Suggestions For Better Story For BG2.
UnderstandMouseMagic
Member Posts: 2,147
Like most here (probably) I've been playing BG/BG2 far too much recently. But unlike BG, I find myself getting more and more irritated by BG2 and the way the game steamrollers you along a path that doesn't really feel satisfying.
Irenicus is a jerk, wonderful voice acting, but it becomes silly after a while because you know you are going to beat him.
So my ideas for early game at least, would be to start it to mirror BG. Start solo and only as the game evolves do you meet companions organically.
Firkrag would be the early main protagonist. You start on your own, in the upper part of his complex and escape is the only objective.
Pick up Yoshimo?
Out into Windspear, (acorns, I hate hanging on to them for ages knowing Irenicus is raping the nymphs).
Meet Anomen, proper due given to having killed Ajantis, a companion you possible traveled with the whole of BG. Big reason to get to the RH.
First stop Trademeet, pick up Jaheira/Khalid because they are investigating the Druids.
Aerie, enslaved by the Calishmite genies, need the rakasha head to free her.
Move cross country, aiming for Athkatla.
I'd use the starting dungeon for Haer'Dalis imprisonment. The steampunk look matches the planer travel vibe in the planer sphere as well as the prison.
It doesn't fit medievil FR.
The spellhold episode, would prefer that to have something to do with rescuing companions, Edwin for instance for using magic.
I'd like Irenicus to be connected to Firkrag, and the whole nicking your soul and the elven connection, to occur much later game and be better connected. Instead of the ridiculous situation where that is thrown up and then you have the option of wandering around souless (with few negative effects) back to the beginning of the game and simplying taking odd jobs at the Copper Coronet.
One minute you are feeling weak and dizzy, next it's let go through the Underdark (mindflayers et all) and then, lets go do that quest in the Planer Sphere that I didn't do before whilst Sudanessalar is being decimated.
So I'd like to hear other people's ideas for BG2, TBH I've come to the conclusion the story sucks as it is.
Probably just need to take a break.........Noooooooooooo
Irenicus is a jerk, wonderful voice acting, but it becomes silly after a while because you know you are going to beat him.
So my ideas for early game at least, would be to start it to mirror BG. Start solo and only as the game evolves do you meet companions organically.
Firkrag would be the early main protagonist. You start on your own, in the upper part of his complex and escape is the only objective.
Pick up Yoshimo?
Out into Windspear, (acorns, I hate hanging on to them for ages knowing Irenicus is raping the nymphs).
Meet Anomen, proper due given to having killed Ajantis, a companion you possible traveled with the whole of BG. Big reason to get to the RH.
First stop Trademeet, pick up Jaheira/Khalid because they are investigating the Druids.
Aerie, enslaved by the Calishmite genies, need the rakasha head to free her.
Move cross country, aiming for Athkatla.
I'd use the starting dungeon for Haer'Dalis imprisonment. The steampunk look matches the planer travel vibe in the planer sphere as well as the prison.
It doesn't fit medievil FR.
The spellhold episode, would prefer that to have something to do with rescuing companions, Edwin for instance for using magic.
I'd like Irenicus to be connected to Firkrag, and the whole nicking your soul and the elven connection, to occur much later game and be better connected. Instead of the ridiculous situation where that is thrown up and then you have the option of wandering around souless (with few negative effects) back to the beginning of the game and simplying taking odd jobs at the Copper Coronet.
One minute you are feeling weak and dizzy, next it's let go through the Underdark (mindflayers et all) and then, lets go do that quest in the Planer Sphere that I didn't do before whilst Sudanessalar is being decimated.
So I'd like to hear other people's ideas for BG2, TBH I've come to the conclusion the story sucks as it is.
Probably just need to take a break.........Noooooooooooo
1
Comments
I think the way you meet companions is already pretty organic. It's assumed you were travelling with a party in BG1, so having some people be imprisoned with you in the dungeon isn't that unlikely. After getting out you tend to meet them pretty organically (except for the EE NPCs which are thrown at you). To me, it makes no sense for you to be alone and your old companions just off doing their own thing. I imagine that if Jaheira knew you were kidnapped she wouldn't just be "hey, let's go check out these local druids instead of finding the guy we promised our dead friend to protect!" If this was going to be an entirely separate protagonist from BG1 then I can see it working and the various justifications for things happening, but I can't see it working for Charname.
Spoilers I guess even though it's kind of old news:
The elven connection was actually one of the things I never saw coming but I appreciated the hints in retrospect Ellesime clone at the start and the beautiful elven room right after the nymph's forest. That part that made him look so monstrous and confusing also gave him a really tragic air (for me at least) because he's trying to recreate just a little slice of the sylvan wonder he once knew. And this place he tried to make beautiful and elven was twisted just like him. The nymphs weren't free and wild but trapped and abused. The beautiful elven room was the most trapped room in the entire complex. It showed how much that little bit of elf-ness meant to him that anyone stepping foot in this place of his vulnerability and loss was going to die.
