Has anyone here besides me doesn't enjoy dungeons at all?

O_Bruce

There is something that always was there with me in years of adventures with BG1. My utter dislike for dungeons.

While I feel like majority of crpg players, while beating these dungeons are like "yaaaaaay!" I'm more like "Geee, what a pain in the arse...". For some reasons, the dungeons in BG1/BGEE aren't appealing to me somehow. While I can easily say that, for example, Firewine Ruins or Ulcaster's dungeon had very unimpressive design, I have no idea why apparently more epic ones, like Durlag's Tower, still aren't appealing to me. In my current playthrough I'm in Durlag's Tower and I spend 10, maybe 15 minutes in each session before I start feeling like doing a chore and shutting off my game.

The other thing that might effectively reduce my enjoyment with these may be the freaking pathfinding...

And I am wondering, is there anyone like me? You know, the person who dislikes going through various dungeons in BG:EE? Or is there a person that used to, but is no longer? I would like to know, since I feel very lonely at this.

Shrake907

Corridors suck, Durlag's is fun.
Just my take on it.

elminster

I don't mind single level (or even two level) dungeons if they are interesting. Its when they hit three levels that I go "ugh". So I've never really liked Durlag's or Watcher's Keep for precisely that reason.

Yamcha

@elminster not a big fan of Diablo (1) then ?

For me it always depends on the game and how its designed.

Good Dungeons:
Diablo, superb athmosphere!
Grimrock, whole game is one dungeon, never got boring.
Gothic, sparse to find but always worthwile to explore.
First Fallout games had great dungeons, brimming with pre-war tech and information

Bad ones:
Elder Scrolls 3+ , boring, random loot, generic dungeons, too many to visit, but no real purpose behind it.

Kamigoroshi

"Dungeons" I don't mind. To be more specific those which possess their own, well thought out ecosystem at least. It's always nice to explore dark, damp and weathered places with an intact "foodchain". The Planar Sphere did really well in that regard. Same goes to various layers of the Endless Paths of Od Nua in PoE.

Historical dungeons however feel rather bland to me. After all... they're nothing more than a couple of cells or catacombs below castles and such. Not really places that draw my attention per se. Not really into the history of materials science. At all.

If we're talking about labyrinths and mazes though, then, yes: I bloody hate them all! No questions asked! Never was a dungeon crawler lover in the literal sense... the very reason as to why I despise Undermountain in HotU so much that I won't even bother to pick loot there. Speedrunning into the Underdark is all I care there.

Nonnahswriter

I'm not much of a dungeon fan either. Like elminster, I can go a few levels in one sitting, but once it surpasses three floors, I'm pretty much done.

It helps if the combat is really fun, like in the .hack games, or if there's a story-related goal waiting for me at the end, like most dungeons in Golden Sun. Otherwise, I just feel like it's a lot of stupid work.

I really enjoyed Durlag's Tower the first couple of run-throughs, but after doing the map so many times, I've actually come to dread tackling it, because I know it's so long. Haven't tried Watcher's Keep yet, but I have a feeling it'll be the same as Durlag's; cool the first couple times, a chore after that.

abacus

Nonnahswriter said:

I'm not much of a dungeon fan either. Like elminster, I can go a few levels in one sitting, but once it surpasses three floors, I'm pretty much done.

It helps if the combat is really fun, like in the .hack games, or if there's a story-related goal waiting for me at the end, like most dungeons in Golden Sun. Otherwise, I just feel like it's a lot of stupid work.

I really enjoyed Durlag's Tower the first couple of run-throughs, but after doing the map so many times, I've actually come to dread tackling it, because I know it's so long. Haven't tried Watcher's Keep yet, but I have a feeling it'll be the same as Durlag's; cool the first couple times, a chore after that.

Watcher's Keep is different as each level has its own exit... So you can do them one by one interspersed with other quests or (more likely) selling/healing runs.

O_Bruce

So, I'm not really alone after all. But just to make things clear:

I don't dislike dungeons in general. I dislike dungeons in first Baldur's Gate game. For some reason, I don't have issues with dungeons in Baldur's Gate 2. Funny enough, I've beat Watcher's Keep many more times than Durlag's Tower, and I think I had more playthroughs/attempt on Baldur's Gate 1.

@Yamcha
Randomnized dungeons, like in Diablo games, are utterly OK with me. Diablo is whole different game from Baldur's Gate, thou.

@Nonnahswriter
I had something different. For me Durlag's Tower was always a chore from the beginning. I played first BG1, with even worse pathfinding than now and worst of all, the doors and switches thing on level 2 bugged on me. I was trapped. And my last backup save was.... long ago.

[Deleted User]

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elminster

Yamcha said:

@elminster not a big fan of Diablo (1) then ?

When I was a lot younger I loved Diablo 1. But if I were to go back to it today it would feel like a chore to go through it all (though I do suppose the portal system, randomized maps, and enemy/loot randomization present in both Diablo and Torchlight make that kind of a ARPG a lot less tedious).

Nhull

To me, the dungeon crawls require a mindset. You stock up, rest up, and go in knowing you dont come out (unless you like back tracking, which I despise) until its done.

