Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Blackguard = Anti-Paladin?

2»

Comments

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,347

    Skatan said:

    My example above with the soldier becoming a blackguard but not necessarely being evil himself was to show that one can commit evil acts without being evil.

    Blackguards willingly DECIDE to embrace evil. There isn't a grey area.
    I theorized around how a non-evil person could become a blackguard above, but my main point was more about the alignment system as a response to the OP's question about the old school anti-paladin vs a blackguard and that a blackguard may or may not be 100% stupid-evil.

    GoturaljackjackGenderNihilismGirdle
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Skatan said:

    I theorized around how a non-evil person could become a blackguard above, but my main point was more about the alignment system as a response to the OP's question about the old school anti-paladin vs a blackguard and that a blackguard may or may not be 100% stupid-evil.

    That's great. A Blackguard is 100% evil. That's what the D&D established lore says. There is no grey area. You can argue this all you want, but you are NOT the author of the lore. In other words, it doesn't matter. The path to becoming a Blackguard may not have started off evil; but, by the time one is a blackguard, one is 100% full, undeniably evil without any shadow of doubt.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    And he was telling you why your "theory" of a non-evil blackguard was wrong. You can be a blackguard without bring Stupid Evil, but you can't be a blackguard without being Evil. They literally sell their soul to devils for power. They can't go "oh I wasn't really all that into that whole evil thing, I only did it because someone told me to, so it doesn't count" afterwards.

    Gotural
  • znancekivellznancekivell Member Posts: 58
    It's too bad, this thread seems to have derailed into a competition of Who's Right, which typically ends badly on the internet.

    Skatanjackjack
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    I already stepped out, 'cause I made my points and that's that.

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    As for Dorn, I think he is quite well written, trying to take a Bhaalspawn down a highway to hell. I have not yet finished his quests, but the intent to actively pursue evil is there.

    D&D does not really do grey area's well, but actively (methodically) pursueing evil or good are quite absolute, paladins and blackguards actually fit into the good/evil axis perfectly.

  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    What annoys me about Blackguards is in my head I always pronounce the word as "black guard" when I'm suppose to pronounce it as "blaggard" which is just the abbreviated version but what Dorn's ex buddy calls him in the game.

    Anyways looking into the real world Etymology:

    black +‎ guard, thought to have referred originally to the scullions and lower menials of a court, or of a nobleman's household, who wore black liveries or blacked shoes and boots, or were often stained with soot.

    So yeah scullions, I now have no opinions on Blackguards at all.

    FinnTheHumanjackjackdunbar
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636

    What annoys me about Blackguards is in my head I always pronounce the word as "black guard" when I'm suppose to pronounce it as "blaggard" which is just the abbreviated version but what Dorn's ex buddy calls him in the game.

    It is actually pronounced as "black guard", but said as if it's a single word.
    Zilber said:

    D&D does not really do grey area's well, but actively (methodically) pursueing evil or good are quite absolute, paladins and blackguards actually fit into the good/evil axis perfectly.

    Not to nitpick, but I think it's more accurate to say that D&D up until 5E doesn't do grey areas very well. While the same alignment system exists in 5E, one can have a paladin that isn't strictly Lawful Good, for example. The 5E archetypes make it such that there's a bit more allowance for "grey areas".

  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    @rapsam2003 well in the American pronunciation is "blackguard" while the British pronunciation is "blaggard". At least that's what the sound bites on this page told me.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blackguard

  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    edited May 2016
    @SmilingSword I'd also wondered if I could legitimately pronounce it "blaggard" in my head, so I looked it up in Oxford (I use the edition "based on historical principles", which is longwinded but more interesting) and that says pretty much the same as the definition that you found (yup, scullions, pronounced blaggards).
    Whereas the definitions found by @drakir refer to specifically formed units where the name consists of two separate words: "Black Guards", just like the Chinese "Red Guards".

    SmilingSword
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Yeah, the context the name of the class builds from is that of the word that is pronounced "blaggard". Certainly not as intimidating.

    SmilingSword
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636

    @rapsam2003 well in the American pronunciation is "blackguard" while the British pronunciation is "blaggard". At least that's what the sound bites on this page told me.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blackguard

    I understand that. But I'm fairly certain that the WotC intention with that kit/prestige class (in 3.5E, blackguard is a prestige class) is to say it as "black guard".

    SmilingSword
  • FreyaFreya Member Posts: 28
    I'm not crazy high on my D&D lore these days, but to be honest I think the "Blackguard" class was always just sort of vague reference to a warrior who opted to follow kind of non-Paladin codes (like it used to just be a fallen Paladin?)

    Given that Paladins required strict things like Lawful Good etc, my sense is just the non-Paladin could mean kind of anything that's just not really a Paladin, not so much an Anti-Paladin.

    I think the Anti-Paladin thing comes from just them wearing plate and sharing all those "Paladin-like" things.

    Anyway, that's my feelings on the matter. =-)

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Freya said:

    I'm not crazy high on my D&D lore these days, but to be honest I think the "Blackguard" class was always just sort of vague reference to a warrior who opted to follow kind of non-Paladin codes (like it used to just be a fallen Paladin?))

    As I said before, it is not the same. Blackguards could be fallen paladins, but it's not a requirement. And evil gods (or demons/devils) actually select blackguards to "bless".
    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Blackguard

Sign In or Register to comment.