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ABOUT THE EVENTUAL SUCCESS OF BG1 EE AND THE LOST ART ASSETS (what can we expect about the graphics)

GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
Ok time to ask something that's in my mind since you announced that you wouldn't make an HD version of Baldur's gate because Bioware lost them (-10 respect point for bioware btw).




()()()()()()()()()()()()() You said you would have loved (and still would like) to make an HD version of the current graphics, which gives me hopes for the future if you eventually get the resources to do so. ()()()()()()()()()()()()()




Ok if I understood correctly, you guys can't make an HD revamp of the graphics because you lost the art asset and only have access to the 2D models in game. Correct me if i'm wrong here please.
You said it would still be possible to make an HD, but you guys wouldn't have the time and resources right now.
But what if BG EE is a success?
Will you guys finally get the resources and confidence to go into the complex process of making a BG 2 HD?
Will you improve the paper dolls and such things you didn't have the ressources right now for BG 1 EE?



In short, what can you promise us about the graphics for BG2 EE if BG1 EE is a success?
what's best case scenario?


Now the question I have is : ''once you get the resources, will you go for your orignial plans of making a baldur's gate HD.''

Post edited by GueulEclator on
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Comments

  • Fake_SketchFake_Sketch Member Posts: 217
    Id prefer they save the money for doing BG3 as that will have to start from scratch and require more time and money (Well, and because I want graphic consistency with BG1).

    DragonserpentJarlaxleAntonkiros
  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175

    Id prefer they save the money for doing BG3 as that will have to start from scratch and require more time and money (Well, and because I want graphic consistency with BG1).

    Before they begin BG 3, BG1 EE and BG 2 EE better be huge success that gives them much money.


    If they keep the HD for BG2 EE, that will make BG2 EE a big success, bigger than BG1EE. I tell by experience that a lot of people won't be buying the game (I personally will definitively buy it anyway) until they make some significant graphic improvement.

    I don't see no reason for them Not to dedicate more time and resources on their next project (BG 2 EE) if the first one is successful (BG 1 EE).

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    Actually, gamers that played the original MIGHT NOT buy the game, new gamers still will, since they don't know for sure of the improvements.

    Truth be told, I don't think the biggest success comes from the PC version - it DEFINITELY comes from Tablets. And if they're making a Linux version, even from there. Why? Because tablets are easily accessible and portable anywhere. Bus ride? Play Baldur's Gate! Isn't that a great thing? I think it is.

    I think that if a product has a lot of time to burn in it for Tablets, it is immediately a success. I heard from friends that Magic The Gathering 2013 for iPad is possibly the most addicting thing out there! Imagine now a game that is replayable to death with a great story!

    Truly, I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of the sales would be from Tablets alone.

    The_New_RomanceFake_SketchAntonCandramelekh
  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
    Still if BG EE is a success, it's only fair that they dedicate more time and resources to BG 2 EE.

    Which means : Better graphics.


    You can't deny that most of us , and the developers themselves, were dispointed when we learn that there wouldn't be an HD revamp for the first one.

    All this because they don't have enough resources RIGHT NOW.

    But they will surely get these resources after the success of BG 1 EE.

    If a game is a success, then it's sequels is obviously better funded, and the devs will dedicate more resources to it.
    That's how it works.

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    I just don't see them expecting to make enough sales on a game that effectively already exists to achieve this. I wouldn't expect them to get enough funding, given that.

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    For being an Isometric 2D game, BG2 has EXCELLENT graphics. Having better graphics would simply have to mean better engine altogether. I believe they are aiming for that, true, but for BG3, not BG2EE.

  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
    @Moomintroll
    I don't see how you can predict the future. Don't be so pessimistic.

    And yeah I believe a graphic revamp would benefit from way more hype than what looks currently like a big patché

  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
    edited August 2012

    For being an Isometric 2D game, BG2 has EXCELLENT graphics. Having better graphics would simply have to mean better engine altogether. I believe they are aiming for that, true, but for BG3, not BG2EE.

    Read what they said more carefully : they wanted to improve Baldur's gate 1 and 2 graphics. They would have if Bioware had kept the assets.

    They don't have the resources right now to recreate the assets, but they can do it if they get more resources (success of BG 1 EE)

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    @GueulEclator If it was significantly different from the original version I could see it getting the support needed (made again from scratch in other words). For example (and I'm not saying I would prefer this) "for the first time, experience Amn under the soles of your feet. Stand face to face with the allies you made twelve years ago, command your party in real time and master sword and spell in an all new combat system that brings Baldur's gate to life in a way you never imagined" etc.

