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Will SoD be a expansion like ToTSC or a separate area like Throne of Bhaal?

ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
edited July 2015 in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
What the title says :
Will SoD be a expansion like ToTSC or a separate area like Throne of Bhaal?
:-)

I personally hope for the former. It is far more immersive to add to the existing world and continue the BG story than feel the shallow attempt at "continuation" through an export screen and separate world disguised as the same BG world. Any info exists on this?

Comments

  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    edited July 2015
    Yes this was what I could find myself, though no confirmations from Beamdog apparently. They only said that you can export from SoD to BG2 as far as I have seen. Even if only Baldur's Gate city will recognize your actions post-Sarevok I want to be able to go back to Beregost, Nashkel, or whatever place I want to visit. If it seems unimmersive with little npc (commoners, etc.) responsiveness to player actions I am sure modders will fix that issue.
  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605
    The devs said it will be like ToB with its own maps. Although they will re-use a few of the maps from within the city of Baldur's Gate. They also said it: "Combines open-world exploration of BG1, iconic locations from BG2, art and combat from IWD."

    Also see: http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42311/new-areas
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    Oh damn. Dunno if I'll even buy it then. I don't want a combat pseudo RPG like ToB but a real RPG like Baldur's Gate 1. What a disappointment... but many people will be happy with this so I hope they'll have fun with it.
  • SixheadeddogSixheadeddog Member Posts: 197
    Wow. What a party pooper :( ToB was a "real" RPG, btw.
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    edited July 2015
    Choices and consequences, adventure and story is what makes an RPG for me (I know it is subjective). If I wanted to be superman killing the bad guys on a linear road, I might as well go play Freedom Force Vs. 3rd. Reich, Diablo 2 or something :smiley:
  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605
    Thalamond said:

    Oh damn. Dunno if I'll even buy it then. I don't want a combat pseudo RPG like ToB but a real RPG like Baldur's Gate 1. What a disappointment... but many people will be happy with this so I hope they'll have fun with it.

    Not sure how "separate maps" leads to "combat pseudo RPG" (where the game takes place does not reflect on the combat IMO). The devs also said (can't find the post at the moment, or maybe it was in an interview I read) that some of the new areas will "connect up" the same way the BG1 maps did.

    During the live stream last week they also said there are many side quest available, so I don't think the game will be as linear as you fear. That being said, it does have a defined beginning (end of BG1) and end (start of BG2) so they have to make sure the story matches those two up. This will limit how non-liner it can be.
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    edited July 2015
    Yes perhaps I am making an exaggeration, only the release of SoD will shed light on this. But if ToB is their aim I fear that separate maps is in fact leading to a very combat heavy and C&C lacking expansion. But like I said, many people will like it this way. How do I know? Cause many people think BG2, ToB and IWD are good games even with their railroading. Don't think I am being sarcastic, I am simply airing my frustration.

    For me, BG1 is one of the (if not THE) defining RPG games. Therefore I naturally want its expansions to be like it and add to it directly. So please allow me to share my opinion even if its futile.
  • billbiscobillbisco Member Posts: 361
    edited July 2015
    You will be able to explore a modified Baldur's Gate. You will not be able to visit other BG1 areas.
    Post edited by billbisco on
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    It sounds to me like one of Bethesda's hiking simulators might be more your sort of thing.

    SoD is story driven, not an additional wilderness area of random encounters.
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    edited July 2015
    This is the typical straw man argument that can be expected. I like TES Oblivion (heavily modded), but that has little to do with Baldur's Gate. They are basically categorised as different subgenres within the broad "RPG" category of video games. You see the real difference here is how we perceive the words "(video) game" and "story".

    If I read a classic fantasy book like LoTR I expect an interesting linear story which leads from place to place toward the linear conclusion. This works well for a book.

    Now a video game in the RPG-subgenre of Baldur's Gate is an entirely different thing. Here the players are themselves actors in the unfolding plot and they can decide to act in many different ways and react to encounters in many different ways. And while the main story will force the player towards a certain end result the path to that end result will be arbitrarily decided by the player. If a game in this genre is dynamically done it will give the impression of a living world. If not it will be a book unfolding with the graphical sides of the game taking the place of imagination from bookreading. Or perhaps the movie is a better comparison: I will make sure to watch a playthrough of SoD on Youtube when it is released because that will probably be enjoyable (No sarcasm, I really want to watch such a playthrough with enjoyment).

    Why is your argument a straw man?
    Because being free to do whatever you like isn't the same as being free to do whatever you like WITH CONSEQUENCES. This is the problem with Bethesda games as the player can break immersion completely by jumping off a mountain or teleporting away when the game's npcs are making a speech about the uncoming threat from evil or whatever. You can even choose to fire an arrow into the face of the emperor without more than a slight penalty for "assault" being put on your head. I could go on about the flaws of this RPG-free roam type, but my point is rather that your flawed argument branding me as some impatient, immature casual player is totally wrong.

    Baldur's Gate 1 has in my opinion a, albeit flawed, very good system for immersion. It is a system of freedom with consequences. For instance, when we run off to the wilderness in BG, we risk being ambushed and we cannot simply teleport away. When we commit lots of frowned upon acts there are consequences in the form of Flaming Fist patrols and hired assassins.

