Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

I'd like for stat rolling to be improved

PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
edited September 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
Spamming the reroll button, then subtracting all the points to see if you have a higher total than the one stored in "Recall" is not a fun experience. It's something that's been greatly improved upon in RPGs that have come since.

I'd rather see a static number of points or point-buy of some kind.

I know the game is launching in a week, but I read something about ongoing support. Just something to consider for the future.

Comments

  • harvman11harvman11 Member Posts: 33
    While I agree that stat rolling could be improved (I'd say with a simple "total" number that shows your total points), if you change it to a point-buy or a static number of points you really change the feel of character creation. Spending an hour rolling a character, while it's horribly frustrating, makes you invested in the character. At the same time, people who want to play a more "pure" D&D game might want to simply roll and let the numbers fall as they lie, which a static number/point buy can't do. This gives you the opportunity to have a more unique character.

    At the same time, I see your point, and I'm sure there's plenty of people who would prefer that. I just don't see them changing it because honestly it's always felt like a big part of the character creation experience. I know it's not a perfect solution, but if you don't want to spend the time rolling I'd recommend just using the cheat code (ctl+8?) to get all 18s and adjust it how you'd like. The only problem here is (I think... been a while since I used it) 18/00 on not allowed classes, and you can't have 18/xx besides /00.

  • MenthroMenthro Member Posts: 85
    Don't forget, if you are rolling a fighter to reroll until you get that 18/00 :P

    Quartzego1steTehCerealKiller
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Point-buy is actually a fairly standard method of character creation in tabletop D&D, specifically because it does allow everyone to create characters with a similar level of power.

    The engine currently rerolls automatically any array with fewer than 75 total points. So you could probably create a mod that rerolls anything except a total of X number of points.

  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    I never liked the fixed stat/point-buy allocation. It operates on the assumption that every character has the same total sum of ability points (not accounting for racial bonuses/penalties). It's naively egalitarian. As in real life, not everyone is equal in ability or potential.

    Fake_SketchBubbleboyChrisYuiCrono
  • kiroskiros Member Posts: 119
    I'm tired of seeing this topic raised. To put it simply, it ruins the atmosphere of the game.
    The whole point of rolling a character is to garner a bit of optimization and endure some limitations, not to have superman with maxed out stats.

    Secondly, it isn't hard to visually add and subtract stats in you're head to realize an approximate good roll..does everything need to be handed to you on a silver platter like every other game does today?

    Evidently with this feature implemented you would see everyone speed rolling as fast as they can to obtain ridiculously strong characters..you call that a role playing experience?

    Brude
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560

    Huh? The game is based on D&D 2e. Rolling for stats is embedded into that experience, and has been for, what? More than thirty years now?

    You can take my dice when you pry them from my cold, dead hand! :D

    ChrisYui
  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    The 2e Player's Handbook included a variety of stat rolling systems.

    Anyway, if Aoesaw is right and the cap is 74, that at least gives people some idea of what they can shoot for.

    I know I've beaten that, though. I've rolled 65 "free" points on a fighter, so that easily exceeds 75 total, unless it is subtracting 3 from every stat (counting a 3 as a 0).

    The_New_Romance
  • HertzHertz Member Posts: 109
    I just rolled a character with about 93 total points in stats (BG1, Tutu, NPC extender mods). I'd be suspicious if the stats were capped as low as 75. That would be 18 x 3 plus 7 x 3.

  • KenKen Member Posts: 226
    harvman11 said:

    Spending an hour rolling a character, while it's horribly frustrating, makes you invested in the character.

    Couldn't have said it better myself

    kiros
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited September 2012
    Read my post more carefully; I said that it rerolls any array with a total of fewer than 75 points, not more.

    So any roll that adds up to 75 or more is legal; anything less than 75 will be discarded. The game already has a limiting mechanism in place to make sure that your character isn't too weak.

    I also would like to clarify what I said above about point-buy in tabletop. In tabletop, you're playing with other people; if you want to run a fair game where all players begin with the same set of tools to build their characters, then you have to implement a system where that's possible. Point buy allows your players to do just that. It doesn't create random rolls, but it does create a system that, at the very least, puts the human players on equal footing.

    For a single-player game like Baldur's Gate, you're not sharing resources with other players. So a point-buy system is less important, meaning that rolling for stats can be a fun little "mini-game" that also helps you to grow more attached to your character (you're less likely to scrap a character if it took you half an hour to get the stats you wanted, for instance).

  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    PugPug said:

    Spamming the reroll button, then subtracting all the points to see if you have a higher total than the one stored in "Recall" is not a fun experience. It's something that's been greatly improved upon in RPGs that have come since.

    I'd rather see a static number of points or point-buy of some kind.

    I know the game is launching in a week, but I read something about ongoing support. Just something to consider for the future.

    The current system is already breaking the rules, let alone further break them by allowing 'point buy'.

    The last time I played the game I just accepted the default rolls and did not feel gimped at all while playing. Just enjoy the game. I just don't see how lowering your INT and WIS to 3 on fighters and thiefs and maxing everything else, is fun.

