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Windows 10 - COM surrogate issue

MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,017
I don't know where to post this.

Since the November major update, Microsoft Windows 10 has many problems with its own "sandboxing" feature.
It has an impact on weidu. A Weidu executable is able to detect and upgrade other weidu executable programs found in the same directory (provided you have the right and/or ownership to do so) but now it cannot upgrade itself. You may have to run two different setup-somemod.exe files without installing anything in order to auto-upgrade all your weidu executables.

This is a widespread issue, not something specific to weidu. Apparently MS is not willing to fix this long standing issue. The underlying ideology is mimicking Android: you are too dumb to control your own system and to manage its security.

JuliusBorisovGrammarsaladargent77Erg

Comments

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,509
    Thanks for the information. I'll be sure not to update to windows 10

    JuliusBorisovMusigny
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,809
    Good to know. There are more and more reasons not to upgrade to Windows 10.

    GrammarsaladJuliusBorisovMusigny
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    Yeah Win7 is performing perfectly well for me.

    On the other hand this might be a good time to revisit the standard practice for mid installation.

    On OS X, my Weidu Launcher applet uses a single version of weidu for all mods; whatever version is shipped with them is simply discarded. (At some point I want to code the applet to automatically download the most recent version available - if anyone around here knows OS X and wants to help, such as @AstroBryGuy, let's talk.)

    So in this paradigm, mods don't have to ship with Weidu at all; all they need is a .tp2 files and, if necessary, supporting files.

    I don't know if BWS does the same thing, but presumably it could.

    GrammarsaladMusignyAstroBryGuy
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    Musigny said:

    Apparently MS is not willing to fix this long standing issue. The underlying ideology is mimicking Android: you are too dumb to control your own system and to manage its security.

    This!

    I've been using dual boot systems with Windows and Linux for over a decade, but it looks like my next one will have just Linux.

    Musignygorgonzola
  • smady3smady3 Member Posts: 39
    I'm currently using win 10, Weidu does not have any problems updating, reinstalled mods to confirm.
    May be its the user account controls causing the problem.

    Musigny
  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 478
    @smady3 do your mods have different weidu versions ?
    According to Musigny it only bugs in that specific case.

    Musigny
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,017
    edited February 2016
    It is not about the mod itself, just the exe file.
    COM surrogate has an issue that most people meet when they try to remove the meta info from a file.
    Such has removing some data from a picture using the windows/explorer interface (properties/details/remove meta info and copy the file). The upgrade can not occur because the process is denied the right to overwrite the file (more exactly copy and paste a copy).
    It happens on fresh a install of Win 10, it is not the result of a specific configuration by the user.

    For sure you can install and play mods, my own BG(2)EE installations are on windows 10.

    The typical case I am experiencing:
    Unpack a couple of weidu mods, run one of them from the command line.
    Failure to auto-update (other files would be updated):
    image

    Moreover a process (not the one you launched!) remains non terminated:
    image


    Actually perhaps not the COM surrogate itself but a function/services used in both cases.
    And it does not seem to be a simple and basic ACL issue because a) it is clean afaik and b) all files have the same rights c) no resident antivirus or the like d) occurs on directory trees the acls of which have never been updated by the user.

    I use a Unix-like system on a daily basis and I might have lost some experience on Windows (used for games and MS Visio or when I need flash) but there is clearly a problem here and I ahve been experiencing the issue since the November release.
    I would be glad to know that people have no issue with Win10, that would help the problem determination.
    The main difficulty is that I have no particular modification of the base install, except the parameters to shut up many apps which communicate with MS servers on the Internet. It was not sufficient (I have seen default install having more than one connection per minute to Microsoft) and I ended up filtering at the gateway firewall level but I digress.

    Post edited by Musigny on
    JuliusBorisov
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414

    Yeah Win7 is performing perfectly well for me.

    On the other hand this might be a good time to revisit the standard practice for mid installation.

    On OS X, my Weidu Launcher applet uses a single version of weidu for all mods; whatever version is shipped with them is simply discarded. (At some point I want to code the applet to automatically download the most recent version available - if anyone around here knows OS X and wants to help, such as @AstroBryGuy, let's talk.)

    So in this paradigm, mods don't have to ship with Weidu at all; all they need is a .tp2 files and, if necessary, supporting files.

    I don't know if BWS does the same thing, but presumably it could.

    @subtledoctor - I don't want to derail a thread about Windows to talk about OSX, but I think something could be worked out with cURL or git (cURL has been included in OSX I think since the start, and git is included since Mavericks). It would need a standard download location of the WeiDU binary, perhaps on GitHub.