    Bottom line is ToB didn't have this freedom. It was a Highlander movie epic turned Forgotten Realms world with Roleplaying as an afterthought. IWD and BG2 were not much better in this regard (freedom).
    A SoD with freedom with consequences and choices & consequences would be the perfect addition in my eyes and you beg to differ. This is fine, I did say that I hope people will have fun with SoD. You don't have to used flawed argument cheap tricks to slander me just because you disagree with my opinion. I'd rather have a real discussion.
  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605
    @Thalamond I am a bit less worried about the story being too linear since it was said there will be 70 new maps and more game play than ToB and TotSC combined (25hrs for the main plot, plus many more for all the side quests). And for exploration they have explicitly stated they are going for the BG1 feeling over the BG2 feeling (i.e. large open areas over small compartmentalized areas).

    To be fair, the only thing the devs have said about SoD being like ToB is that there will be a new world map and you will not have access to the previous areas from BG1. They never said the game play and/or story telling style and/or pacing of the story would be like ToB. These are things we will all have to wait for release to see.

    Also in case you have not see it, here is a transcription of the Q&A from last week: http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42230/recap-of-sod-presentation-and-q-a-session/p1
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited July 2015
    You had a very different impression of choice in BG1 than I did. I remember an almost completely linear main plot, with the option of wandering aimlessly around the countryside retreving dead cats and lost dogs.

    Choices are good, if they make sense.

    "Help us Bhaalspawn, you are our only hope. The Shining Legion is besieging Dragonspear Castle and threatening to unleash the hordes of hell across the land. What ever shall we do?"

    "I don't know about you, but I thought I would take a hiking holiday. There is a lighthouse south of Candlekeep that I always wanted a closer look at."
    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    edited July 2015
    Yeah we clearly differ in our views on BG1. I think building up a character also includes more tedious everyday tasks. This is why I don't like the story in most RPGs, cause they force you to be the chosen one from the beginning who is chosen for no reason other than pleasing the player's ego, creating a cheap plot and generic action scenes. In Baldur's Gate 1 at least you are a weakling starting out who can choose your own path and be selfish or openhanded in day to day events. Sarevok is looking for you, but you can keep hiding from his lackeys as long as you want and only vaguely feel the terror of this superior antagonist.

    But I agree that the choices in the main quest are lacking. This will hopefully be fixed with mods like the Eve of War. However, it is simply of less importance because it is only the frame story. The day to day interaction with the world, quests, and party members are what makes the roleplay experience for me.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    If I wanted the day to day life of a weaking, I can go to work...
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    I'm with @Thalamond on this one. What I loved about BG1 was the feeling that there was a whole world to explore. And the first few times I played it felt almost limitless in its scope. There were so many places to see and people to meet. I never found the actual plot particularly engaging (and to be honest after all these years and endless playthroughs I'm still kind of hazy about what Sarevok was trying to achieve and who the hell Mulahey was and why there was an iron crisis).

    For me the beauty of BG1 is that I hardly ever feel that I am being railroaded by the plot. I feel that I can make choices and play it the way I want. It feels like a world not a scenario. I feel that less in BG2 and by the time you get to ToB it is completely absent.
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    Permidion_Stark: "For me the beauty of BG1 is that I hardly ever feel that I am being railroaded by the plot. I feel that I can make choices and play it the way I want. It feels like a world not a scenario. I feel that less in BG2 and by the time you get to ToB it is completely absent. "

    This is my opinion exactly. And because we know BG1's world so well by now, expanding on it by adding areas to the already existing ones instead of creating isolated new areas is preferable to me - in short: making the world bigger instead of creating a new world.
  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 197
    edited July 2015
    While I think I understand your wants Thal... TotSC mostly added a bunch of very combat heavy linear encounters that had little to no choice or consequence to BG. So... I'm not really understanding the distinction. If SoD is going to be a choice and consequence heavy game with exploration like you want, it won't really matter of it's more like TotSC or ToB as neither expansion really had either of these. Hell, Baldur's Gate as a series never really had much defined choice and consequence in regards to its narrative anyway.

    I think something that was encouraging is in the reveal stream they did stress the game would have more exploration like BG1 and that they were fill it with nooks and crannies to explore and find stuff in. So for what it's worth, it looks like it IS going to have more BG1-like exploration aspects. That said, I expect it to tell a mostly linear story like all other Baldur's Gate content out there.
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    TotSC had both things: The linear, isolated areas but also things like Durlag's Tower which, to me, was a perfect adventuring addition to the less fleshed out Firewine bridge dungeon.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Beamdog never set out to create an expansion in the style of TotSC. It was always planned as a bridging story between BG1 and BG2, to tie up loose ends and plug plot holes. Originally, it was going to be a stand alone game, not an expansion pack at all.
  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 197
    Thalamond said:

    TotSC had both things: The linear, isolated areas but also things like Durlag's Tower which, to me, was a perfect adventuring addition to the less fleshed out Firewine bridge dungeon.

    Ok, so what's the big difference between Durlag's Tower and Watcher's Keep?
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    edited July 2015
    It is in BG1 which is an open game. If Watcher's Keep was in BG1 it would be fine, but it isn't, instead it's in a railroad game. For me BG2 is crap, don't take it personally, it's just an opinion not facts.
  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 197
    lol why would I take your opinion personally? It's not exactly a common opinion but that's fine if you feel that way. No, I don't think SoD will be for you then :)
  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 108
    All cool. It is just that some people get very defensive about BG2. Good that you are not one of them :smiley:
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