Most of the dungeons in BG1 are too twisty and narrow. It forces movement and positioning to be a big part of the game. That doesn't really excite me. It's not a huge thing, but especially in BG1 most of the holes in the ground don't excite me much.
I'll absolutely agree with this. Pathfinding is enough of a problem in these games without having the algorithm double people back along the windy halls or sending them down random potentially-still-trapped corridors filled with who knows what monsters. In particular the final Maze before the last area is just inane if you want to leave at some point.
Freaking loved Durlag's Tower and the other well planned out dungeons, though. Sure, they may take a while, but they're so thematic and actually interesting that it's worth it.
Most of the dungeons in BG1 are too twisty and narrow. It forces movement and positioning to be a big part of the game. That doesn't really excite me. It's not a huge thing, but especially in BG1 most of the holes in the ground don't excite me much.
I'll absolutely agree with this. Pathfinding is enough of a problem in these games without having the algorithm double people back along the windy halls or sending them down random potentially-still-trapped corridors filled with who knows what monsters. In particular the final Maze before the last area is just inane if you want to leave at some point.
Freaking loved Durlag's Tower and the other well planned out dungeons, though. Sure, they may take a while, but they're so thematic and actually interesting that it's worth it.
Oh, I can't wait for you to experience the next update. You may change your mind about Firewine after all (I know I did), at least in terms of the pathfinding getting in the way.
I definitely dislike monotonous, corridor-filled dungeons, or physical mazes. I wouldn't enjoy exploring such things in tabletop, and to me these games are supposed to be a kind of analog to that experience. I feel like Firewine needed to be more obviously a kobold breeding ground: kobolds jumping out of holes in the walls, traps that bring down a rain of boulders and salt, and somewhere--somewhere hidden, out of the way, and definitely not easy to get to--somewhere, a dragon's egg, waiting to hatch, surrounded by kobold worshipers.
That's the Firewine I picture in my head; it makes me sad every time I go in there and it's not that.
The best battles happen in the dungeons. My favorite battle of the entire series is against the tanar'ri on the third level of Watcher's Keep. The anticipation of a big fight always keeps me interested in dungeons. Every puzzle I solve, every key that I pick up, every room that I wander into is one step towards something big. It always keeps me on my toes, and always keeps me focused. I'm at my best when I have to consider every move I make.
Most of them are hideous. Firewine is the best example of it. But some others, like Durlag's Tower, Firkraag's Lair, Bodhi's Hideout and Watcher's Keep, are very amazing.
And about IWD: there's not a single dungeon in that game that I don't like.
Most of them are hideous. Firewine is the best example of it. But some others, like Durlag's Tower, Firkraag's Lair, Bodhi's Hideout and Watcher's Keep, are very amazing.
And about IWD: there's not a single dungeon in that game that I don't like.
Dragon's Eye and Lower Dorn's Deep are pretty epic. Visually beautiful as well.
Oh, I can't wait for you to experience the next update. You may change your mind about Firewine after all (I know I did), at least in terms of the pathfinding getting in the way.
Since the topic is in the BG1 category, I'll limit my thoughts to that game's dungeon content.
Firewine - I like the idea and how it looks all explored on the map, but what I like better is going in through Jenkal's home, killing the ogre-mage and his mage lackey and getting out of there. I'm sorry dead spirits. Also, I hate the SCS component that makes you go through the dungeon "properly".
Ulcaster - I like it. There's not so many super tight corridors, it's short and sweet, and SCS gives it a fun battle at the end.
Durlag's Tower - I find myself skipping it every other playthrough nowadays. I generally like it, but that level 2... I love the idea behind it, the spooky atmosphere and how you learn about what happened, but after playing it many times, I simply can't find the strength to do all that corridor opening/closing business sometimes.
Baldur's Gate sewers - since it's the "urban man's dungeon", I might as well include that here. As much as I like talking to Schlumpsha and the gang, I'm afraid most of my characters never get to meet them, as I employ the "Firewine strategy" of taking the sewer entrance near Sorcerous Sundries, killing the ogre-mage, and getting out of there.
Anti-magic island - despite its similarity to Firewine, the fights are better, so I like to do it every now and again. Shandalar's daughters are unaware, but if I spare them, it's because I don't want to get sent there.
Candlekeep catacombs - the corridors aren't as narrow, so that's a plus. I like the place a lot for its atmosphere, some nice goodies you get and the nostalgia/sentiment, since I remember how spooked I was as a kid the first time playing through it and meeting the Candlekeep crew again :+). On the level below, there's a nice fight against Prat and co. (it rhymes). And after that, all that's left to do is to head straight for the exit, kill Diarmid for insulting my intellect and experience the great feeling of being free once again. What's not to like?
Oh, I can't wait for you to experience the next update. You may change your mind about Firewine after all (I know I did), at least in terms of the pathfinding getting in the way.
Durlag's Tower - I find myself skipping it every other playthrough nowadays. I generally like it, but that level 2... I love the idea behind it, the spooky atmosphere and how you learn about what happened, but after playing it many times, I simply can't find the strength to do all that corridor opening/closing business sometimes.
