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Baldur's Gate full party

vladpenvladpen Member Posts: 88
in New Players (NO SPOILERS!)
This is a party intended for BG:EE & BG2:EE:

* Sorcerer (Spell depth. Sling and quarterstaff.)
* Cleric/Illusionist (Spell breadth. Sling and mace.)
* Inquisitor (Paladin kit. Mage-smasher. Charismatic leader. Tank. Long sword and shield.)
* Bounty Hunter (Thief kit. Trap-master. Trades 5 skill points per level for better traps. Short sword and shortbow.)
* Archer (Ranger kit. Logistically easy damage. Druidic spells at level 8. Longbow and crossbow.)
* Barbarian (Tank. Fast. Can't be backstabbed. Can rage to break open locks and be free of most controlling spells. Dual-wields axes.)

What would you change?

Comments

  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    A really good party, I would lose the archer for a Blade. because HLA's and the a bards spell casting level is insane. If you do go the blade route, then there is no need for the cleric/illusionist, so make a pure cleric or a fighter/cleric instead. Also if your thinking of just running a solo multiplayer game and making this party I would recommend just EEkeepering ingame NPC's to the classes you want, or else your playthrough will be depressingly quiet.

    Add in BGNPC project if you don't have it already and have much fun :smiley:
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    to be perfectly honest you don't need to change anything, you have great mage power, and you have a cleric for healing and defense and you have a couple of guys that can go into melee and you have a thief for all the theif stuff, this team can go through the whole trilogy and make it on top
  • vladpenvladpen Member Posts: 88
    SmilingSword said:

    bards spell casting level is insane

    How insane is it?
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    I'd be happy with the Archer... it'll dominate your kill-count for all of BG1 and most of BG2, and it's a very low maintenance party-member to deal with... just make sure they have ammo and let 'em go at it!

    Blades are great, but they require a lot of micro-management, as they play as a Fighter/Mage most of the time, with a heavy requirement to buff and spell-protect themselves. Also, they'll be competing with the Cleric/Illusionist for Scolls.

    One of the big benefits of Bards (and their kits) is their accelerated levelling (they level at the same speed as Thieves), meaning they're a good bet to Dispel/Remove Magic nasty enemy effects... but you already have the Inquisitor who is the boss at that. So you'll get a couple of extra d(x) on your Fireballs/Skull Traps vs a Mage/Sorcerer, but not much else.


    If it were my party, I'd make the Cleric/Illusionist a Fighter/Cleric or Ranger/Cleric for more front-line umph, and take an Illusionist/Thief instead of the Bounty Hunter as my utility man... but then I'm not a big trapper.
  • vladpenvladpen Member Posts: 88
    edited July 2015
    abacus said:

    If it were my party, I'd make the Cleric/Illusionist a Fighter/Cleric or Ranger/Cleric for more front-line umph, and take an Illusionist/Thief instead of the Bounty Hunter as my utility man... but then I'm not a big trapper.

    So mostly you'd trade half a thief for half a warrior. I once thought that thieves are a necessary evil and half a thief is enough. However, I have a different perspective now. In practical terms, your thief character is your main character. Sure, he may not be the protagonist, but he's the one scouting ahead looking for dangers, and is therefore the main character you spend time controlling. Therefore you have to ask: what do you want your most-controlled forward-scout character to be able to do? The Thief kits have very different play styles.

    The Shadowdancer specializes in launching a surprise attack and then vanishing. This is good solo, bad in a party (backstab is actually penalized).

    The Assassin and the Bounty Hunter specialize in taking tactical advantage. The Assassin starts the fight by poisoning the mage (it interrupts casting), and then the rest of the party charges in. The Bounty Hunter lays traps, and then pulls the enemy.

    If you don't care to take much tactical advantage, you have the straightforward Swashbuckler who sacrifices backstab for better melee.

    I decided that I want my thief to be able to make the most of his tactical advantage. I chose special traps over poisoned backstabs because they are more flexible, powerful, and safe.

    How does the Illusionist/Thief compare to the various other thieves? What do they do when they find enemies? What else do they do? Arcane power is great, but since another party member can handle it, it seems like a waste to give up Bounty Hunter traps.
    Post edited by vladpen on
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    vladpen said:

    SmilingSword said:

    bards spell casting level is insane

    How insane is it?
    Pretty insane, bards level on the thief progression table and they count as casters of that level. Getting a mage to level 16 takes 2250000 exp, with the same amount of exp a bard would be level 20 half way to level 21. These extra levels mean the world when casting certain spells, skull trap is the classic example, as the mage would be casting a 16d6 spell while the bard would be casting a 20d6, that's a free extra 4d6 dmg. Also remove and dispel magic have a better chance of dispelling at higher levels. Besides all of this the blade has offensive and defensive spins, offensive spin makes your blade a dps monster for 24 seconds and defensive spin plus some buffs and spell protections makes your blade the best tank in the game. Also they get some thief HLA's that means they have timestop traps and spike traps two of the strongest abilities in the game. Also improved bard song, once you get this just throw the singing during combat script on and have your bard give the party a ridiculous buff, combat starts he start singing, throw on defensive spin and just let him sit there, winning you all the fights. Only ever stop singing to cast the occasional spell.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @vladpen If you love BH traps, play one. Simple as that.
  • vladpenvladpen Member Posts: 88
    @FinneousPJ Don't you think I know that?
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Well, you don't have to explain yourself or justify using it over the more powerful Illthief, which you seemed to be doing.
  • vladpenvladpen Member Posts: 88
    edited July 2015
    @FinneousPJ So what if I don't have to? Can't I just have fun?
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    edited July 2015
    Single classed thieves (even kits) typically run out of steam in the later game, whilst a multi is still growing.

    The illusionist specialism clicks great with a thief's skills... Simulacra running wild... the whole Mislead perma-backstab thing... Plus you get a caster who gets the extra spells/level/day to compensate for their lost XP to the second class.

    If we were taking about the Rogue Rebalancing mod, I might go a different way... Bard and Thief kits get a real boost from that, but in the vanilla, for pure power, Illusioniist/Thief is probably the best option for your thief, and the extra DPS granted by the cleric/warrior multi is significant.


    But it's about fun... If you like traps and want to play the Bounty Hunter, then do so! Any combo can beat the game, so go with what you think you'll enjoy most.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @vladpen If you find justifying your choices to us fun, go on right ahead.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    @vladpen in terms of taking tactical advantage an illusionist/thief is excellent at it. Consider that he can backstab and then instant cast invisibility to emulate a Shadowdancer, he can cast fireballs and skulltraps to emulate a Bounty Hunter and finally he can cast Polymorph Self to emulate a Swashbuckler and an Assassin. Most importantly he actually does all of this better than the kits themselves with more damage, more attacks, more traps and more gore.

    Illusionist/thief is truly the ultimate utility class with strategies that are only limited by your imagination.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    Wowo said:

    @vladpen in terms of taking tactical advantage an illusionist/thief is excellent at it. Consider that he can backstab and then instant cast invisibility to emulate a Shadowdancer, he can cast fireballs and skulltraps to emulate a Bounty Hunter and finally he can cast Polymorph Self to emulate a Swashbuckler and an Assassin. Most importantly he actually does all of this better than the kits themselves with more damage, more attacks, more traps and more gore.

    Illusionist/thief is truly the ultimate utility class with strategies that are only limited by your imagination.

    Agreed. Although he/she can't cast Skull Trap as it's a Necromancy spell.
  • vladpenvladpen Member Posts: 88
    Wowo said:

    he can backstab and then instant cast invisibility to emulate a Shadowdancer

    Surely there are better spells to cast than one that effectively just gives you a free backstab. The Shadowdancer's play style relies on being able to flit in and out of shadows constantly.
    Wowo said:

    he can cast fireballs and skulltraps to emulate a Bounty Hunter

    Would he do this any better than a Cleric/Illusionist or any other arcane caster? Arcane spells are inherently great, but you're not going to give a Mage component to every party member.
    Wowo said:

    he can cast Polymorph Self to emulate a Swashbuckler and an Assassin.

    Can't any arcane caster do that? Wouldn't Cleric/Illusionist actually do it better because of more self-buffs?
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    vladpen said:

    Wowo said:

    he can backstab and then instant cast invisibility to emulate a Shadowdancer

    Surely there are better spells to cast than one that effectively just gives you a free backstab. The Shadowdancer's play style relies on being able to flit in and out of shadows constantly.
    Wowo said:

    he can cast fireballs and skulltraps to emulate a Bounty Hunter

    Would he do this any better than a Cleric/Illusionist or any other arcane caster? Arcane spells are inherently great, but you're not going to give a Mage component to every party member.
    Wowo said:

    he can cast Polymorph Self to emulate a Swashbuckler and an Assassin.

    Can't any arcane caster do that? Wouldn't Cleric/Illusionist actually do it better because of more self-buffs?
    Shadow door gives the free backstab like invisibility with the added benefit of Improved Invisibility and let's you escape from a possibly precarious position (like if you've just backstabbed a Mage surrounded by enemy melee). Alternatively you can combine invisibility and an AoE debuff like web (if you have FoM) or Glitterdust to cast after you backstab from Stealth.

    The point is that you need a thief and an illusionist/thief is one of the best thief characters available.

    A polymorphed spider illusionist/thief can backstab 10 times per round in bg2 with mislead.

    Illusionist/cleric is another of my favourite multi classes so lots of love for that one too, especially considering divine sequencer shenanigans.
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