A paladin would not cooperate with her. The first time you meet her she commits a capital crime and as a Paladin you are required to uphold the law, unless the law itself is evil.
And even if the paladin believes strongly in redemption, redemptions requires you to first stop offending and then try to make restitution. Hexxat is totally unwilling to do this.
A small correction, if you allow me: Unless she stop kill when feeding. Feed is a need to survive. To kill while she feed is utterly unecessary.
1) Yes, Clara is killed in front of you - but Clara is also a thief - if she wasn't tomb robbing she wouldn't have meet Hexxat. So justice is served.
On the other hand remember that Hexxat has been imprisoned here for a while - and while it is not great that she kills Clara - hungry makes you do stupid things.
2) If you don't have her join you then how do you know she is sneaking out and feeding on people - and of course Aerie is making a conjecture based on what she sees - stains - Hexxat admits that she has killed to feed but does not say she is doing it so at the moment; an of course Aerie is biased against her.
3) I've never had Jan and Hexxat in the same group - so no idea - but if this has happened recently then it is not possible - she has been imprisoned for decades. So either the story is messed up somehow or gnomes live for a really long time.
If none of the discussion (see all the other posts by everyone) has convinced you in the slightest to take Hexxat then there is no taking her. There is no rationalizing it to a paladin if you play as a true ad&d paladin.
I agree that paladins would not cooperate with her - paladins would not tolerate having a vampire in their group - it would be an abhorrence to their paladin-ness - and as such they would come to blows. Actually all evil aligned NPCs would eventually comes to blows with a paladin because of their evilness (as the ad&d rule for paladins says).
So that means no Viconia, Dorn, Edwin, Baeloth and all the other evil NPCs.
And yes, Mazzy gets into conflict with Hexxat but as Neera puts it - its really just to much trouble to live with this overwhelming ethical code.
Being a bigot just because you don't like them doesn't make you a good person and many of the good/lawful NPCs are prejudice against evil characters.
In the end, I suggest listening to Boo - he's a giant space hamster and how can they be wrong.
Remember that if Hexxat joins she does give you the power to destroy her - what does that tell you about her?
Dude, i believe you're going too far. So if i don't take hexxat i'm lawful stupid and attack hexxat is be a bigot?
Look, ok, i'm ok with your opinion. I made this thread exactly to see people opinion about hexxat and compatibility with an paladin.
My conclusion is that Hexxat is totally incompatible, not because she's a vampire, but because she's true evil. If that's related to her vampire status or if she was always evil, that have little consequence, the point is you're a champion of LIGHT and is facing a true representative of EVIL praticing the very act that make it evil.
I could see many paladins taking Nathaniel (NPC mod - wraith lawful neutral zealot NPC), solafein (mod - Drow), viconia (her true self isn't evil, she just don't know that), even kindrek (Roc NPC chaotic evil hate magic above all, make wizard slayer appear as corrupt bitches that love magic), but with the help of this thread i saw hexxat out of limits.
If you had other conclusion based on whichever base you choose to follow, ok. But @magisensei, don't call my play lawful stupid or biased for not agree with your point of view dude!
Dude, i believe you're going too far. So if i don't take hexxat i'm lawful stupid and attack hexxat is be a bigot?
Look, ok, i'm ok with your opinion. I made this thread exactly to see people opinion about hexxat and compatibility with an paladin.
My conclusion is that Hexxat is totally incompatible, not because she's a vampire, but because she's true evil. If that's related to her vampire status or if she was always evil, that have little consequence, the point is you're a champion of LIGHT and is facing a true representative of EVIL praticing the very act that make it evil.
I could see many paladins taking Nathaniel (NPC mod - wraith lawful neutral zealot NPC), solafein (mod - Drow), viconia (her true self isn't evil, she just don't know that), even kindrek (Roc NPC chaotic evil hate magic above all, make wizard slayer appear as corrupt bitches that love magic), but with the help of this thread i saw hexxat out of limits.
If you had other conclusion based on whichever base you choose to follow, ok. But @magisensei, don't call my play lawful stupid or biased for not agree with your point of view dude!
No, I am not saying that your paladin is lawful stupid/biased for not taking Hexxat; I am saying that because she is a vampire that there is prejudice against her.