Sadly, I find myself doing the same these days. It's really in an unfortunate spot in the game where its just brutal early on (cloudkill on B1 when doing the boss fight, I'm looking at you. Dang Ironman runs...), and by the time you are at the 90k XP the dungeon is designed around, you could beat the game and move on to Baldur's Gate 2, which is going to strip most of the fancy loot anyway, Flame Sword +1/+4 being the exception.
Lets keep this in perspective. Its amazing to get 5 replays of a game or area. That said, yeah, dungeons can be tedious. I much prefer the cities, those in BGI especially. Also, out of all the dungeons, I like Firewine more than most of the others. The narrow corridors make it uncomfortable, creepy.
Someone mentioned ecosystem. Yeah, I like that notion in a dungeon. Ulcaster has that really well. It makes sense to me.
Except for Durlag's Tower there's no good dungeons in BG1 IMHO.
I have some OCD about BG1 that makes me beat every hostil creature in every area and clear all the fog of war (those impossible to clear I use CConsole, but only those). So yeah, I struggle sometimes in every replay.
I've tried to ignore Firewine once. When I was about to have my final battle with Sarevok I saw myself going all the way back to clear that place.
@Raduziel You're the opposite of me, then. I'm not a completionist at all, and I only do quests if I feel they are worth the experience or rewards. I rarely ever go into the Firewine dungeon because it just isn't worth it.
You're right. I somehow only had optional content on my mind and completely forgot about both Cloakwood and Nashkel mines.
Nashkel mines - has that cool "first dungeon" feel, I have a lot of nostalgia for the place. The only problem (which never really bothered me, though) is that, if you want to explore around, there's pretty much no point, as aside from the main path where you need to go, it's kind of empty. Cool fight with the classy gentleman, Mulahey (right click on him a couple of times to see what I mean, if you've never done it).
Cloakwood mines - I like that place too. It has a nice atmosphere, it's cool to explore the mine and how it develops into an underground base, you get to give some bed-related advice, rescue Yeslick and have a cool fight with Daveorn (and listen to his awesome laugh - again, right click).
Durlag's Tower - I find myself skipping it every other playthrough nowadays. I generally like it, but that level 2... I love the idea behind it, the spooky atmosphere and how you learn about what happened, but after playing it many times, I simply can't find the strength to do all that corridor opening/closing business sometimes.
Sadly, I find myself doing the same these days. It's really in an unfortunate spot in the game where its just brutal early on (cloudkill on B1 when doing the boss fight, I'm looking at you. Dang Ironman runs...), and by the time you are at the 90k XP the dungeon is designed around, you could beat the game and move on to Baldur's Gate 2, which is going to strip most of the fancy loot anyway, Flame Sword +1/+4 being the exception.
Yeah, I'm kind of like Raduziel in the sense that I like to do everything there is to do in the game, and if I decide to skip something, it's kind of a big deal. But as time went on, Durlag's Tower somehow stopped being as much fun for me and I figured that if I'm not feeling it, then it's better to leave it for another playthrough. Like you said, there's really not much to gain from it, you're probably close to the end of the playthrough anyway, the loot isn't anything that special (and it's not going to last long) and some parts feel a bit tedious. I really only do it for the cool fights in the dungeon and afterwards - with the cult and Aec'letec himself.
i get restartitis when it's time for Durlag's Tower. Just feels tedious to go through all the puzzles again. but with SOD around the corner should i force my way through it? lol
i get restartitis when it's time for Durlag's Tower. Just feels tedious to go through all the puzzles again. but with SOD around the corner should i force my way through it? lol
You know, I hadn't considered that. Assuming we aren't stripped naked again at the beginning, having all that sweet sweet loot from Durlag's will actually do some good.
I think part of the problem of most dungeons in BG1 is that the traps are really, really deadly: Lightning Bolt has the potential to kill anything not immune, and even the Fireballs are enough to kill the thieves that are supposed to disarm them. The only solutions, I feel, is either to use a guide, or spend forever and ever walking like 5 inches, waiting 6 seconds for traps, walking 5 inches, rinse and repeat. Or go solo with a character that just so happens to have fire, electric, Web, and Magic Missile immunities.
BG2... OK, traps are just as deadly with Prismatic Spray, Petrification, and Disintegrate traps. But with the exception of the Petrification trap, they're in reasonable locations. Kinda. Or maybe I just have more knowledge of BG2 and I don't mind that there're random doors in Athkatla that kill you as soon as you touch them. But I really do think it's the "Oh, just walking along... Wait, everyone dies!" random traps that really bother me in dungeons. Probably also why I dislike the Wild Magic Forest map with that stupid, stupid repeating Fireball trap in the middle of nowhere.
You can take a Wizard, cast Protection from Electricity, Protection from Fire, Haste, Invisibility, Shield and disarm everything you find. Now and there you'll take some missile damage, but if you want to go paranoid you can cast Protection From Normal Missiles too.
And that is the way I always take the book for Ulcaster.
I like the expansive well developed dungeons that have story and feel more than hack and slash. Durlags Tower being the best example and Candlekeep catscombs second, those are just great. I really detest corridor dungeons like Firewine Ruins, Ulcaster and thieves warren. The rest in BG1 im indifferent too (mines, sewers are okay but I dont exactly look forward to them). In BG2 I generally like them all.