Its a very RP thing for me and in have to get into that frame of mind before I go in. I enjoy Durlags a lot for that reason, there is a story there, and you dont have to play the whole game out to uncover and enjoy it.

atcDave

Most of the dungeons in BG1 are too twisty and narrow. It forces movement and positioning to be a big part of the game. That doesn't really excite me. It's not a huge thing, but especially in BG1 most of the holes in the ground don't excite me much. Including Durlag's. Although I think it is objectively "well designed" and I sure enjoyed it the first time; it is kind of a drag on your umpteenth play through.
In BG2 and IWD the interior spaces strike me as better laid out and less confining; therefore more fun.

brunardo

yeah prefer the outdoors 4 out of 5 times myself and when Im indoors dungeons are the worse

Malus_Darkblade

Some dungeons drag on too long, although I feel BG2EE doesn't have much of that. Sure, sometimes it gets super repetitive and boring. But overall the dungeons are pretty well laid out, with different puzzles and good variety in enemies. Also I feel like the difficulty is never too easy or hard. So to answer your question, I agree to some extent.

dunbar

I generally dislike dungeons because they're always so linear and invariably instil a feeling in me of "Oh God, here we go again, more tedious crawling from one meaningless obstacle to another".
Many dungeons could just as easily be set above ground (they're just a flow diagram after all) which to me would make them more interesting and allow different ways of tackling different problems (but would also mean more work for the DM).
As for mazes, they always seem like very lazy DM-ing, something the DM thought of just before he went to bed so he cut a crossword puzzle out of the paper, pasted it into his dungeon and thought "That'll do".

Ulb

Well, I can't say that I dislike dungeons or the concept of dungeons in general but, as others have said already, BG1 has some major issues when it comes to dungeons.

Firewine is obviously the worst offender.
It can basically be summed up with:
“Hey, wanna see how shitty path-finding/collision behavior is in this game?”
“Hey look, more shitty Kobolds to fight for you – we are sure you've missed them since the Nashkel Mines.”

Ulcaster isn't much better in an unmodded game. No special encounter at all (that is unless you consider a mustard jelly special) and an only slightly less annoying architecture.
At least SCS's Wolf of Ulcaster adds a fun and unique encounter, making the dungeon somewhat fun.

Durlag's is in general a pretty good dungeon in my opinion. The problem is that a lot of its “riddle/challenge” mechanics offer very little replay potential and become tedious and annoying on your 10th playthrough or so.

Twenty

I see every map as a dungeon

OlvynChuru

I personally don't like how the Firewine Ruins, the Ulcaster Ruins, and the cold island cave of the mages all look very similar. If I had no knowledge of the setting and someone showed me the map of all three "dungeons" and said that one of them was a wizard school at one point, I wouldn't be able to identify which one it was.

SirBatince

firewine/ulcaster/iceland are an absolute disaster.

... well I don't need to re-post what's already been said 10 times. Though I suspect these areas made alot more sense with 640x480 screen resolution on at the time. And what's the deal with ulcaster having a super bloody mini-map anyway?

I'm very very glad about Durlag's tower though. Personal favorite of mine. Easily beats even bg2 material such as firkraag's crap hole.

elminster

SirBatince said:

And what's the deal with ulcaster having a super bloody mini-map anyway?

By "super bloody" are you referring to the difficulty or the bodies?

Twenty

You have to include Low Lantern with the 2 idiots(commoners) blocking your party and a lady with the Gauntlets of Ogre Power coming at you.

"GET OUT OF MY WAY, I NEED TO ARRANGE MY PARTY!"

O_Bruce

Twenty said:

You have to include Low Lantern with the 2 idiots(commoners) blocking your party and a lady with the Gauntlets of Ogre Power coming at you.

"GET OUT OF MY WAY, I NEED TO ARRANGE MY PARTY!"

You sir are so right! And your current profile pic summs the situation pretty well!

Ulb said:

Ulcaster isn't much better in an unmodded game. No special encounter at all (that is unless you consider a mustard jelly special) and an only slightly less annoying architecture.
At least SCS's Wolf of Ulcaster adds a fun and unique encounter, making the dungeon somewhat fun.

Ah yes. My recent playthrough was with SCS with tactical challenges and that wolf made otherwise pathetic dungeon actually pretty fun.

meagloth

Durlag and watchers keep where fun the first time, but once you know the story and have all the puzzles memorized it's just a long, frustrating, XP slog with the pathfinding providing the most challenge.

Yann1989

I prefer a succession of short, well-thought dungeons rather than a very big one because it gives me more the feeling of being an adventurer, rather than a tomb raider.

SirBatince

elminster said:

SirBatince said:

And what's the deal with ulcaster having a super bloody mini-map anyway?

By "super bloody" are you referring to the difficulty or the bodies?

In the old BG1 version, if you checked the mini-map inside ulcaster, you could see the blood trails in the halls as very very dark red but once you go back in normal view everything is alot less visible. It feels like they washed down the graphics at some point but forgot to update the mini-map aswell. Unfortunately I have no screenshot at this time.

biffyclanger

My worst nightmare was playing a summoner necromancer in Diablo 2 going to the maggot lair. ...Shudders..., Arcane Sanctury wasn't much better.

Yamcha

@biffyclanger
bone spears made the arcane sanctuary a great farming spot !

O_Bruce

biffyclanger said:

My worst nightmare was playing a summoner necromancer in Diablo 2 going to the maggot lair. ...Shudders..., Arcane Sanctury wasn't much better.

Both locations are a chore, pretty much always.

booinyoureyes

I have never liked dungeons in Baldur's Gate. They always felt like work rather than fun. I much preferred exploring Athkatla or the wild in BGI.

Oddly enough, I love the dungeons in Icewind Dale. I also like the Temple of Amaunator, one of the few exceptions. It might be a matter of quality as well.

Skatan

Never been a huge fan of long dungeons. Remember the first ones in games like FF1 and similar, they were tedious already back then and my take of it haven't really changed since. I agree with Elminster above that a level or two can be fun, but then I start to grow weary and want to breath fresh air :P

I think BG2 has an excellent balance in most cases ('cept Irenicus dungeon, hehe).

Yann1989

Yep, the temple of Amaunator was an exception for me as well. It was very good!