You said it is because she is "true evil and not because she is a vampire" how do you justify this when you just meet her? The death of Clara - one death and is not enough to justify that she is true evil - so how do you come up with that before you get to know her? The only thing you have to base your findings on when you meet Hexxat is that she dominated and killed Clara and she is a vampire. Is this enough to be considered true evil?
It is the nature of paladins to be against evil creatures and vampires are evil creatures. The bias is built into the paladin class itself if you play it as a paladin should be played and there is nothing wrong with that - its all about role playing after all.
I agree with you that if you play a paladin in they way they should be played then Hexxat would be totally incompatible with a paladin team. Paladins are holy-warriors that don't stand for evil NPC in their party. Is this a type of bias against evil NPCs sure it is - paladins in general don't associate with evil beings because they are evil - they destroy them if possible but being friendly and having them join a team is impossible.
When I said, "Being a bigot just because you don't like them doesn't make you a good person and many of the good/lawful NPCs are prejudice against evil characters." this was referring to the NPCs in the game that wanted to either kill Hexxat or leave the party because she was in it - not referring to your playing.
If you play with another non-paladin PC and then take paladins/lawful characters NPC with you they will eventually be prejudice against Hexxat and this will cause them to either fight her or leave the team - just because she is a vampire - and that is form of prejudice - but they are lawful good so its built into them - they can't help it.
1) Yes, Clara is killed in front of you - but Clara is also a thief - if she wasn't tomb robbing she wouldn't have meet Hexxat. So justice is served.
That is a terrrible argument, since Hexxat herself is a professional tomb robber. Her first quest takes you tomb robbing. Justifying Clara's death with her tomb robbing and then helping Hexxat to the same would make your paladin the greatest hypocrite alive.
On the other hand remember that Hexxat has been imprisoned here for a while - and while it is not great that she kills Clara - hungry makes you do stupid things.
She is pretty rational when you meet her. She even takes the time to talk to Clara before talking with her. And murder "being not great" is sort of an understatement. In real life, an argument like that might possible take you from murder to manslaughter but not more than that.
2) If you don't have her join you then how do you know she is sneaking out and feeding on people - and of course Aerie is making a conjecture based on what she sees - stains - Hexxat admits that she has killed to feed but does not say she is doing it so at the moment; an of course Aerie is biased against her.
Hexxat clearly admits to occassionally killing innocent people in that dialogue. And true, you do not hear it if she is not in your party. But this another point at which a paladin should end this association, and not peacefully.
3) I've never had Jan and Hexxat in the same group - so no idea - but if this has happened recently then it is not possible - she has been imprisoned for decades. So either the story is messed up somehow or gnomes live for a really long time.
And yes, Mazzy gets into conflict with Hexxat but as Neera puts it - its really just to much trouble to live with this overwhelming ethical code.
Being a bigot just because you don't like them doesn't make you a good person and many of the good/lawful NPCs are prejudice against evil characters.
That is why I used Mazzy and not Anomen or Keldorn. Mazzy is the least prejudiced good character in the game and a better example of what a paladin should be like than even Keldorn.
And disliking evil people is not a prejudice; since you dislike them based on what they choose to be.
Remember that if Hexxat joins she does give you the power to destroy her - what does that tell you about her?
Mostly that she is stupid. Given her overarching need to survive, it makes no sense either with a good or an evil party. It certainly does not lessen any of her crimes.
To your question in the other point: dominating and killing a single person is enough to show that you are evil, yes. And even if it did not, it is still a capital crime you will need to pay for.
That is a terrrible argument, since Hexxat herself is a professional tomb robber. Her first quest takes you tomb robbing. Justifying Clara's death with her tomb robbing and then helping Hexxat to the same would make your paladin the greatest hypocrite alive.
It does seem like that doesn't it but you do follow Clara into a tomb in order to complete her quest it is pretty obvious you are raiding someone tomb... so you left in a pinch - do you as a paladin follow her into a tomb knowing that you are raiding it?
She is pretty rational when you meet her. She even takes the time to talk to Clara before talking with her. And murder "being not great" is sort of an understatement. In real life, an argument like that might possible take you from murder to manslaughter but not more than that.
Okay she is rational and coherent no sign of any real affects from being imprisoned really but if the dev had made her into a blood-hungry starving vampire any party would have destroyed her.