Comments
Freaking loved Durlag's Tower and the other well planned out dungeons, though. Sure, they may take a while, but they're so thematic and actually interesting that it's worth it.
I definitely dislike monotonous, corridor-filled dungeons, or physical mazes. I wouldn't enjoy exploring such things in tabletop, and to me these games are supposed to be a kind of analog to that experience. I feel like Firewine needed to be more obviously a kobold breeding ground: kobolds jumping out of holes in the walls, traps that bring down a rain of boulders and salt, and somewhere--somewhere hidden, out of the way, and definitely not easy to get to--somewhere, a dragon's egg, waiting to hatch, surrounded by kobold worshipers.
That's the Firewine I picture in my head; it makes me sad every time I go in there and it's not that.
Most of them are hideous. Firewine is the best example of it. But some others, like Durlag's Tower, Firkraag's Lair, Bodhi's Hideout and Watcher's Keep, are very amazing.
And about IWD: there's not a single dungeon in that game that I don't like.
Firewine - I like the idea and how it looks all explored on the map, but what I like better is going in through Jenkal's home, killing the ogre-mage and his mage lackey and getting out of there. I'm sorry dead spirits.
Also, I hate the SCS component that makes you go through the dungeon "properly".
Ulcaster - I like it. There's not so many super tight corridors, it's short and sweet, and SCS gives it a fun battle at the end.
Durlag's Tower - I find myself skipping it every other playthrough nowadays. I generally like it, but that level 2... I love the idea behind it, the spooky atmosphere and how you learn about what happened, but after playing it many times, I simply can't find the strength to do all that corridor opening/closing business sometimes.
Baldur's Gate sewers - since it's the "urban man's dungeon", I might as well include that here. As much as I like talking to Schlumpsha and the gang, I'm afraid most of my characters never get to meet them, as I employ the "Firewine strategy" of taking the sewer entrance near Sorcerous Sundries, killing the ogre-mage, and getting out of there.
Anti-magic island - despite its similarity to Firewine, the fights are better, so I like to do it every now and again. Shandalar's daughters are unaware, but if I spare them, it's because I don't want to get sent there.
Candlekeep catacombs - the corridors aren't as narrow, so that's a plus. I like the place a lot for its atmosphere, some nice goodies you get and the nostalgia/sentiment, since I remember how spooked I was as a kid the first time playing through it and meeting the Candlekeep crew again :+).
On the level below, there's a nice fight against Prat and co. (it rhymes). And after that, all that's left to do is to head straight for the exit, kill Diarmid for insulting my intellect and experience the great feeling of being free once again. What's not to like?
Someone mentioned ecosystem. Yeah, I like that notion in a dungeon. Ulcaster has that really well. It makes sense to me.
I have some OCD about BG1 that makes me beat every hostil creature in every area and clear all the fog of war (those impossible to clear I use CConsole, but only those). So yeah, I struggle sometimes in every replay.
I've tried to ignore Firewine once. When I was about to have my final battle with Sarevok I saw myself going all the way back to clear that place.
Don't judge me.
Nashkel mines - has that cool "first dungeon" feel, I have a lot of nostalgia for the place. The only problem (which never really bothered me, though) is that, if you want to explore around, there's pretty much no point, as aside from the main path where you need to go, it's kind of empty. Cool fight with the classy gentleman, Mulahey (right click on him a couple of times to see what I mean, if you've never done it).
Cloakwood mines - I like that place too. It has a nice atmosphere, it's cool to explore the mine and how it develops into an underground base, you get to give some bed-related advice, rescue Yeslick and have a cool fight with Daveorn (and listen to his awesome laugh - again, right click). Yeah, I'm kind of like Raduziel in the sense that I like to do everything there is to do in the game, and if I decide to skip something, it's kind of a big deal. But as time went on, Durlag's Tower somehow stopped being as much fun for me and I figured that if I'm not feeling it, then it's better to leave it for another playthrough.
Like you said, there's really not much to gain from it, you're probably close to the end of the playthrough anyway, the loot isn't anything that special (and it's not going to last long) and some parts feel a bit tedious. I really only do it for the cool fights in the dungeon and afterwards - with the cult and Aec'letec himself.
BG2... OK, traps are just as deadly with Prismatic Spray, Petrification, and Disintegrate traps. But with the exception of the Petrification trap, they're in reasonable locations. Kinda. Or maybe I just have more knowledge of BG2 and I don't mind that there're random doors in Athkatla that kill you as soon as you touch them. But I really do think it's the "Oh, just walking along... Wait, everyone dies!" random traps that really bother me in dungeons. Probably also why I dislike the Wild Magic Forest map with that stupid, stupid repeating Fireball trap in the middle of nowhere.
You can take a Wizard, cast Protection from Electricity, Protection from Fire, Haste, Invisibility, Shield and disarm everything you find. Now and there you'll take some missile damage, but if you want to go paranoid you can cast Protection From Normal Missiles too.
And that is the way I always take the book for Ulcaster.