Complaining about 3rd ed stats because a few games use point buy is every hit as silly as arguing 2nd Ed gives overpowered character everytime because you can infinitely reroll and re-arrange stats.
And here we have an end to it. I have not once "Complained" about 3e. I've gone out of my way to say that I "Prefer" 2E, but that I would not say anything as 'Quantitative' as to say that either system is 'Bad'.
However, since you seem unwilling to accept any counter point, coming up with spurious and inconsequential attempts to avoid the topic being discussed, I again wish you the best of luck.
I like all three editions as well. I acknowledge that each system has their strengths and weaknesses. No, liking all three does not make you a bad person.
Just my personal take on the topic: The "Intent" of having a locked chest in the camp was quite possibly to show you a weakness in your party makeup. You attempted to circumnavigate that weakness by paying an NPC and as far as the GM was concerned, that pretty much invalidated the lesson....
I'd take it as 'lesson learned: Next time bring along a thief or a knock spell'. Alternately, have the wizard for hire cast the spell in front of you. Or simply have your warrior take an axe to the chest and hope whatever is inside survives.
Indeed. Trust me, one day you'll look back on this and laugh, and you'll tell this story in future threads, and be all "...and so we took it to this mage and were all 'yeah, it's my grandfather's ashes, honestly!', dunno why we thought he'd by that, but he didn't take too kindly to being lied to, so we got back and what was in there? An urn full of ashes! XD". And above all else, remember: it is just a game.
If it is of any interest, My old DM put us in this one campaign that started off with my 8th level wizard (we were already an established party) having his Spell book stolen by a thief. This actually lead to us spending about 3 real world months worth of gaming tracking down the perp. In the mean time, I had to buy and learn a whole new list of spells. My DM was brutal about it and randomly rolled what spells were for sale, excluding any 'Name' spells (of which my spell book had several already). But, by the time I got my original spell book back, I had a decent selection of new ones to augment the whole thing. It was actually a very fun campaign despite my approbation about the whole thing for the first couple of sessions.
Crap happens in the game. Not everything will go the way you want. Have fun with it and realize that 'unless it kills you, it will make you stronger'.
Complaining about 3rd ed stats because a few games use point buy is every hit as silly as arguing 2nd Ed gives overpowered character everytime because you can infinitely reroll and re-arrange stats.
And here we have an end to it. I have not once "Complained" about 3e. I've gone out of my way to say that I "Prefer" 2E, but that I would not say anything as 'Quantitative' as to say that either system is 'Bad'.
However, since you seem unwilling to accept any counter point, coming up with spurious and inconsequential attempts to avoid the topic being discussed, I again wish you the best of luck.
Sheesh, you could just be a grown up and make a non-reply that isn't openly rude (and complete bull**** frankly). Like **** you weren't complaining.
Try offering an actual counter maybe? Try having an actual debate based on relevant facts? Using variant rules from a CRPG to prove a point about PnP is NOT a good debate tactic, nor is defending an edition by saying 'yeah, but you can just change any rules to baby a crappy character'. I've been bloody generous in this debate, and you try to 'end things' by insulting me?? Really? Wow. Classy!
Anyways, I'd say we've both vented out, and if one side is gonna resort to insults, the debating is done here I agree. No point continuing.
Trying to have a debate about which edition is "better" (even if @the_spyder did say he was only stating his personal preference, on multiple occasions) is quite a bit outside the scope of this thread. Let's keep the discussion on-topic, shall we?
On a more direct note: Be mindful of the site rules, and if you find yourself getting worked up, take a break. Like, seriously, stop typing and go walk outside for half an hour or so.
Agree guys. I was being a little childish and selfish. It's just that I'm really into this character and was REALLY wanting some new toys. I had a whole week to think about the magic chest and what it could be. And when the new session came around we took it to the mage and it just kinda disappointed me. But you guys are right. Lesson learned.
@Stormvessel - That kind of thing will happen. And it is understandable to get upset about it. In the campaign where my DM had my wizard's spell book stolen, my character stomped around for 3 whole sessions with out a spell to cast. And it took quite a while before he was back up to casting 4th level spells. And it took a good deal of my on hand cash to get there.
In the end, it made for one of the most fascinating campaigns though.
Glad you are having fun with it. And it is a good sign when you get so invested in the game that your hopes can raise that high. I hope you keep with it and continue to enjoy yourself.
I think your party needs a thief. Maybe consider a career change? (aka multi-classing if you level up)
We have a ranger, three warriors, and me (a half-orc battle cleric). And because it's AD&D I can't dual. Maybe one of the warriors will consider it but it's a LONG way away. In the mean time maybe the GM can let us hire someone to tag along for a percentage of our gold or something.