    Razimir
  • SenashSenash Member Posts: 405
    edited September 2012
    Menthro said:

    Don't forget, if you are rolling a fighter to reroll until you get that 18/00 :P

    Well, with the +1 str tome, you will have 19 anyway... :) But yeah, it's better to have 18/00 from the start :)

    I'm planning to play the game with 2 friends in multi, and we already agreed to spend the night of the 18th with rolling our characters. It would be cruel to take that one night of fun from us :)

  • ego1steego1ste Member Posts: 88
    I like current stat rolling system, but getting 18/00 was real pain. After a long session of rerolling i managed to get it, but then it turn out i had little points to distribute and my stats looked like crap.
    But as @Senash said it's good we have +str tome so 18/00 isn't a must have :)

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Why not go in and be able to choose the method of rolling your character as a DLC Upgrade to the game. 4d6 drop lowest, 5d6 drop lowest 2... all the way up to that method where you roll 9d6 for the primary stat for your character and 8d6 for the next, all the way down to 3d6 for the least important character stat.

    Awong124
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    Yeah! Have 100D6 drop the lowest 97!

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Awong124 The ways presented in 1e and 2e. 3d6, drop none. :D

    Brude
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    edited September 2012
    @LadyRhian Yeah, 3D6 for all stats would be pretty brutal.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Yet, that was how they rolled up characters in Original and Basic D&D, and in AD&D 1e. Scary, isn't it?

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    I just tried that and rolled a 7,12,11,11,15,11. Ouch.

  • mattinmmattinm Member Posts: 18
    @LadyRhian Well, with the advent of 2e, that's only one of several choices presented to character generation. According to the 2nd Players Handbook, pg 9, Character Abilities, "The referee has several methods of how this random number generation should be accomplished suggested to him or her in the DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE."

    On checking the 2e Dungeon Masters Guide, pp 9-10 present 6 methods for character abilities rolling, as such:

    I.) 3d6 in order. (+) Quick (-) Not very likely to have high rolls.
    II.) 3d6, twice, keep highest, in order. (+) Quick, about the same average as [I] (-) Takes a little longer; high rolls still quite unlikely
    III.) 3d6, arrange to taste. (+) More likely to fit in with desired race/class (-) Slower; high rolls still unlikely; min/max more likely
    IV.) 3d6 twice, arranged to taste. (+) Mix of [II] and [III] to create slightly better rolls (-) Even slower; same as [III]
    V.) 4d6, drop lowest, arrange to taste. (+) Higher rolls on average -- "heroic advantage"; meets most race/class requirements (-) Extremely slow; min/max is all but guaranteed.
    VI.) Points plus dice (+) Quick, easy (-) Not specifically outlined

    One thing to note, also, is that players rolled *before* they chose a class, unlike in BG. This lets you build your character around your roll, instead of trying to build a roll around a character. I like the idea of [IV] or [V], personally. I also like the idea of rolling before choosing a class. That way, I'd pick the appropriate class for the roll, instead of the other way around -- which is a losing battle.

    As it stands, I'll probably roll the scores myself using a method that I enjoy, and Ctrl+8 to set it up correctly (though this causes problems with STR, as mentioned). It'd be nice if char gen is externalized, like GemRB, because this could all then be addressed with mods.

    BrudeRazimir
  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    Aosaw said:

    Read my post more carefully; I said that it rerolls any array with a total of fewer than 75 points, not more.

    So any roll that adds up to 75 or more is legal; anything less than 75 will be discarded. The game already has a limiting mechanism in place to make sure that your character isn't too weak.

    Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood.

    Do we known anything else about how it works? Did someone figure this out, or did they find the script and read it for themselves?

  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    Let it be known that this thread caused me to reinstall BG just to roll stats.

    ...I hate you all. :)

    mlneveseBrudemoody_mage
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,114
    I share your pain... just stopped a BGT run and started rolling chars again...

  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560

    Let it be known that this thread caused me to reinstall BG just to roll stats.

    ...I hate you all. :)

    Same. Decided to roll a Ranger/Cleric. Got to the stats screen and my FIRST roll allowed this:

    STR: 18/47
    DEX: 18
    CON: 18
    INT: 11
    WIS: 18
    CHA: 10

    I think I moved around maybe 3-4 points total. A good omen? I've *never* been that insanely lucky with character gen in any RPG in my life. :D

  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    edited September 2012
    You fool! Now you will never be that lucky again!!

    For hours after installing the EE you will click and click and click trying to duplicate that point array, but in vain... VAIN!!!

    (actually ranger/cleric is the easiest class combination to get high rolls for since every stat except maybe INT is a class stat)

    Personally I never dual/ or multi/ class anything.

    Brudekiros
  • RazimirRazimir Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2013
    I think that points adjustments are really OP and not that fun. I prefer to roll, then pick up class based on roll.

    Post edited by Razimir on
  • IecerintIecerint Member Posts: 418
    Mortianna said:

    I never liked the fixed stat/point-buy allocation. It operates on the assumption that every character has the same total sum of ability points (not accounting for racial bonuses/penalties). It's naively egalitarian. As in real life, not everyone is equal in ability or potential.

    It actually just assumes that the PC has an established power level.

  • bill_zagoudisbill_zagoudis Member Posts: 207
    while i agree i guess it's too late now the game's out

Sign In or Register to comment.