    If I read back - I think I read myself saying, how can we expect that kind of re-mastering without significant new content to make this worthwhile for investment?

  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175

    @GueulEclator If it was significantly different from the original version I could see it getting the support needed (made again from scratch in other words). For example (and I'm not saying I would prefer this) "for the first time, experience Amn under the soles of your feet. Stand face to face with the allies you made twelve years ago, command your party in real time and master sword and spell in an all new combat system that brings Baldur's gate to life in a way you never imagined" etc.

    If I read back - I think I read myself saying, how can we expect that kind of re-mastering without significant new content to make this worthwhile for investment?

    I saw more than one successful HD version of games.

    In today's game industry, a lot of games are being remade, with their graphics polished and improved, while keeping the original engine.

    These are called HD games. And they are insanely successful.

    And the devs stated it themselves : If the source art hadn't been lost, they would have done this DAMNED Baldur's Gate HD.

    The only thing that prevents them from making an HD version is the time and resources, because they haven't sold anything YET.

    Once they will have sold BG EE, trust me they will have more resources.


    Now the question I have is : ''once you get the resources, will you go for your orignial plans of making a baldur's gate HD.''

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    It's more the time than the money.

    They want to work on BG2:EE so that fans can get their hands on it sooner rather than later. Upgrading the sprites (which is all it would be anyway) is a time-consuming process, and there are a lot of sprites and environments in the game to work on. Just the NPC avatars alone would take months of work, because of the fine detail required to make it worthwhile. And then there are the hundreds of monsters, and then all of the environments too...

    What you should be asking is whether or not they'll consider upgrading the sprites and environments after BG2:EE is released. That's when they might have the time to work on something like this. At that point, it's fairly simple just to patch the new graphics into the game (albeit a rather substantial patch). But it shouldn't interrupt the development cycle for BG2:EE.

    Fake_SketchSmaugXylina
  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
    edited August 2012
    Aosaw said:

    It's more the time than the money.

    They want to work on BG2:EE so that fans can get their hands on it sooner rather than later. Upgrading the sprites (which is all it would be anyway) is a time-consuming process, and there are a lot of sprites and environments in the game to work on. Just the NPC avatars alone would take months of work, because of the fine detail required to make it worthwhile. And then there are the hundreds of monsters, and then all of the environments too...

    What you should be asking is whether or not they'll consider upgrading the sprites and environments after BG2:EE is released. That's when they might have the time to work on something like this. At that point, it's fairly simple just to patch the new graphics into the game (albeit a rather substantial patch). But it shouldn't interrupt the development cycle for BG2:EE.


    Say whatever you want (no offense intended, have a smiley : :) ), they said they wanted to make an HD version and upgrade all the pixel in the first place.

    The only thing that prevents them apparently is more the resources (size of the team) than the time.

    The problem of updating the graphic after realize is that it won't earn you anything. Most of the hype is already gone.

    You just prefer to announce in advance that the game will be BG2 HD.

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    edited August 2012
    @GueulEclator could you give me some examples, I've not heard of any, except maybe The Settlers2 which I think received a vastly incomplete remake in 3D. I'm just curious.

    Edit - I googled briefly, all results seemed to be 3d games or had very simplistic graphics, which in my ignorance I shall assume are vector based and easier to make hd.

    Post edited by Moomintroll on
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    I would welcome an update in graphics, if they find the way and resources to do it.

    They said they were definetely doing it for a BG3, but right now BG3 sounds so far away. Like 3 years away from now and then some.

    Fake_Sketch
  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175

    @GueulEclator could you give me some examples, I've not heard of any, except maybe The Settlers2 which I think received a vastly incomplete remake in 3D. I'm just curious.

    Edit - I googled briefly, all results seemed to be 3d games or had very simplistic graphics, which in my ignorance I shall assume are vector based and easier to make hd.

    I'm not expert in this field, I do know that HD remakes are being more and more popular, just like the current 3D movies trend.

    I also do know beamdog said they want to make it HD, but it takes a lot of resources that they currently don't have. They might get them once BG EE is a success.

    It's my point.

  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    I'm still wondering how big the success will actually be. IIRC, they mentioned that success would equal a few hundred thousand copies sold in the AMAA. I have no idea how well the original BG1 has sold over time, probably somewhere in the millions range, but it's still a high goal to achieve with a remake. I sure hope the tablet market will skew the numbers in their (and in effect our) favour.

  • Fake_SketchFake_Sketch Member Posts: 217
    edited September 2012
    There are a lot of unknown factors for us to speculate. For example: Will they make a lot of money with this? How is their contract? Does the contract tell them to make the game is less than X months? Will BG2 EE have to be on tablets as well? In that case they cant have a very graphical demanding game. I don't think we should bother talking about this with nearly no info, lets wait a couple of months.

