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The Demon Knight in Durlag's Tower was previously a good knight?

johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 397
edited July 2015 in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
I just killed the Demon Knight (final boss) of Durlag's Tower (he died pretty quick in the SCS version from 3 of my backstabs using Staff of Striking)

image

And one of the items he dropped was the Helm of Opposite Alignment.

So assuming he was wearing the Helm of Opposite Alignment (as I couldn't land any critical BS on him), does that make him previously a good-alignment character?

P.S. I am thinking of letting Dorn wear that helm to make him a good boy. Does that change his character/personality? Anyone tried?

Comments

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    johntyl said:

    (he died pretty quick in the SCS version from 3 of my backstabs using Staff of Striking)

    Props on the shameless bragging. :tongue:
    johntyl said:

    P.S. I am thinking of letting Dorn wear that helm to make him a good boy. Does that change his character/personality? Anyone tried?

    No, I'm afraid that sort of massive amount of effort has never been put into Infinity Engine games (i.e. Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity).
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 397
    edited July 2015
    Quartz said:

    johntyl said:

    (he died pretty quick in the SCS version from 3 of my backstabs using Staff of Striking)

    Props on the shameless bragging. :tongue:

    Hahaa, I just had to share when I saw chunks of the flesh of a Demon Knight flying everywhere.

    Quartz said:

    No, I'm afraid that sort of massive amount of effort has never been put into Infinity Engine games (i.e. Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity).


    A shame. It would have been such a delight if they did so! :disappointed:
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 403
    johntyl said:

    P.S. I am thinking of letting Dorn wear that helm to make him a good boy. Does that change his character/personality? Anyone tried?

    Be aware that a good aligned Blackguard can 'fall'...
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 397
    RAM021 said:



    Be aware that a good aligned Blackguard can 'fall'...

    woah, you just did an Inception on me friend.

    So, an evil Blackguard who is good-aligned can fall into?
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    johntyl said:


    image

    Wait, is it just me, or do you have a *ghost* as your main character?! Imagine the crap that Gorion went through, raising a ghost.
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 403
    johntyl said:

    RAM021 said:



    Be aware that a good aligned Blackguard can 'fall'...

    woah, you just did an Inception on me friend.

    So, an evil Blackguard who is good-aligned can fall into?
    We are good at what we do/did ;-)

    Fall into crappy fighter-hood?

    A good-aligned Blackguard can fall (presumably from 'grace'?) and lose his status as a 'Paladin' and all related abilities if the party's reputation gets too low.

    Some background:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/8009/fallen-paladins/p1

    Typically this issue relates to the PC; we are unsure how or if this would affect Dorn.
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 397
    OlvynChuru said:



    Wait, is it just me, or do you have a *ghost* as your main character?! Imagine the crap that Gorion went through, raising a ghost.

    Whatever happened to Gorion... It was all in his head. the main CHAR never existed... ;)
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 397
    RAM021 said:


    A good-aligned Blackguard can fall (presumably from 'grace'?) and lose his status as a 'Paladin' and all related abilities if the party's reputation gets too low.

    Some background:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/8009/fallen-paladins/p1

    Typically this issue relates to the PC; we are unsure how or if this would affect Dorn.

    Ok I was reading more about Blackguards and if you want to create a blackguard as your main CHAR you can only choose to be evil-aligned. I know that Paladins and Rangers can 'fall' if their reputation gets too low, but for Blackguards does the inverse work then - if your reputation gets too high (heroic for example) you will 'fall' as a Blackguard and lose your abilities?

    To make this even more mind-boggling, if the above is true, then does making your main CHAR (who is a Blackguard) wear the Helm of Opposite Alignment (which then makes him good-aligned) exclude him from the 'falling' penalty?
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 403
    johntyl said:

    RAM021 said:


    A good-aligned Blackguard can fall (presumably from 'grace'?) and lose his status as a 'Paladin' and all related abilities if the party's reputation gets too low.

    Some background:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/8009/fallen-paladins/p1

    Typically this issue relates to the PC; we are unsure how or if this would affect Dorn.

