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Not enough evil fighters in SoD?

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  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    You don't need the strength gloves. Just casting any of the myriad cleric spells that increase strength will allow Viconia to equip any gear she likes. In SoD it's easy to get her AC high enough that she can only be hit on a natural 20. You don't need hp if you can't be hit. And as you say, she doesn't get that many spells, so she may as well be tanking as standing in the back with a sling. With a high enough AC you can tank and cast spells at the same time, anyway.
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    edited June 2016
    I find Viconia does pretty well when I start the day casting a Strength spell on her to boost to 18 for 8 hours. When she follows up with DUHM she can hit effectively. Only once a round, true, but she can do it several times a day since the Strength spell keeps going and she doesn't have to change armor.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    The hp means a lot, an hight armor class doesn't mean she is immune to everything. If someone poison her, she wont be able to unpoison herself, and if she has a low HP by the time you try to cure she is dead, expecially if an assassin has poisoned her.

    The boosting it to 18 might work, but she needs to reload her casting, so you will need your party to sleep often. If you get ambushed during the sleep time, reload and restart.

    Really, Viconia is good against magic, but not against melee. Not as much as Dorn or Khalid are. Let's not forget Viconia is a pure cleric, and her stats are for supporting a party. In BG1 there are 2 clerics with stats made also for melee fights.

    The boosting it to 18 might work well with coldhearth, because of Viconia magic resistence, but later that map, you wont keep Viconia as a malee tank, I think M'khiin is better than her as a melee tank because she also has her own armors.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Jaheira with the Dex gauntlets is a fantastic tank, since she'll have heavy armor, a weapon/shield combo, and high Dex and Con scores, even before she gets Ironskins. But if you don't have the gauntlets, she's pretty lacking in that department.

    Viconia can use ankheg plate, which is only a small step from the best armor in the game. I've found her to be a perfectly functional tank in BG1. Her lack of hit points if definitely a problem, but as a weapon/shield fighter with a 19 Dex and ankheg plate, she'll fare better than a lot of more traditional melee fighters (Minsc and Dorn being particularly relevant). Of course, her damage is absolute garbage, but if all you want is someone to stand in front of your mages, Viconia does a pretty good job.

    That said, I'd definitely point to M'Khiin for tanking in SOD. She has Ironskins and infinite summons. She's basically a brick wall when she wants to be.
    Fardragon
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2016

    The hp means a lot, an hight armor class doesn't mean she is immune to everything. If someone poison her, she wont be able to unpoison herself, and if she has a low HP by the time you try to cure she is dead, expecially if an assassin has poisoned her.

    An assassin can't poison her if he can't hit her. And anyway, how many assassins are there in SoD? I can only think of one that is remotely dangerous, and he always targets mages anyway.

    The boosting it to 18 might work, but she needs to reload her casting, so you will need your party to sleep often. If you get ambushed during the sleep time, reload and restart.

    You only need to cast the spell once to equip whatever you like. It stays equipped when strength goes back to normal.

    Really, Viconia is good against magic, but not against melee. Not as much as Dorn or Khalid are. Let's not forget Viconia is a pure cleric, and her stats are for supporting a party. In BG1 there are 2 clerics with stats made also for melee fights.

    The boosting it to 18 might work well with coldhearth, because of Viconia magic resistence, but later that map, you wont keep Viconia as a malee tank, I think M'khiin is better than her as a melee tank because she also has her own armors.



    Really? Because I have played through the trilogy several times with Viconia as main tank or second tank. Her high dexterity and magic resistance make her ideal for the role. On the other hand, Dorn is a rotten tank, with unimpressive dex and con scores, and a disdain for shields. Khalid and M'khiin are both good tanks, but both will leave the party if reputation drops to low.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    Fardragon said:



    An assassin can't poison her if he can't hit her. And anyway, how many assassins are there in SoD? I can only think of one that is remotely dangerous, and he always targets mages anyway.

    There are more assasins than you think, look at the cyric temple, backstabbing has been increased a lot. If dorn poisons his weapon the poison will work faster, and he can hit her with not problems. He also has 19 str, he could one hit. There are also knives with poison any class can use. A fighter can hit a cleric anytime.
    Fardragon said:

    The boosting it to 18 might work, but she needs to reload her casting, so you will need your party to sleep often. If you get ambushed during the sleep time, reload and restart.
    You only need to cast the spell once to equip whatever you like. It stays equipped when strength goes back to normal.

    I know that but it's like using a trick that should be fixed. This is not the way the game is supposed to work.
    Fardragon said:


    Really? Because I have played through the trilogy several times with Viconia as main tank or second tank. Her high dexterity and magic resistance make her ideal for the role. On the other hand, Dorn is a rotten tank, with unimpressive dex and con scores, and a disdain for shields. Khalid and M'khiin are both good tanks, but both will leave the party if reputation drops to low.

    Read what you said, you will keep Viconia because of her magic resistence, but not because of her melee resistence. Basing your party on 2 tanks and mages is not a good idea, there are too many protecions against mages.

    Dorns sucks, I agree with that, but still he has more resistence and he also has many saving throws because he is a bguard and as bguard he can alse lower anybody resistence.

    M'khiin like Khalid will quit if rep goes down to 3 and i don't see any point to lower your reputation that much. You can still join them back.

    I play always Viconia and i know how strong she is, but as long she doens't get str boost, she wont be able to fight well, but Viconia as I said, is a supporting NPC, she will keep the party alive during a fight.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2016
    I tend not to need to use clerics to "keep party alive during fight". I usually focus on pre-fight buffs. During a fight I use potions.

    A tank doesn't need to be able to "fight well". Offensive abilities, like Dorn's ability to lower resistance, are irrelevant. As melee DPS, Dorn is great.
    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    The job of a cleric is yes to fight, but in case of Viconia, her job is to keep the party alive, because her stats are made for her to learn more casts than fighting abilies. This doesn't mean a cleric cannot fight, there is a cleric you find in the mines who can fight.

    A tank who can put also a nice demage is better than standing still tanks. Abilities such as lower resistence are all but irrilevant. Expecially when that ability lower your armor class, and didn't you say nobody including an assassing can toch Viconia if she has an hight armor class, there is where the armor class goes. The trick to cast her strgh to 18, just EEKeep it, set her strgh to 18, it's exaclty the same, you just wont waste time to change her armor when you get something better.

    As already said, those casts you use can be removed, often with a just dispell magic, and often they are removed during a fight, this is the reason why you need a cleric to recast them.

    Let's quit it here, we both agree Viconia is great to tank magic, but we don't agree about melee, where i think she is not so great as a tank for melee, not better than dorn or Khalid as has been said. Minsc who does really sucks, can take more hits, and if goes bersk can put a really nice fight. Bye.
    smeagolheart
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    You don't need a dexterity of 19 to cast spells.
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