Hexxat clearly admits to occassionally killing innocent people in that dialogue. And true, you do not hear it if she is not in your party. But this another point at which a paladin should end this association, and not peacefully.
Yes a paladin should do it at this time but if you are playing a paladin she wouldn't even be in the party to get to this dialogue.
Ah good to know but there is a price to be paid for tomb raiding and while family members will be hugely angry at what ever creature that stopped there return from said tomb - you are a tomb raider and that comes with a cost.
Viconia might be an exception, since she offers a realistic chance of redemption. But agreed on the others.
True, but she is still a drow and she admits to killing people for revenge even if they did deserve it. Being a drow and evil automatically excludes from a true paladin's party.
Mostly that she is stupid. Given her overarching need to survive, it makes no sense either with a good or an evil party. It certainly does not lessen any of her crimes.
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Hexxat stats INT14 and 12 WIS - shows that she is not stupid.
Yes the handing over the coffin does not fit into her overarching need to survive it is down right contradictory to it but here are a few choices:
a) could this be a sign of the remaining humanity and remorse she feels for being a vampire and killing Clara
b) a away to manipulate the PC to do something - it is a gamble but vampires believe in their own superiority over all creatures and as such believes she can win in the end of whatever she has plan and recover her coffin when it is all over
c) suicide by paladin or any party - some sentient creatures cannot commit suicide by themselves so they decide to it via a party of adventurers hoping for the final release.
To your question in the other point: dominating and killing a single person is enough to show that you are evil, yes. And even if it did not, it is still a capital crime you will need to pay for.
Not necessarily as you do not know the entire story behind it - yes normally it is an evil act but many evil acts from one point of view looks different if viewed from the others person perspective.
Capital crime - I say not - since for a vampire humans are food - strictly from the view point of a vampire.
But I guess it might be considered a crime but for the powerful who rule and control servants - they usually have the power of life and death over their servants - and Clara was a servant to Hexxat and as such subject to her will in the end.
It's just me or the later posts just argue for the sake of argument (against the other arguments) and don't even bother with the point anymore? Just thinking aloud!
I could see how a paladin could allow Hexxat to travel with the group if there was a possibility of redemption since her "evil" alignment is not entirely supported by her game personality (I would say True Neutral myself), but that same paladin would not argue when she completes her final quest and gets her wish from L.
Hexxat's introduction to your Bhaalspawn is killing an innocent girl in front of you. No, there is absolutely no possible way to justify a paladin not outright killing her let alone bringing her into their party.
Yes, you should play a male Undead Hunter using the Girdle of Fem/masc to initiate a lesbian romance and then remove it just to confuse Hexxat and laugh heartily of a great joke, before you use EEKeeper to change the gender completely and you float together on pink clouds towards the sunset - because it's the politically correct thing do. Or, to be serious and less sarcastic, you can role play. Most Paladins would probably find it somewhat difficult to deal with such a creature, the same way that Dorn won't join you if your reputation is too high. But really, it is up to you. Maybe your Paladin decides everything doesn't have to be in black or white? Maybe she is geniunely taken with the vampiress with a preference for women, and would accept falling from her standards (maybe she even regards them hypocritical)? Well, it's your game and your decisions, and which role YOU want to play. At least while the dialog options offered reflect that.
I would prefer a living, breathing, non-evil romantic option for my lesbian characters. Well, could go with just living and breathing at least. The undead part though, this ain't Vampire: The Masquerade.
Edit: That last bit is a little snarky, but I'm not actually trying to criticize Hexxat's existence in the game. Just wishing for more options.
Hexxat's introduction to your Bhaalspawn is killing an innocent girl in front of you. No, there is absolutely no possible way to justify a paladin not outright killing her let alone bringing her into their party.
I hope I didn't seem like I was putting out heat. I should have perhaps put the standard disclaimer that its your game and of course you can play how you want. However, I take the question as serious. Someone is asking an opinion, I give my opinion. Even though I have my doubts about my own opinion, I just try.
And the lawful "good" paladin who kills anyone scanning as evil is equally out of character in 2nd edition Faerun.
@ammar, I am seriously asking what you mean by this quote. Not trying to call you out as being wrong or trying to argue.
