the new content, but none of them has to do with the quality of the writing or voice acting. I actually think they did very well, at least in BG1 (haven't properly played BG2:EE yet) and whenever I thought something missed the mark, I didn't mind, since some of the stuff from the original game also makes me roll my eyes. Bub Snikt and Peter of the North, for example.
You know what really rubs me wrong way? Tranzig's selection sound. Even the recording quality seems to be off on that one. "Sims tumee deez men want trouble ... ... I'll give them trahbl."
Hmm, I think some people know that electricity is a thing, but I doubt anyone aside of the most cra.... genius gnome engineers know what this witchcraft is about :P
But not in 1368 DR, so maybe that counts as a modernism.
You could always try Contact Another Plane for that. Reportedly reception only works in Icewind Dale in 1281DR, but with some fine tuning you never know what you could messages there are to be picked up along the Sword Coast
Hmm, I think some people know that electricity is a thing, but I doubt anyone aside of the most cra.... genius gnome engineers know what this witchcraft is about :P
When I think genius gnome engineers, I always think Cid.
And how can anyone forget about the carphone? That was a hallmark of an 80s wheelin' and dealin' power suit.
I have plenty of issues with the new content, but none of them has to do with the quality of the writing or voice acting.
I agree with everything you said except for this, the VA part specifically. When I first ran into Senjak and Dorothea I inmediately thought of the infamous Chaos Wars for the PS2. Same with Neera, although some people have posted that her VA gets better in BG2EE, havent played that one yet. For those of you who havent heard the CHaos Wars voice acting before, BEHOLD AND DESPAIR!:
You mean like Harrison Ford's narration in Bladerunner...if only he were slightly emo?
For the sake of anyone who might not have seen Bladerunner, the voice over to which Fiendish Warrior refers does not exist, and any copy of the movie you find without 'Director's Cut' written on the box is a figment of your imagination. To be on the safe side, though, you should probably still burn it.
Just want to complain a bit. Neera's jokes at the face of her death are RP-breaking. Some of the modern words she uses are mood-breaking. Same goes with some other aspects of BGEE characters. For example, Dorn's quest is named "Bad Cop"... There are so many little pieces of dialogue that are out of context of lore.
The Forgotten Realms are not an analogy to medieval Europe. Besides, it seems that "cop" might simply refer to the act of capturing so. or sth. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cop#Etymology_2), so it's as valid in a fantasy setting as any other word that's related to some real-world-language.
Comments
The detect evil suggestion does work to an extent but its very flimsy imo
On paper, your first encounter with Clara isn't any different from your first encounter with Korgan. They both ask you to help steal a treasure. They both register as Evil (any paladin or cleric would pick up on that). They're both disreputable within the Coronet itself - the bartender tells you "Hexxat" is a weirdo, and Korgan's belligerent personality is plain to see.
If you're playing the type of character who wouldn't have killed Dynaheir for Edwin, you refuse to help them. If you're Evil, you can't afford to be turning down any help in this game since there are only five Evil companions in Athkatla anyway. If you don't know what your character would do... well, doesn't that speak more for how you're playing the game than for how the game is designed?
detect evil just raises to many issues with general gameplay about when you apply it and when you don't. For what its worth I did actual use this as an excuse the last time I played. Personally I don't like it regardless I believe it raises to many moral questions.
The korgan comparison Is not something I can respond too I honestly don't remember his encounter in the slightest. I do know what my character would do, that's my issue. My character would help or atleast investigate the situation. The problem arises further down the road when my character is unable to act accordingly. Its my attempt to avoid that situation that causes the issue. I either behave in character and there by get forced into Hexxats crap or I apply meta knowledge
How is this scenario different from a woman in a suspicious fugue state asking, over and over, for you to help her rob another tomb? Why is one scenario acceptable while the other poses so much difficulty? I'm assuming that "acting accordingly" means killing the real Hexxat. What's stopping you? You even get XP for taking her out.
The game doesn't prevent you from encountering Evil characters if you're playing Good - you can still decide to save Viconia from being burned alive without actually taking her along with you, and you have to work with Edwin for a while to do the Shadow Thieves quests. That doesn't compromise your RP.
ultimately it boils down to me not liking the content and wanting to avoid it and the game making it difficult to do so with out altering my characters behaviour in a way find to be unenjoyable
1: Imoen is missing, or your soul is missing
2: She is obviously crazy
3: What kind of rolls wastes time with a rambling crazy person's quest when your sister or your soul is missing?
You just don't have time to investigate the ram kings if every insane person in Athlaka. That is...unless you are meta gaming by knowing that it is a solvable quest.
Mild modernisms are okay, and not particularly out-of-line with what Bioware did for the original game, but Zaviak takes it way too far, into ctrl+y territory.
Edit: What I mean is that I like humor if it makes sense in the context of the setting.
That said, some of the voice acting in the new content is ... not great. The worst offenders I can think of are Mironda, Mereth, and the old crone who accosts Rasaad at the City Gates. I know the original game had some pretty bad voicing, but this seemed to be done for comic effect; the crowd gathered in the Temple District at the start of the Unseeing Eye quest, for instance, felt like extras in a Monty Python skit.
Fortunately, this gripe is limited to a handful of incidental NPCs. The main additions are really rather well done.
EDIT: As for immersion breaking, I always felt that it was in the spirit of the game to play fast and loose with suspension of disbelief. Much like the tabletop games, infinity engine DnD treats the fourth wall as elastic at best. I can't remember ever hearing a character joke about being clicked on and thinking: "that spoils the mood!"
I have plenty of issues with the new content, but none of them has to do with the quality of the writing or voice acting. I actually think they did very well, at least in BG1 (haven't properly played BG2:EE yet) and whenever I thought something missed the mark, I didn't mind, since some of the stuff from the original game also makes me roll my eyes. Bub Snikt and Peter of the North, for example.
You know what really rubs me wrong way? Tranzig's selection sound. Even the recording quality seems to be off on that one. "Sims tumee deez men want trouble ... ... I'll give them trahbl."
"Cellphones" existed in the 80s.
I mean... ee-lek-tronik. Does electricity even exist in Faerun? I don't think a wand of lightning counts.
And how can anyone forget about the carphone? That was a hallmark of an 80s wheelin' and dealin' power suit.
Same with Neera, although some people have posted that her VA gets better in BG2EE, havent played that one yet.
For those of you who havent heard the CHaos Wars voice acting before, BEHOLD AND DESPAIR!:
Besides, it seems that "cop" might simply refer to the act of capturing so. or sth. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cop#Etymology_2), so it's as valid in a fantasy setting as any other word that's related to some real-world-language.