    Ok I was reading more about Blackguards and if you want to create a blackguard as your main CHAR you can only choose to be evil-aligned. I know that Paladins and Rangers can 'fall' if their reputation gets too low, but for Blackguards does the inverse work then - if your reputation gets too high (heroic for example) you will 'fall' as a Blackguard and lose your abilities?

    To make this even more mind-boggling, if the above is true, then does making your main CHAR (who is a Blackguard) wear the Helm of Opposite Alignment (which then makes him good-aligned) exclude him from the 'falling' penalty?
    No
    No
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    It's actually quite a fun playthrough to do a 'good' blackguard.

    IE: Lawful Evil, someone who has sold his soul to destroy evil. Anyone 'evil' who begs for mercy? Kill them. Take the most brutal ways for all paths. Go out of your way to destroy the shadow thieves after using them. You'll likely end up with a really high reputation...which won't matter at all for your blackguard status.
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    Grum said:

    It's actually quite a fun playthrough to do a 'good' blackguard.

    This makes me think of the movie ''Solomon Kane''. Good evil characters are interesting.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,580
    johntyl said:



    So assuming he was wearing the Helm of Opposite Alignment (as I couldn't land any critical BS on him), does that make him previously a good-alignment character?

    In the original (pre-EE) version of the game, the helm would only drop as an Easter egg if you succeeded in killing the Knight when you first meet him at the top of Durlag's Tower (there's apparently a trick to killing him there - someone else would have to give the details though).

    EE changed the game so that the helm always drops no matter when you kill him.

    It's interesting to think that the Knight was once a "good" knight who was corrupted by this cursed piece of equipment, sort of like Brage - it allows you to create a backstory for him in your own mind. Perhaps he was originally one of Durlag's loyal sentry guards, who mistakenly tried on this helm from among Durlag's looted treasures and became evil?

  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 397
    SharGuidesMyHand said:



    It's interesting to think that the Knight was once a "good" knight who was corrupted by this cursed piece of equipment, sort of like Brage - it allows you to create a backstory for him in your own mind. Perhaps he was originally one of Durlag's loyal sentry guards, who mistakenly tried on this helm from among Durlag's looted treasures and became evil?

    Then he would have to be Durlag's right-hand man or one of his strongest fighter/mages. It would be great if there is more of a backstory to this.

    I hope Beamdog puts more love into creating more Easter eggs in the upcoming SoD!
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 397
    Francois said:

    Grum said:

    It's actually quite a fun playthrough to do a 'good' blackguard.

    This makes me think of the movie ''Solomon Kane''. Good evil characters are interesting.
    Well, the margin between what is good or bad is usually a grey one. An 'evil' outlaw might be wrongly accused by corrupted powers but is inherently good. I might actually go for a good blackguard for my next CHAR :)
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2015
    I think the majority of evil mortals are not really averse to doing good things most of the time. They just don't mind doing evil things when they need to. That's why it's impossible to really know the alignement of someone.

    About the helmet, the knight is actually a demon and not a mortal knight. I don't know if the helmet would work on a celestial outsiders but I don't imagine it would. And it would turn them into a fallen whatever and not a demon. I think the demon just has it and he might use it on some mortal servants to turn them evil.

  • AlmateriaAlmateria Member Posts: 257
    edited August 2015
    Francois said:

    I don't know if the helmet would work on a celestial outsiders but I don't imagine it would.

    To quote a certain video game:
    Should the legions of evil ever force one onto the head of a benevolent solar, the multiverse, as we know it, will surely meet an abrupt and painful end.
    But then you fight an evil Solar in ToB and nobody bats an eye. Consistency!
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    Oh I didn't remember the description. But any cleric could fix the solar with a remove curse spell anyway, so no big deal even if it works.

    I know fiends and celestial can change alignement (I've hear some stories about a good marilith somewhere), but since alignement changes are not a natural thing for them I imagined they are much less likely to be sensitive to that item. It's not like a race that has a fluid alignement that can easily be changed
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