    We can take this to another thread or PM.

    Musigny
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,017
    As far as I am concerned you can derail the thread, no problem.
    A public discussion about a new weidu distribution system is welcome, here or elsewhere.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    edited February 2016
    @AstroBryGuy using cURL is precisely what I was thinking of. I'm fairly sure Weidu is up on Github (need to double-check); if so, it would be fairly simple to have the app find and download the most recent stable release automatically. Then players would only need our app, and mods would only need a .tp2 script.

    More complicated - at least, I don't know how to do it right now - we would want to be able to inspect the existing Weidu binary to determine its version, and compare it to what's available on Github. And we would need to make sure the update fails gracefully and the app continues with installation in the event there is no internet connection.

    All of that is certainly possible within the AppleScript app, it might just take a few weeks to code and test. Unfortunately I don't have the time to get it done. :(

    And if it's possible to do in AppleScript, it is surely also possible to make a similar little Windows app. (This is the paragraph that make this post germane to the thread. :tongue: )

    Looking forward from there, the next steps would be to add code to auto-detect valid game directories in which to install mods. (I've been talking about that forever, I know.) And for user convenience, we should code the app to add an asterisk to the displayed name of apps that are already installed. (Maybe poll weidu.log for this.)

    After that, download a standard mod install order - I think the BWS guys might have something published on the web - to govern the list of mods displayed by the app. Finally, wrap the mod list and Terminal process in a simple UI with XCode, and voila! We would have an actual OS X version of BWS. We even already have an OS X version of the BWPFixPack being worked on right now!

    Then, here's the pie-in-the-sky idea: code this all up as an iOS app, and use iOS9 inter-app communications to transfer the modded files to the iPad game without jailbreaking!

    ...

    Heh, what-? Uh, sorry, I nodded off and started dreaming there...

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414
    edited February 2016
    @subtledoctor - While you're dreaming, don't forget automatically fetching binaries for iconv, oggdec, sox, and tisunpack. :wink:

    Getting the weidu version of the binary is easy, "./weidu --version". That outputs a string to stdout in the format:
    WeiDU version 23800
    Use a cURL command to api.github.com can get information on the latest release.
    curl https://api.github.com/repos/[OWNER]/[REPO]/releases/latest | grep tag_name
    This returns a string of the format:
      "tag_name": "v14.0_beta_160124",
    If the tag_name is set to a string like the WeiDU version number, e.g., "23800", it is should be easy to compare versions and see if a new download is needed.

  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    For those planning to avoid this by simply not upgrading to Windows 10, beware that Microsoft will be pushing that upgrade on you automatically from Monday, unless you have 'fixed' your automatic updates setting. Think of Windows 10 as the latest security patch on steroid...

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/02/microsoft_ups_pressure_win_10_holdouts

    MusignyErgGrammarsalad
  • ALIENALIEN Member Posts: 1,024
    Wisp will just adjust WeiDU for the new memory management scheme and the problem will go away. No need to demonize Widows 10. It is much better than Windows 7 and because of windows-as-service model, it will be much better in the future.

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited February 2016
    ALIEN said:

    Widows 10. It is much better than Windows 7 and because of windows-as-service model, it will be much better in the future.

    Well, maybe that's true for the average casual user, but definitely not for power users. For those the best Microsoft OS is Windows XP (or at lest it would be if it was still supported), with Windows 7 second best.

    I'm a control freak, so guess which OS I personally prefer :smile:

    For those planning to avoid this by simply not upgrading to Windows 10, beware that Microsoft will be pushing that upgrade on you automatically from Monday, unless you have 'fixed' your automatic updates setting.

    Disabling the automatic updates (so I can pick and choose) is really the first thing I did on my OS (together with disabling the UAC), but thanks for the heads-up anyway.

    GrammarsaladAstroBryGuyMusigny
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,164
    edited February 2016
    ALIEN said:

    No need to demonize Widows 10.

    I agree, it CAN be better for SOME users.
    If something has to be demonized (imho) is MS, not Win10, as going from 7 to 10 imo is not an upgrade of an OS, but an upgrade to a different OS. MS had offered in the recent past the OPTION to upgrade to 10, and that was fine and fair. To FORCE in that stealthy way the upgrade to people who had chosen to refuse it is no more fine and fair. An user of an OS is not supposed to have to defend himself from the OS developer, to be denied to the right of continuing to use what he had chosen and had payed for, to have to disable an useful functionality like the automatic updates.

    Edited to add the imho

    Post edited by gorgonzola on
    GrammarsaladMusigny
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