Yeah, hiring a rogue is probably what I'd do. That's probably what the GM was trying to strongly suggest that you should do in future, actually. Just keep an eye on him, especially if he's a halfling and the GM plays him with a Cockney accent!! (the Cockney-speaking halfling kleptomaniac is one of D&D's biggest cliches, along with the snooty elven wizard, the spunky princess love interest, and the brooding fighter who murdered his brother and seeks atonement)
Basically, if there are gaps in the party, somebody needs to either take the required skills if they can, or you need to hire an NPC companion.
Alternatively, maybe you can persuade another player to join the group and create a thief.
@LadyRhian oh yeah, how could I forget the Scottish dwarf clansman! There's also the northern viking berserker from Somethingheim to consider, as well as Somethingus the Righteous, Paladin of Self-Righteousness. (D&D - and the fantasy genre in general, actually - is so full of cliches when you really think about it! )
@Squire Don't forget the Princess in the impossibly scanty dress and her grunting barbarian bodyguard (who, thanks to a Dragon Magazine article on naming characters, I tend to call "Princess Oohlala (Pronounced Ooh-lahl-a) and her barbarian Guardian Upchuck (Upp-cha-uk)"), the Evil Sorcerer whose name contains no vowels, and his EVIL God, who is SMKZNRF.
@LadyRhian would this barbarian bodyguard be the super-strong super-tough super-dumb super-softy, who smashes enemies into the ground with his little finger, but tenderly carries the fainting princess over his shoulder, speaking in 1st person and unable to pronounce his r's?
I think your party needs a thief. Maybe consider a career change? (aka multi-classing if you level up)
We have a ranger, three warriors, and me (a half-orc battle cleric). And because it's AD&D I can't dual. Maybe one of the warriors will consider it but it's a LONG way away. In the mean time maybe the GM can let us hire someone to tag along for a percentage of our gold or something.
Your party seems quite combat heavy. I'm sure you GM is planning the adventures around that, but you may want to consider either some arcane help or a thief as has been discussed. The original game was designed around a Wizard, a Thief, a Cleric and two fighter types ideally. That is in no way to say that you "Can't" do it much differently, certainly people do it differently all the time. Merely to say that this particular combination allows for all skills available.
We lost one of our members because he had to leave on business for several weeks. Fortunately he has been replaced by one of the GM's friends. He is a rogue. So that' good. We still need a wizard.
I also think I am extremely lucky that my first D&D group is GM'd by someone who really knows what he's doing. This guy is good. Get a load of this:
For the last couple of sessions we had been hunting a bullete that had been preying on some of the residents of a village. So in yesterday's session we were awoke in the middle of night by a loud racket coming from a nearby hut. It turns out the bullete had burrowed under the ground and come up in someone's hut. We approach the hut, trying to surprise it, but the bullete fled back underground. Anyway, we were thinking of what to do so I had the bright idea of laying a trap. I am a Berserker Priest, and fortunately I had a firetrap spell ready to go. So we use one of our rations, lay it near the hut, and I trap it with a firetrap. OH BUT WAIT. Firetrap can only be used on containers or doors - something that opens and closes. So we use a small bag. We put the bag on the ground with the rations, I firetrap it, and we hide.
Long story short...the Bullete isn't interested in human rations. It comes out from the ground behind where we are hiding. A long battle commences, we basically lose. The Bullete disappears with our ranger in it's mouth (the one going away on business). The rest of us are banged up pretty bad. So I cast healing spells, we decide to report the event in the morning, and we go back to bed.
When we awake in the morning we go to the hut to investigate before heading out. Guess what? The trapped bag is opened. One of the villagers is lying dead beside it, burned to a crisp.
I FORGOT TO REMOVE IT!
The GM awards me 35xp for the kill, and we get the hell out of dodge.
Oooh, consequences!! I love it when GMs have the guts to do that. Makes the game so much more hardcore.
I remember a Star Wars game where we were attacked in a back alley by some gangsters. We routed them, as the GM intended, but then some of us decided to give chase, followed the fleeing criminals into a public area, and blasted the crap out of the speeder bike he was riding. Next thing we know, the local police swoop down on us and we're arrested for murder. Everybody protested, and the GM was all "no! You can't just do whatever you feel like, you just murdered someone in front of everyone. Next week you're going to have to find a way to get out of this." I could have kissed him for that!
People forget, sometimes, that their actions have consequences. The NWN2 server I used to play on had a few situations like that, where one of the GMs punished a player for doing something daft. Once, a PC killed a few children that were throwing rocks at her (obviously reasoning that hostile == okay to attack - she could easily have fled), only to find a lynch mob after her. In another incident, a PC used a fireburst spell to get rid of a spider that was crawling all over her leg (this player was male btw, I'm not singling girls out here!!) but unfortunately a civilian was nearby, and got hit by the spell. Next thing he knew, the character was locked up for murdering an innocent civilian.