The point is that Paladins are lawful good. They respect the laws of the society they move in, unless they are inherently injust (typical examples for that include slavery). Being evil is not a crime in itself. They need clear evidence of evildoing before they can act.
Examples for evil characters include an unscrupulous but law abiding merchant. Paladins can't just storm into his shop and kill him for being evil. Investigating him and inquiring about him is fine.
And the lawful "good" paladin who kills anyone scanning as evil is equally out of character in 2nd edition Faerun.
@ammar, I am seriously asking what you mean by this quote. Not trying to call you out as being wrong or trying to argue.
The point is that Paladins are lawful good. They respect the laws of the society they move in, unless they are inherently injust (typical examples for that include slavery). Being evil is not a crime in itself. They need clear evidence of evildoing before they can act.
Examples for evil characters include an unscrupulous but law abiding merchant. Paladins can't just storm into his shop and kill him for being evil. Investigating him and inquiring about him is fine.
And the lawful "good" paladin who kills anyone scanning as evil is equally out of character in 2nd edition Faerun.
@ammar, I am seriously asking what you mean by this quote. Not trying to call you out as being wrong or trying to argue.
The point is that Paladins are lawful good. They respect the laws of the society they move in, unless they are inherently injust (typical examples for that include slavery). Being evil is not a crime in itself. They need clear evidence of evildoing before they can act.
Examples for evil characters include an unscrupulous but law abiding merchant. Paladins can't just storm into his shop and kill him for being evil. Investigating him and inquiring about him is fine.
All this is in the Complete Paladin's Handbook.
And concerning vampires?
Paladin do not normally associate with evil characters. If they do, they are morally responsible for all their actions, even if undertaken without their knowledge.
In addition, vampires as part of the "always evil" group of creatures are fair game. Most civilizations in Faerun probably have laws against them, too.
I could see a paladin accepting Hexxat into their party. Clara's murder doesn't look pretty, but killing someone because you're desperate and want to survive is a neutral act, not an evil one. And let's be honest, no charname is going to be shocked just because someone was killed in front of them.
But note that I said "accepting" Hexxat, not "keeping" her. A paladin might be willing to accept Hexxat into the party with the idea of preventing her from hurting others (killing her might also accomplish this, but killing vampires is notoriously tricky, and there's a fair argument for giving her a chance to prove herself in less desperate circumstances). Thing is, it eventually becomes apparent that Hexxat is still hurting innocents in spite of the paladin's efforts, and at that point I don't see how a responsible paladin wouldn't decide to put an end to that by whatever means necessary (which is made easier by having her coffin at this point).
And the lawful "good" paladin who kills anyone scanning as evil is equally out of character in 2nd edition Faerun.
@ammar, I am seriously asking what you mean by this quote. Not trying to call you out as being wrong or trying to argue.
The point is that Paladins are lawful good. They respect the laws of the society they move in, unless they are inherently injust (typical examples for that include slavery). Being evil is not a crime in itself. They need clear evidence of evildoing before they can act.
Examples for evil characters include an unscrupulous but law abiding merchant. Paladins can't just storm into his shop and kill him for being evil. Investigating him and inquiring about him is fine.
All this is in the Complete Paladin's Handbook.
OMG, of course. I'm a dummy. Oh well. I guess that's what you get from modeling a character from a one off encounter with a paladin who scans your team in a bar in baldur's gate.
I feel some heavy justification coming in future posts of my cavalier playthrough.
I guess it could be worth some amount of time and trouble to give Hexxat a chance to get her human soul back and in order before dying as opposed to killing her as a vampire and permanently taking away any chance at redemption. It would be nice if there was a dialog option with her to make her promise not to kill innocents, but for that matter is it for sure she is actually killing them as opposed to drinking from them without killing?
The problem with this though is there is no way to know about her final quest with L at this point.
I could see you taking any evil party member as a paladin if you were trying to redeem them...but you can't do that with Hexxat...or Edwin, Korgan or Dorn, for that matter. Sarevok and Viconia do have redemption paths available, though, so I would say they are safe bets..
I'm sorry to break your hopes, but as per canon with the FR lore, a paladin will never associate with any evil character from their free will, whatever the reason.
