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Not enough evil fighters in SoD?

DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 229
edited June 2016 in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
I just started a new SoD game with my evil shadowdancer, and I noticed that there aren't really any evil fighters in the game besides Dorn, so if you want to go with an evil/neutral party with low rep (which is quite easy to do as Baeloth, Viconia, and M'Khiin all reduce rep by 2) you are kind of out of luck, especially in the first areas before you can recruit Dorn. There are five fighters in SoD, Corwin, Minsc, Khalid & Jaheira, and Dorn. So for all your evil runs, what did you do for fighters before you get Dorn? For now I've got Corwin, M'Khiin, Viconia, Edwin, and Baeloth, which makes this party totally ranged heavy with no front-line fighters. Any suggestions?
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Comments

  • DetroitRedWings25DetroitRedWings25 Member Posts: 244
    Yeah SoD really lacks evil Fighter support, even Neutral fighter support. If only Kagain had made it into SoD :( You could always make a second char to fill the role, or pick up khalid to replace corwin if you don't mind having good aligned party members.
  • TymakerTymaker Member Posts: 105
    edited June 2016
    I don't know, I'm still waiting to play SoD!
  • PandaManPandaMan Member Posts: 4
    I used Viconia, saving potions of fortitude for the big fights. Alternately if you acquired the helm of opposite alignment from Durlag's tower, you could use that on Khalid (think Minsc would fight Edwin). I personally used it on Glint as with Vic being frontline I couldn't make the best use out of her casting (plus glint is awesome).
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Does the helm of opposite alignment work? I tried it on Viconia when my rep was 20 and she still left.
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,083
    Because of the limited number of joinable NPCs in SoD, every alignment-based party will lack coverage somewhere. Minsc and Dorn are by far the best melee options in the game and Corwin is the game's only decent ranged combatant, so a fairly wide range of players are going to have a tough time of it. Another issue is the surprising lack of fighter/thieves of any alignment.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,758
    SoD has introduced an option to create a custom party. You can always start playing with more than one character, and make a fighter party member.
  • JurisJuris Member Posts: 113
    As I've said before Kagain should've been carried over. Replace the unnecessary Duergar fighter NPC with Viconia with Kagain. Bring back the incredible regenerating Dwarf! Kagain doesn't need an elaborate subplot, he just wants money.
  • ifupaulineifupauline Member Posts: 405
    Juris said:

    As I've said before Kagain should've been carried over. Replace the unnecessary Duergar fighter NPC with Viconia with Kagain. Bring back the incredible regenerating Dwarf! Kagain doesn't need an elaborate subplot, he just wants money.

    And war brings a lot of money -_-
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Juris said:

    As I've said before Kagain should've been carried over. Replace the unnecessary Duergar fighter NPC with Viconia with Kagain. Bring back the incredible regenerating Dwarf! Kagain doesn't need an elaborate subplot, he just wants money.

    Then how about you create a mod that does exactly that?!
  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 229
    The NPCs are one of my favorite parts of Baldurs Gate, I never play solo or with more than one created character...just not interested. I'm not having difficulty without a fighter, it's just weird that there are so few fighters in SoD when BG2 has a much higher ratio of fighters to casters/thieves despite having only a few more NPCs than SoD (I believe 21 to 15)?
  • KennisKennis Member Posts: 124
    Bring Kagain back... :)
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Kennis said:

    Bring Kagain back... :)

    I repeat:
    rapsam2003 said:

    how about you create a mod that does exactly that?!

  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 631
    @rapsam2003: That's not really a helpful suggestion. Nor indeed a kind one.

    The fact is, evil fighters are in really short supply in SoD. It's an oversight. It doesn't ruin anything, but it is an oversight.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    You can join a good fighter anytime you want, as long your rep doesn't go too much down, and by the time it goes much down you can already join and evilt fighter. The same does apply to evils NPC. What SoD and not only SoD is missing, are the thieves, why no bounty hunters or assassins but just pure thieves? This is what i really don't like about it.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    LoveViconia said:

    You can join a good fighter anytime you want, as long your rep doesn't go too much down, and by the time it goes much down you can already join and evilt fighter. The same does apply to evils NPC. What SoD and not only SoD is missing, are the thieves, why no bounty hunters or assassins but just pure thieves? This is what i really don't like about it.