I also like the story as is, but I would totally play your mod.
D
I think your idea could be very sound of properly implemented. You would just have to do a lot of coding...I mean a lot.
1) More paths to Spellhold, e.g. there should be a Cowled Wizards route (help them/threaten them enough), and a "government" route (find a way to access key personnel in the Athkatlan council)
2) Imoen should die if you take too long
3) Irenicus in Spellhold is also much stronger if you take too long
4) Fight a proper drow army in the Underdark
5) Bodhi should have an army in Chapter 6 and you should need your stronghold (if you've managed it properly / completed some more specific stronghold quests) to fight her army (e.g. de'Arnise fighters, apprentice mages, animal/druid army etc)
6) You should auto-die through losing your soul if you take too long to get to Irenicus
7) Chapter 7 in Suldanesselar should be more intense, with many more enemies and many more elves to rescue (XP for how many you save with a time limit)
8) Hell should have many more trials and a proper adventure before a mega-battle with Irenicus.
The reason I thought to start with Firkrag is because he comes after you for revenge on Gorion. And I wouldn't reveal till much later that he was a dragon.
You can't enter inside Candlekeep until chapter 6(?)sort of thing, upper dungeons only.
Also there are a load of vampires, I'd like that explained, given reason for rather than "oh it's just weird Firkrag and his collection".
Firkrag>Bodhi>Irenicus>Elves.
BG2 takes place a year after BG, would you still be with the same companions?
Especially Minsc/Dynaheir, you rescue D at M's request, wouldn't they have returned to carrying on with what they were doing?
J and K, harpers, travel all over the place on Harper business, give that up to babysit Charname who is at least 21yo and proven to be capable of looking after themselves?
In fact, J and K, are initially in the area because they have been sent to investigate the iron crisis.
Imoen, yes it makes sense that you would be travelling with her.
The companions chosen to be imprisoned with you by Irenicus is a plot device to split the couples by killing off K and D.
You'd be far more likely to be traveling with some of the NPC's from BG who see "adventuring" as their means of earning a living.
I don't mind disagreement at all.
As I said, I do think my gripes are to do with playing the game a bit too much recently.
I made the topic because on the current playthrough, it became a bit silly to be doing the quests I was doing at the time I was doing them, eventhough I was still enjoying the actual "gaming".
As an example, because I wasn't going to get Edwin, I didn't do the Mar'vai quest at all, it made no sense RPG wise to do it, (good party) but that's quite a chunk to be missing and it not really mattering.
Cowled Wizards. Government. Paladins. Hire your own ship. (Ridiculous that there is one only pirate 'trustworthy' enough to take you, especially as he keeps betraying you)
(2) Agreed!
That always bothered me. Plus I always feel like I 'have' to take her. I mean, apologize to her that you can't take her with you because of party balance? Or leaving another party member behind in spell hold? It's horrendous.
(3) Agreed...
Though I also want the ability to fight him without the other mages. The instant death thing sucked.
(4) Agreed!
At least in Ust Natha if you decide to take the city on...
(5) Agreed!!!
I would love this if it were the case.
(6) Agreed...
Though I'd have it be a real build up. Where you start turning into the slayer without player input, to show that you had best hurry up.
(7) Agreed...
That would indeed be pretty cool. I'd also like to see more elven soldiers fighting drow. It was a nice touch when fleeing the under dark and I wish they had more of it in their own city.
(8) Not so sure.
Resources aren't unlimited and Hell was pretty interesting without enough bonuses involved. Not that I'd complain if there was more...
The problem with putting a "timer" on going to SH, is that it then leads to the Sahaugin City and the Underdark straight after.
A huge odessey that makes returning back to Athkatla and doing smaller quests anti climatic.
Possibly split the UnderDark from the shipwreck?
That would be my ideal.
Get back to the mainland, need to find an entrance to the Underdark, perhaps linking it with the Shade Temple at Ummar Hills?
It says Amaunator and the temple was there to hold the darkness back?
(also that's my favourite bit of "lore" in the whole game, the deseased ones guarding a temple and a God that has been forgotten)
A list should come up of the current users whose names beginnings match as you type.
I always found the whole soul-stealing-via-fancy-steampunk-machine thing to be the worst and cringeworthy story element, and rather see that going away and replaced by some better writing.
For example (and this is just a top-of-the-head suggestion), you could set the time limits to 30 days each. 30 days to get to Imoen before she dies, and 30 days to find Irenicus before you die. That should be plenty of time to do sidequests but not so much that you can take an age over everything and suffer no penalty.
Agree about the "steam punk" look of the first dungeon. And that's going to become more and more jarring with SOD connecting the two games evenmore.
The fact there's a mod "dungeon be gone" which I've seen mentions of many times kind of proves that people aren't happy with the way the game starts.
Does anybody know what the original story was going to be if Imoen had been killed?
As they introduced Nalia, her replacement, quite extensively with a good back story and quest, it must have been quite far down the production route for the change.