There is no "redemption" of evil for a paladin. There is only punishment. Paladins don't save people who have gone wrong, they smite them. It's already luck if your paladin doesn't cut Hexaat into pieces as soon he see her sink her fang into Clara's neck.
Thus, there is only three way a paladin would associate with a vampire: - he doesn't know it is a vampire - the vampire is good, thus not feeding itself, thus already dying - he is magicaly dominated and unable to act from his free will
The two first solutions are impossible with Hexxat due to her storyline, so the only reason why a Paladin would be in the same party than her is that someone Geas-ed him in a way that force him to do so. Now, a paladin accepting such a Geas, you're going to need a lot of imagination to explain that...
Yes, in my opinion if one were to follow 2nd Ed. rules blindly a Paladin PC that accepts Hexxat (and a few others, Sarevok is one) should be treated as fallen and be converted to an ordinary fighter.
I find it hard to justify a strongly good aligned PC, much less a paladin, being OK with Hexxat around. The main issue is that she unrepentantly kills to survive, and there's no indication that there's any descrimination in her victims. A vampire that targeted those who were preying on the innocent or otherwise hunted monsters that harm others might be acceptable, but Hexxat is an inherently desructive creature (unlike, say, Viconia or Korgan, who doesn't have to kill to eat and could be kept as redemption cases, since they still have their souls) with no remorse and exists in an "unnatural" state. While the latter may not be a huge issue for several good-aligned concepts, the former definitately is.
I'm sorry to break your hopes, but as per canon with the FR lore, a paladin will never associate with any evil character from their free will, whatever the reason.
There is no "redemption" of evil for a paladin. There is only punishment. Paladins don't save people who have gone wrong, they smite them. It's already luck if your paladin doesn't cut Hexaat into pieces as soon he see her sink her fang into Clara's neck.
Thus, there is only three way a paladin would associate with a vampire: - he doesn't know it is a vampire - the vampire is good, thus not feeding itself, thus already dying - he is magicaly dominated and unable to act from his free will
The two first solutions are impossible with Hexxat due to her storyline, so the only reason why a Paladin would be in the same party than her is that someone Geas-ed him in a way that force him to do so. Now, a paladin accepting such a Geas, you're going to need a lot of imagination to explain that...
Why then does Keldorn not object to Korgan or Edwin being in the party? He banters with Korgan. Why doesn't he attack them?
Keldorn shows some of his flaws when it comes to evil party members, particularly Viconia. Hexxat is much more understandable, but the fact that he tolerates Korgan and Edwin is a bit hypocritical.
Edwin and Keldorn will eventually fight. Korgan is loved by every good character in the game but Aerie, and nobody cares about Aerie. He's a deranged killing machine, though some of his dialogues (Mazzy) makes him way more understandable and prone to a possible redemption than Hexxat. The "I point, he axes" kind of relationship with the PC make actually easy to justify him in any good party needing some dwarven prowess. Better than leave him unchecked in the Athkatla's streets. He actually won't run off to kill innocent people when the party is resting.
That said I can't think of any reason to bring Hexxat along with a paladin, but to each is own. Once I killed her with an evil PC for tricking me into a deadly fight with Dragomir in a treasureless tomb, but that's another story.
Edwin and Keldorn will eventually fight. Korgan is loved by every good character in the game but Aerie, and nobody cares about Aerie.
I have never run into that, but to be fair I only played with both of them in the same party for one play through, so the dialog may have just never triggered.
He's a deranged killing machine, though some of his dialogues (Mazzy) makes him way more understandable and prone to a possible redemption than Hexxat. The "I point, he axes" kind of relationship with the PC make actually easy to justify him in any good party needing some dwarven prowess. Better than leave him unchecked in the Athkatla's streets. He actually won't run off to kill innocent people when the party is resting.
Various flavors of this are the core reasoning for a good PC to take along evil NPCs, with Viconia including, potentially, a desire to keep her safe from bigots.
Why then does Keldorn not object to Korgan or Edwin being in the party? He banters with Korgan. Why doesn't he attack them?
Ask yourself: how does Keldorn can be sure they are evil?
For Hexxat, she prove everyday to be evil just by continuing to exist. Saying that "Good vampires are dead vampires" is not a figure of style in the Forgotten Realms... A vampire can ONLY keep existing by stealing the blood and life of others, which is undoublty evil. So Keldorn will not stand to stay besides her, in fact, it's already very impressive if he accept to leave without slaying her.