    PS: I should have asked these things on the AMAAXD.

  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175

    I'm still wondering how big the success will actually be. IIRC, they mentioned that success would equal a few hundred thousand copies sold in the AMAA. I have no idea how well the original BG1 has sold over time, probably somewhere in the millions range, but it's still a high goal to achieve with a remake. I sure hope the tablet market will skew the numbers in their (and in effect our) favour.

    A few hundred thousand copies is still a huge success. It's the same number than a total war game. (total war being a very high budget, successful franchise).

    Compared to their budget, they are going to make a lot of profit from it. This will prove to those greedy publisher that BG is an extremely profitable franchise.

  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    Yes, it would be great, if they make it. As you say, it's quite ambitious. Then again, I just checked and the whole BG series sold over 5 million times, so say 300,000 sold copies of EE should be possible.

  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
    Indeed, especially since BG has this reputation of being the greatest RPG of all time.

    Now it'S up to PC gamers, IGN, gamespot... to make the hype.

  • Blakes7Blakes7 Member Posts: 83
    Maybe Beamdog could get some models from the guys who are doing bg2 redux?

    http://bg2redux.com/

    They are creating 3d models and the like, and already have done and animated some monster models.
    Additionally maybe Beamdog could go the kickstarter route to add hd graphics?

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    @GueulEclator - quit typing your subjects all in CAPS please. As you should know this is bad internet etiquette.

    The_New_Romance
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    edited September 2012
    I'm hoping that the filters that will be applied to the game's graphics will make it look noticeably prettier. I guess there's only so much that can be done there. But if they can manage to make the graphics just a little sleeker or more lush that might help fans feel better about the game not being re-rendered in HD.

  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 486
    The problem isn't strictly time and money. Its the fact that just doing HD version of the graphics wont bring enough more buyers to make back the money it takes to do those graphics from scratch. No matter how much money they get from selling BG:EE or BG2:EE it most likely wont change, so HD version will never be made.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    Bercon said:

    The problem isn't strictly time and money. Its the fact that just doing HD version of the graphics wont bring enough more buyers to make back the money it takes to do those graphics from scratch. No matter how much money they get from selling BG:EE or BG2:EE it most likely wont change, so HD version will never be made.

    Yep. Sure seems doubtful that we'll ever see the game done in HD. Only if somebody actually did save the artwork somewhere and it just hasn't been found yet. I have no doubt that Beamdog looked high and low, so it's probably gone. But anyway, if a) the EEs are a financial success, and, b) the original artwork still lives out there in the world under an unturned stone somewhere and is found, that's the only way I could see it ever coming to pass.

  • CrazedSlayerCrazedSlayer Member Posts: 130
    Personally ive always thought that BG2's graphics falls into a comfortable little niche where the graphics are obviously old, but still good enough to be playable by today's standards. Id much rather see new content added and having more neat things you can do around the world instead of a graphics improvement.

  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175

    Personally ive always thought that BG2's graphics falls into a comfortable little niche where the graphics are obviously old, but still good enough to be playable by today's standards. Id much rather see new content added and having more neat things you can do around the world instead of a graphics improvement.

    Yes they are already extremly nice, but there are room for improvement.

    Mainly your character model : what they call the paper doll i think. They could make them much more crisp, and make the equipment you wear actually visible in game, not just a generic model for armors,helmet...

    For example : if you are wearing the baldurian helmet, you can see the actual baldurian helmet model on your caracter model.

    If you are wearing a leather armor, you see a leather armor in-game on your caracter, if you are wearing a mail armor, you see a mail armor model on your caracter.

    By in-game i mean on the battle map.

  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,362
    edited September 2012
    Would they do BG:HD, should BG:EE prove successful enough? Doubtful.

    Would I purchase BG:HD on top of BG:EE, should they do that? HELL YES.

    Mornmagor
  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
    well the can do BG EE. BG EE is successful, they win money. With that money they can make BG 2 HD instead of just BG2 EE. BG2 HD is even more successful.

    Then they update the graphic of BG1 EE for free. It wouldn't take long since it's the same engine as BG2 HD.

  • SmaugSmaug Member Posts: 216
    Regarding the discussion of whether BGEE's existing graphics are enough to wrange in new players for extra cash, I don't believe great graphics are really the deciding factor. Look how the 8-bit retro aesthetic is making a huge comeback. I think exposure is the bigger issue.

    I like the idea @Aosaw threw out, having them patch the sprites later on via an update, rather than releasing an all new edition of the game.

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