@Stormvessel - sounds like a really fun campaign. Glad you are enjoying it. And yes, consequences are always fun to deal with when your DM plays them out for you. Makes you think twice the next time around.
Comments
However, since you seem unwilling to accept any counter point, coming up with spurious and inconsequential attempts to avoid the topic being discussed, I again wish you the best of luck.
If it is of any interest, My old DM put us in this one campaign that started off with my 8th level wizard (we were already an established party) having his Spell book stolen by a thief. This actually lead to us spending about 3 real world months worth of gaming tracking down the perp. In the mean time, I had to buy and learn a whole new list of spells. My DM was brutal about it and randomly rolled what spells were for sale, excluding any 'Name' spells (of which my spell book had several already). But, by the time I got my original spell book back, I had a decent selection of new ones to augment the whole thing. It was actually a very fun campaign despite my approbation about the whole thing for the first couple of sessions.
Crap happens in the game. Not everything will go the way you want. Have fun with it and realize that 'unless it kills you, it will make you stronger'.
Try offering an actual counter maybe? Try having an actual debate based on relevant facts? Using variant rules from a CRPG to prove a point about PnP is NOT a good debate tactic, nor is defending an edition by saying 'yeah, but you can just change any rules to baby a crappy character'. I've been bloody generous in this debate, and you try to 'end things' by insulting me?? Really? Wow. Classy!
Anyways, I'd say we've both vented out, and if one side is gonna resort to insults, the debating is done here I agree. No point continuing.
<_<
>_>
>_<
/doesn't like people fighting.
On a more direct note: Be mindful of the site rules, and if you find yourself getting worked up, take a break. Like, seriously, stop typing and go walk outside for half an hour or so.
--Dee
In the end, it made for one of the most fascinating campaigns though.
Glad you are having fun with it. And it is a good sign when you get so invested in the game that your hopes can raise that high. I hope you keep with it and continue to enjoy yourself.
Basically, if there are gaps in the party, somebody needs to either take the required skills if they can, or you need to hire an NPC companion.
Alternatively, maybe you can persuade another player to join the group and create a thief.
I also think I am extremely lucky that my first D&D group is GM'd by someone who really knows what he's doing. This guy is good. Get a load of this:
For the last couple of sessions we had been hunting a bullete that had been preying on some of the residents of a village. So in yesterday's session we were awoke in the middle of night by a loud racket coming from a nearby hut. It turns out the bullete had burrowed under the ground and come up in someone's hut. We approach the hut, trying to surprise it, but the bullete fled back underground. Anyway, we were thinking of what to do so I had the bright idea of laying a trap. I am a Berserker Priest, and fortunately I had a firetrap spell ready to go. So we use one of our rations, lay it near the hut, and I trap it with a firetrap. OH BUT WAIT. Firetrap can only be used on containers or doors - something that opens and closes. So we use a small bag. We put the bag on the ground with the rations, I firetrap it, and we hide.
Long story short...the Bullete isn't interested in human rations. It comes out from the ground behind where we are hiding. A long battle commences, we basically lose. The Bullete disappears with our ranger in it's mouth (the one going away on business). The rest of us are banged up pretty bad. So I cast healing spells, we decide to report the event in the morning, and we go back to bed.
When we awake in the morning we go to the hut to investigate before heading out. Guess what? The trapped bag is opened. One of the villagers is lying dead beside it, burned to a crisp.
I FORGOT TO REMOVE IT!
The GM awards me 35xp for the kill, and we get the hell out of dodge.
(accidental double post)
I remember a Star Wars game where we were attacked in a back alley by some gangsters. We routed them, as the GM intended, but then some of us decided to give chase, followed the fleeing criminals into a public area, and blasted the crap out of the speeder bike he was riding. Next thing we know, the local police swoop down on us and we're arrested for murder. Everybody protested, and the GM was all "no! You can't just do whatever you feel like, you just murdered someone in front of everyone. Next week you're going to have to find a way to get out of this." I could have kissed him for that!
People forget, sometimes, that their actions have consequences. The NWN2 server I used to play on had a few situations like that, where one of the GMs punished a player for doing something daft. Once, a PC killed a few children that were throwing rocks at her (obviously reasoning that hostile == okay to attack - she could easily have fled), only to find a lynch mob after her. In another incident, a PC used a fireburst spell to get rid of a spider that was crawling all over her leg (this player was male btw, I'm not singling girls out here!!) but unfortunately a civilian was nearby, and got hit by the spell. Next thing he knew, the character was locked up for murdering an innocent civilian.
Consequences are awesome! ;D