Korgan on the other hand... what make you say he is evil? The fact you can read his alignement on the character sheet, but Keldorn can't. He has to SEE Korgan do something truly evil to have a proof before smiting him, but Korgan don't do anything like that during BG2.
Viconia's case a is more complicated. Viconias is a cleric of Shar. One of the most powerful (if not THE most powerful) evil deities. I'm not pretty sure why Keldorn tolerate her, but if I had to take a guess, it's because of the Black Cloaks.
Black Cloaks are clerics of Shar that have a good alignement. This is something exceptional for an evil deity, only possible because Shar is the only evil deity that do not truly wish any harm to mortals, and is only considered as evil because her personnal goal would have terrible side-effects on the world, resulting in billions of deaths (if you ask my opinion: yup, this is evil)
As her goal does not directly involve to bring harm on people, she can have servants that actualy help the people in trouble instead, resulting in the appearance in her clergy of a special branch devoting themselves to bring Shar's blessings to the ones who in need for help. This branch brings to Shar more respectability and trust that any other evil deity. A temple of Shar can stand in the middle of a city with perfect morals, with a lot of tension, where a temple of Baine or Loviatar would be immediatly burned to the ground.
The difficulty for paladins in front of a Cleric of Shar is that they now there is a chance that the cleric is good. A small chance. But this can be enough to make a paladin restrain itself, because an error on the matter would be unforgivable.
TL;DR: Paladins are not blind butchers. They smite when they have proof. For Hexxat and Dorn, proof is evident, for Korgan, proof is inexistant... and for Viconia, proof is unclear. That's why Keldorn can hold back for the two later, but not the two first
Paladins have Detect Evil as a spell they can use several times per day by Keldorn's level. And as a cleric spell, IIRC. Either way, Keldorn can detect who is evil magically, but also by their behavior. Paladins aren't blind butchers, but going after Viconia while she's in the party while leaving Korgan alone seems like a double-standard. Depending on what triggers it, going after Edwin can be considered the same -- sure, he's a self-serving, manipulative, egomaniac, but trying to kill him while in the party speaks of the kind of blind butchery paladins aren't supposed to be. Dorn and Hexxat are outright unrepentant evil threats who kill and murder, but two out of the three of Viconia, Edwin, and Dorn have little reason to be targeted by Kedorn while they're in the party as far as their own actions during that time go.
You know, Detect Evil is probably the stupidiest spell of all D&D regarding the FR lore...
It is impossible to do anything coherent RP-wise if you take in account this spell, because, simply, if this spell truly existed in the Forgotten Realms, evil would simply not be able to exist anywhere on the prime plane outside the Underdark... you would not even need judges, or guards or adventurers, because any evil creature would be purged by the paladins within two days.
Accounting Detect Evil, the temple of Talos in Akhtala should be a pile of ruins since decades seeing how close it is from a paladin order, Korgan should be dead simply for having put his feet in a public place so often, the Shadow Thieves and the vampires should never have been able to develop within, the Cowled Wizard should have been half-slaughtered, the slavers should be inexistant, etc etc etc
So... well... for the sake of our mental sanity, let's forget that Detect Evil currently exist as a spell...
Comments
Look, ok, i'm ok with your opinion. I made this thread exactly to see people opinion about hexxat and compatibility with an paladin.
My conclusion is that Hexxat is totally incompatible, not because she's a vampire, but because she's true evil. If that's related to her vampire status or if she was always evil, that have little consequence, the point is you're a champion of LIGHT and is facing a true representative of EVIL praticing the very act that make it evil.
I could see many paladins taking Nathaniel (NPC mod - wraith lawful neutral zealot NPC), solafein (mod - Drow), viconia (her true self isn't evil, she just don't know that), even kindrek (Roc NPC chaotic evil hate magic above all, make wizard slayer appear as corrupt bitches that love magic), but with the help of this thread i saw hexxat out of limits.
If you had other conclusion based on whichever base you choose to follow, ok. But @magisensei, don't call my play lawful stupid or biased for not agree with your point of view dude!