    Thieves were a problem in BG1 too.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    In bg there are many thieves, but when the original version was released assassins and bounty hunters were not there. You have a large option about thieves, so far there are 3 pure thieves, but in bg2 and sod the choice is really insignificant. They are just pure thieves, find traps, disarms traps, but no backstabbing or setting traps, they cannot compete with the game. They should have used the thieves much better than they did.
  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 631
    @LoveViconia: What do you mean they cannot compete with the game? You can choose any combination of the available NPCs and play it quite comfortably. If you add the SCS mod and then play on insane difficulty, things will get more difficult, that's for sure, but your original claim is nonsense.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    @xzar_monty I was talking about the NPCs we are given as thieves. You can't dual them to be half thief half assassin. So I'm saying if they would give assassin or a bounty hunter to join, the thief could make some kills instead of just finding and disarming traps, becasuse is this what we use thieves for the most. An assassin can backstab, a bounty hunter can place great traps, but a pure thief, equip him as much you want, well, if you think he is good at fighting.
  • JouniJouni Member Posts: 50
    AD&D thieves were not supposed to be effective combatants, and BG1 follows the tradition quite nicely. BG2 is spiritually much closer to 3E, which made rogues specialist fighters instead of non-combat specialists.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    Yes but, why the EE added assassins and bounty hunters to pick in BG1? And why the EE did not add any assassin or bounty hunter NPCs to be recluted in BG2? There is just one who is going to betray, and after that, he wont be playable anymore.
  • JouniJouni Member Posts: 50
    Adding BG2 classes to BGEE was simply a matter of using the same engine for all EE games. It was easy to do and probably made the maintenance of multiple games easier. Adding new content would have been much more expensive.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    This mod:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/58941/mod-bgeenpc-tweaks-for-bgee-sod-bg2ee-eet/p1

    Allows Dorn to be recruited right after the prologue. So you can get an evil fighter quickly.
  • KennisKennis Member Posts: 124
    I couldn't create a mod for Kagain anyways. I'd vote for a $5 DLC per character that you 'want' to keep that isn't otherwise in SoD that isn't game breaking. In my case, Kagain would be the only one missing. I can see Charname buying Kagain off for a fee for additional time.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    There aren't many good fighters too, Khalid is not that strong and you can join him in the same map where dorn is prisoner, so the problem evils parties and good parties have about fighters is the same.

    Jaheira has more resistence, but she deals less demage and she can't handle magic so easy, she needs to cast too much on her for both melee and magic.

    If you want to add Kagain why don't you also add Ajantis, so far these are the best fighters you can pick.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Jalhera is a good tank, and you can get her before Dorn and Khalid.

    Viconia isn't bad either. Better than Dorn.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    Jahiera is not bad in SoD, but definitely not a good tank. She might not have all the spells yet who make her able to tank. Viconia is definitely a good tank against magic, but against melee she is too weak. She is evil too. This is why i said evil parties and good parties have about the same problem, and who woudln't like to see Ajantis back at the least in SoD, he is a decent tank and it would be a nice add i guess.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2016
    Jahiera gets Ironskins in SoD, making her the best tank by far.

    AC is still effective in SoD (unless you play on the stupid difficulty settings), which makes Viconia an effective melee tank.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    Jaheira doesn't get the ironskin from the very begin, "unless you play on the stupid difficulty settings".

    I just said Viconia is not good to tank melee, doesn't matter what armor class she has, low const and low streng wont allow her to use many armors and she has a really low HP, you said she is a good tank by comparating her to dorn who can still tank some melee, but not as much as Khalid.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    err - cleric...

    They get lots of strength boosting spells, she can use any armour or shield in the game.
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    Viconia has 8 const and 10 streng, many armors require 15 streng to be used, she can cast spells on herself, but, expecially in SoD, there are fights against too many, and she alone can't tank.

    As a pure cleric her job is to keep the party up, not to tank.

    You need to equip her the 18 str's gloves if you want she to be able to use some armors, but still if she get an arrowing ambush or a backstabbing she dies fast.

    You should also know often these boost she gets from her casts, can be removed at the begin of a fight or during it.

    Also In SoD she doesn't have many spells. M'kiin alone has more spells than Viconia and Jaheira together, including the ironskin many talk about.
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