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Enemies alignment and Pale Justice

ElvenbladeElvenblade Member Posts: 21
edited February 2016 in Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
Hello there, so I recently got the enhanced edition of this though I've played through the original several times back in the day.

However it seems the EE still has the same problem with enemies not having the right alignment. Several spells and weapons have different effects depending on the targets alignment, more often than not my paladins smite evil ability has no effect and I've had instances where the cleric spell smite evil (not sure about name) has just bounced of undead enemies. I mean, what's more evil than undead?

With the above mentioned taken into consideration, is Pale Justice any better than any other +4 sword (+7 vs evil)

Comments

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,154
    In terms of alignment, many "mindless" undead like Zombies and skeletons are just neutral. In a PnP game, a DM might rule the negative energy of an undead is innately evil and treat even mindless undead as evil for certain things (I know I would), but the Infinity Engine is not quite that sophisticated!

    Pale Justice does also bestow some immunities. I don't recall what all other +4 swords there are, but it does seem I always have a Paladin using Pale Justice by the end of the game. Even if it isn't "the best", it is very good.
  • MivsanMivsan Member Posts: 139
    edited February 2016
    From my observations, in IWD most "lower tier"/generic undead are neutral. It makes sense, they are usually raised by some outside force, having to mindlessly obey. For example, when you kill Lysan in the Vale of Shadows, the spirits thank you, as they can then rest, instead of having to follow "the call", which they can't even explain.

    The higher tier undead, like mummies, zombie lords etc. are evil.

    Same goes for other minions/servants. For example, Lizard Men are neutral, while their king is evil.

    A special case of "undead" spirits are the shadowed elves in Severed Hand - they're of good alignment.

    Other than the stance on undead, I haven't really noticed any "wrong" alignments. Usually, whomever I think is evil, ends up getting damaged by Smite Evil. So, major villains (like Lysan, Presio, Terikan, Malavon, Belhifet etc.), clerics of Talona, Kraken Society mages, priest-mages of Vheraun - all of them are evil.

    If you're familiar with EE Keeper, you may easily check the alignments of different opponents by using its creature browser.

    As for swords, Pale Justice pales (:+P) in comparison to Long Sword of Action +4 (in the expansion content). Other than that there's the two variants of the +5 sword of Aihonen, if you need a good all-around sword with some fire/cold resistances.

    Generally, I think you get Pale Justice way too late. For me, it pretty much only gets used for a little bit, mostly against Cyclopses in Easthaven (they're evil) and Belhifet. Maybe a tiny bit in Lower Dorn's Deep if I specifically go for it as early as possible. Then, if I progress into Heart of Winter, a lot of opponents are neutral (barbarians, trolls, yetis, the remorhaz, etc.) so I switch to Aihonen's sword until I get the Long Sword of Action +4, which is pretty much the best weapon in the game. There are two copies of it - if you go into the Trials of the Luremaster, you can get one really early.

    Edit - Oh, that's of course when comparing weapons 1 for 1. No one said you can't wield Pale Justice/Aihonen in your main hand, while having LSoA in your offhand, for example. Or if you have more long sword users, you can have your Paladin fight with Pale Justice, and the others use Aihonen/LSoA, etc.
    Post edited by Mivsan on
  • ElvenbladeElvenblade Member Posts: 21
    Oh, ok. Guess it makes sense. While we're speaking about alignments, what about the cleric spell "righteous wrath of the faithful"? Say a lawful good cleric casts the spell, would any ally also have to be lawful good or is neutral- and chaotic good enough?
  • inethineth Member Posts: 707
    One of the immunities of Pale Justice helps against the hardest enemies in the Heart of Winter expansion. Just something to keep in mind.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Elvenblade said:

    Oh, ok. Guess it makes sense. While we're speaking about alignments, what about the cleric spell "righteous wrath of the faithful"? Say a lawful good cleric casts the spell, would any ally also have to be lawful good or is neutral- and chaotic good enough?

    Any good alignment suffices. I wish I could get more mileage out of this spell but either the paladin or the Druid always misses out ...
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Building off what @Mivsan said, IWD is actually pretty good about sticking to PnP alignments, and as already mentioned most undead are actually neutral per the rules.

    BG and BG2, on the other hand, were a horrific mess for alignments and needed a lot of adjustments.
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