You said it is because she is "true evil and not because she is a vampire" how do you justify this when you just meet her? The death of Clara - one death and is not enough to justify that she is true evil - so how do you come up with that before you get to know her? The only thing you have to base your findings on when you meet Hexxat is that she dominated and killed Clara and she is a vampire. Is this enough to be considered true evil?
It is the nature of paladins to be against evil creatures and vampires are evil creatures. The bias is built into the paladin class itself if you play it as a paladin should be played and there is nothing wrong with that - its all about role playing after all.
I agree with you that if you play a paladin in they way they should be played then Hexxat would be totally incompatible with a paladin team. Paladins are holy-warriors that don't stand for evil NPC in their party. Is this a type of bias against evil NPCs sure it is - paladins in general don't associate with evil beings because they are evil - they destroy them if possible but being friendly and having them join a team is impossible.
When I said, "Being a bigot just because you don't like them doesn't make you a good person and many of the good/lawful NPCs are prejudice against evil characters." this was referring to the NPCs in the game that wanted to either kill Hexxat or leave the party because she was in it - not referring to your playing.
If you play with another non-paladin PC and then take paladins/lawful characters NPC with you they will eventually be prejudice against Hexxat and this will cause them to either fight her or leave the team - just because she is a vampire - and that is form of prejudice - but they are lawful good so its built into them - they can't help it.
http://danaduchy.tumblr.com/bg2 Viconia might be an exception, since she offers a realistic chance of redemption. But agreed on the others. That is why I used Mazzy and not Anomen or Keldorn. Mazzy is the least prejudiced good character in the game and a better example of what a paladin should be like than even Keldorn.
And disliking evil people is not a prejudice; since you dislike them based on what they choose to be.
Mostly that she is stupid. Given her overarching need to survive, it makes no sense either with a good or an evil party. It certainly does not lessen any of her crimes.
To your question in the other point: dominating and killing a single person is enough to show that you are evil, yes. And even if it did not, it is still a capital crime you will need to pay for.
True, but she is still a drow and she admits to killing people for revenge even if they did deserve it. Being a drow and evil automatically excludes from a true paladin's party.
Ah but some creatures have no choice but to be evil the monster guide does not let vampires be anything but evil. So there is no choice.
Hexxat stats INT14 and 12 WIS - shows that she is not stupid.
Yes the handing over the coffin does not fit into her overarching need to survive it is down right contradictory to it but here are a few choices:
a) could this be a sign of the remaining humanity and remorse she feels for being a vampire and killing Clara
b) a away to manipulate the PC to do something - it is a gamble but vampires believe in their own superiority over all creatures and as such believes she can win in the end of whatever she has plan and recover her coffin when it is all over
c) suicide by paladin or any party - some sentient creatures cannot commit suicide by themselves so they decide to it via a party of adventurers hoping for the final release. Not necessarily as you do not know the entire story behind it - yes normally it is an evil act but many evil acts from one point of view looks different if viewed from the others person perspective.
Capital crime - I say not - since for a vampire humans are food - strictly from the view point of a vampire.
But I guess it might be considered a crime but for the powerful who rule and control servants - they usually have the power of life and death over their servants - and Clara was a servant to Hexxat and as such subject to her will in the end.
No, there is absolutely no possible way to justify a paladin not outright killing her let alone bringing her into their party.
Or, to be serious and less sarcastic, you can role play. Most Paladins would probably find it somewhat difficult to deal with such a creature, the same way that Dorn won't join you if your reputation is too high.
But really, it is up to you. Maybe your Paladin decides everything doesn't have to be in black or white? Maybe she is geniunely taken with the vampiress with a preference for women, and would accept falling from her standards (maybe she even regards them hypocritical)? Well, it's your game and your decisions, and which role YOU want to play.
At least while the dialog options offered reflect that.
Edit: That last bit is a little snarky, but I'm not actually trying to criticize Hexxat's existence in the game. Just wishing for more options.
That said, @ammar, I am seriously asking what you mean by this quote. Not trying to call you out as being wrong or trying to argue.
Examples for evil characters include an unscrupulous but law abiding merchant. Paladins can't just storm into his shop and kill him for being evil. Investigating him and inquiring about him is fine.
All this is in the Complete Paladin's Handbook.
In addition, vampires as part of the "always evil" group of creatures are fair game. Most civilizations in Faerun probably have laws against them, too.
