Kensai-thief
madmaximus
Member Posts: 140
I am finally doing it. My last play-through was a F/T multiclass. This will be my first dual class. I had some questions to clarify things.
My Char base stats 18/97, 18, 18, 10, 8, 18. All tomes from BGEE going to CHARname.
Weapon prof: Scimitar:** 2 weapon style: 2 I plan on maxing these out before dual classing. chose scimitars for the weapons that give bonus APR. Might take Drizzt's
1st question: Am I sposed to dual when I reach level 12 or level 13? trying to maximize APR/thaco etc.
2nd question: Once I obtain UAI can I dual wield Belm and the scarlet ninja-to for +2 APR?
3rd question: Since my base THACO will already be greater than a thiefs at the time of dual classing will it no longer improve with thief levels?
4th question: Will I be limited to placing one pip in weapon prof slots after becoming a thief?
5th question: Civil War or Batman Vs Superman?
My Char base stats 18/97, 18, 18, 10, 8, 18. All tomes from BGEE going to CHARname.
Weapon prof: Scimitar:** 2 weapon style: 2 I plan on maxing these out before dual classing. chose scimitars for the weapons that give bonus APR. Might take Drizzt's
1st question: Am I sposed to dual when I reach level 12 or level 13? trying to maximize APR/thaco etc.
2nd question: Once I obtain UAI can I dual wield Belm and the scarlet ninja-to for +2 APR?
3rd question: Since my base THACO will already be greater than a thiefs at the time of dual classing will it no longer improve with thief levels?
4th question: Will I be limited to placing one pip in weapon prof slots after becoming a thief?
5th question: Civil War or Batman Vs Superman?
0
Comments
2. Yes to wielding, not sure if the extra attacks stack though.
3. When you dual class to thief it resets to 20. When you reach level 14 as a thief it will either revert back to your fighter THAC0 or continue with your thief THAC0 - whichever is better. It will then continue to progress with your thief progression. This logic applies to all saving throws as well.
4. No. But you should be.
5. I haven't seen Civil War but I thought Batman vs. Superman was at best average. So I'll go with Marvel.
1) If you're dualing and playing solo, 13 is fine. However in a party most people think it takes too long. Hence I would recommend level 9.
2) You can wield both, but non-hasted APR is capped at 5.
3) Indeed you will only use the best THAC0 progression
4) Yes until you complete dual
5) Pacman
2) APR is capped at 5 - cannot surpass this without haste spell of some kind
3) best Thac0 is used
4) Yes but by level 12 kensai will have grandmastery in one weapon - so put the points in some other weapon you might want to use BUT even after you regain your kensai skills the dual classed should still not be allowed to put more than 1 point into anything although at this time you can (this is an engine exploit).
5) try both
Are you doing the entire series including BG, SoD, BG2 and ToB? When to dual changes a bit if you are only doing one of the series versus doing more than one or all of them.
I was thinking of just running with Aerie once I reach BG2. Thanks for all the info guys. Sucks that the APR is limited to 5, I had it in my head that my Charname was gonna be walking around at like 6 or 7 APR lol.
Still, in an unmodded game 5 APR is probably enough to shred pretty much anything
Bring a fun and entertaining team with you for a portion of the thief run.
There are better weapons to grandmaster in besides scimitars but if this is how you picture your kensai fighting then go with that.
A human fighter 9 has crap saving throws. The thief levels will improve his save vs wand and spells, but his save vs death in particular will forever suck (base of 8!). Getting to level 13 improves all saving throws by at least 3 (some more than 3). Getting to a "safe" threshold with potions, spells and equipment (somewhere around -4) is a lot easier when the base is 5 rather than 8.
I myself believe that you are better off dualing early and dealing with things like worse THAC0/STs in other ways. Since in solo it is almost trivial to block almost anything ever with the right immunity and/or strategy, I do not consider improvement in that area worth the steep XP cost (and it's very steep; 1-9 is the same total XP as 9-10, and every single level thereafter). But that is just me - you may very well see things differently. Take the input from everyone, weigh and consider it, try things out, and then arrive at the solution that works best for YOU personally.
I'm torn between a Kensai run. (I plan on removing the xp cap in BGEE and seeing if I can get to 9th level and dual class as soon as I begin SoD, XP Cap on so will still be 500k ceiling before BG2EE.)
Or a Bounty Hunter, because I've always loved Yoshimo/Subotai and would like to complete the whole series with a similar character as the main.
Mainhand there is much better choices.
I actually dualled at 21 (crazy, but reasons) and my guy is unstoppable.
Also when leveling your thief (solo for exp), Hide in Shodows, boots of speed, backstab, repeat. Haha, its so fun to me.
Sorry for the longwinded reply.
I know it's less powerful but I usually dual my fighter classes at level 9 (you get a pip at level 9, as well as an additionnal bonus given by your class, whether rage or damage), and the recovery is really quick. Dualing at level 13 is more powerful lategame but the downtime might be quite annoying.
I also thought about dualing at 18 or 21, why did you do it?
Dualing usually takes place at 13 for max result (for a fighter) as everyone has said - after that besides some general better Thac0 and saves nothing really advances; and if you are playing a thief or mage dual then you are not meleeing really - one backstabs and then runs away; while the other comfortably casts spells blowing foes away from a comfortable distant some as to not get blood on his expensive robes.
If you are dualing late then why not just multi-class instead as it will become more powerful.
9: max HP, extra pip
13: another half attack
anything further only adds thac0 and the kit damage on kensai, thief has generally the better saving throws (iirc), so thats not much of a reason.
"Specifically, what their solution is for the awkward cost/reward ratio at higher XP brackets."
Fighter 13 is 1.25m XP
Thief 14 is 880k
Total XP needed is 2.13m XP
Even with a full party I'm hitting that probably around the Underdark (+/- depending on side quests completed). The level 9 dual seems to be the sweet spot, and I'd only consider a 13 dual if solo or in a small party (3 person or less).
There are benefits for going to 13 for sure, but you need to decide if the extra wait is worth it. It will likely heavily depend on your party size. If you're duoing with Aerie come SoA, then you should be fine with a later dual.
Just to reiterate, my conviction remains (for now) that while you do gain nice things for levels higher than 9, they are not nice enough to warrant the extra XP you need to invest. This is doubly true because the arguably biggest gain (the extra 0.5 APR at 13) becomes less attractive the easier it is to get - you regain levels easier the smaller your party, but the smaller your party the greater the chance you can use the +0.5APR gauntlets so that the APR gain doesn't actually matter. (Note that this does not apply for K->M, though, as they can't use gauntlets; but they have other things to consider, like spell levels, that favor earlier dual as well)
I'd love to hear people's perspectives, though. What do you think makes that steep XP investment worth it, and why?
I'm not sure how different your HP and Saving Throws would be between a 9 and 13 dual. I'm not well versed in how the stats are calculated when you dual or go multi. Maybe someone can do the calculations? Let's assume the same total XP between them, the 2.13m to hit Thief 14 on the higher dual.
So you'd compare between a 9/18 and a 13/14.