But note that I said "accepting" Hexxat, not "keeping" her. A paladin might be willing to accept Hexxat into the party with the idea of preventing her from hurting others (killing her might also accomplish this, but killing vampires is notoriously tricky, and there's a fair argument for giving her a chance to prove herself in less desperate circumstances). Thing is, it eventually becomes apparent that Hexxat is still hurting innocents in spite of the paladin's efforts, and at that point I don't see how a responsible paladin wouldn't decide to put an end to that by whatever means necessary (which is made easier by having her coffin at this point).
I feel some heavy justification coming in future posts of my cavalier playthrough.
The problem with this though is there is no way to know about her final quest with L at this point.
There is no "redemption" of evil for a paladin. There is only punishment. Paladins don't save people who have gone wrong, they smite them. It's already luck if your paladin doesn't cut Hexaat into pieces as soon he see her sink her fang into Clara's neck.
Thus, there is only three way a paladin would associate with a vampire:
- he doesn't know it is a vampire
- the vampire is good, thus not feeding itself, thus already dying
- he is magicaly dominated and unable to act from his free will
The two first solutions are impossible with Hexxat due to her storyline, so the only reason why a Paladin would be in the same party than her is that someone Geas-ed him in a way that force him to do so.
Now, a paladin accepting such a Geas, you're going to need a lot of imagination to explain that...
That said I can't think of any reason to bring Hexxat along with a paladin, but to each is own. Once I killed her with an evil PC for tricking me into a deadly fight with Dragomir in a treasureless tomb, but that's another story.
For Hexxat, she prove everyday to be evil just by continuing to exist. Saying that "Good vampires are dead vampires" is not a figure of style in the Forgotten Realms... A vampire can ONLY keep existing by stealing the blood and life of others, which is undoublty evil.
So Keldorn will not stand to stay besides her, in fact, it's already very impressive if he accept to leave without slaying her.
Korgan on the other hand... what make you say he is evil?
The fact you can read his alignement on the character sheet, but Keldorn can't. He has to SEE Korgan do something truly evil to have a proof before smiting him, but Korgan don't do anything like that during BG2.
Viconia's case a is more complicated.
Viconias is a cleric of Shar. One of the most powerful (if not THE most powerful) evil deities. I'm not pretty sure why Keldorn tolerate her, but if I had to take a guess, it's because of the Black Cloaks.
Black Cloaks are clerics of Shar that have a good alignement.
This is something exceptional for an evil deity, only possible because Shar is the only evil deity that do not truly wish any harm to mortals, and is only considered as evil because her personnal goal would have terrible side-effects on the world, resulting in billions of deaths (if you ask my opinion: yup, this is evil)
As her goal does not directly involve to bring harm on people, she can have servants that actualy help the people in trouble instead, resulting in the appearance in her clergy of a special branch devoting themselves to bring Shar's blessings to the ones who in need for help.
This branch brings to Shar more respectability and trust that any other evil deity. A temple of Shar can stand in the middle of a city with perfect morals, with a lot of tension, where a temple of Baine or Loviatar would be immediatly burned to the ground.
The difficulty for paladins in front of a Cleric of Shar is that they now there is a chance that the cleric is good. A small chance. But this can be enough to make a paladin restrain itself, because an error on the matter would be unforgivable.
TL;DR: Paladins are not blind butchers. They smite when they have proof. For Hexxat and Dorn, proof is evident, for Korgan, proof is inexistant... and for Viconia, proof is unclear. That's why Keldorn can hold back for the two later, but not the two first
It is impossible to do anything coherent RP-wise if you take in account this spell, because, simply, if this spell truly existed in the Forgotten Realms, evil would simply not be able to exist anywhere on the prime plane outside the Underdark... you would not even need judges, or guards or adventurers, because any evil creature would be purged by the paladins within two days.
Accounting Detect Evil, the temple of Talos in Akhtala should be a pile of ruins since decades seeing how close it is from a paladin order, Korgan should be dead simply for having put his feet in a public place so often, the Shadow Thieves and the vampires should never have been able to develop within, the Cowled Wizard should have been half-slaughtered, the slavers should be inexistant, etc etc etc
So... well... for the sake of our mental sanity, let's forget that Detect Evil currently exist as a spell...