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Reflections after a first-time runthrough as solo mage

This post is admittedly a bit unfocused, but I'm compelled to get a few things off my chest and perhaps a kind soul will indulge.

I played BG2 before but never learned the spellcasting aspect until recently. The first thing I discovered was how broken several spells are, and that they apparently have been so for decades. Which is rather amazing. For instance Mislead: the caster is brokenly still invisible after attacking, despite the description that says it works as Improved Invisibility, that is, the caster should be detectable after attacking. Among other things this permits unlimited backstabbing for a mage/thief, which doesn't make any in-world sense.

Another bogus spell is Project Image. Doubling the caster's memorized spell slots is clearly not the intent of the spell. It's only an illusion, after all, but even if it were an alteration or whatnot then it would still be stupidly overpowered.

Moving to a different area of brokenness: why is the original XP cap removed on SoA? The game was designed for XP below 3 million; it's not for godlike characters with epic abilities. The game was already sufficiently easy with the cap in place -- why remove it and render it insanely easy (in other words, not fun)? Not to mention that it's a slap in the face to the original SoA designers.

Lastly, the "collector's edition" items are similarly unbalancing. For instance the Vecna robe alone changes the entire dynamic of the game. Have you ever played a game that enticed you to buy powerful in-game items with real-world money? I find such things viscerally gross, but that is similar to the origin of Vecna and friends, which, somehow, eventually became included in the game proper.

I presume all this is part of the impetus for modding, but that doesn't answer the question of why such enduring brokenness to begin with? I mean, how hard can it be to fix Project Image, for instance? Why leave it to modders to fix it?

Comments

  • JustLeftJustLeft Member Posts: 76
    I am assuming the game pre ToB was set to 3mil cap, since the game now comes with ToB and Watcher's Keep already in, its uncapped.

    For the broken items, you can just not use or buy them, if you use mods, you just remove them or move them to ToB.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    For every one person who complains that things are broken, there is another person who would never see the sanctity of the original touched in any way.

    "Balance" is a tricky thing to define, and quite complex an issue. Plus, since this is single player only, balance concerns are not THAT high of a priority.

    There's also just plain and simple practicality to worry about. Fixing old stuff means resources away from making new stuff. Choices have to be made. And since it's so trivial to mod these things and there already exist many very well-written and highly popular mods (like SCS, IR, SR, etc.) that address many of the issues...

    If you find the vanilla game too easy, I strongly encourage you to try out mods. SCS in particular will open entirely new worlds to veteran players who know how to kick the engine's butt (but I also highly recommend the Item Revisions and Spell Revisions mods on top of that).
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    The removal of the XP cap wouldn't matter anyway if you weren't soloing. A party of six probably wouldn't reach 3000000 experience by the end of Shadows of Amn.
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Welcome to the forums @Ishii! I agree with Lord_Tansheron, it isn't practical at this point and if Beamdog were to nerf those spells, I can only imagine the outraged threads here.... Once you have beaten the game though and find it easy even at hard levels then try SCS and IR and SR and see how different the experience can be.
  • jtthjtth Member Posts: 171

    The removal of the XP cap wouldn't matter anyway if you weren't soloing. A party of six probably wouldn't reach 3000000 experience by the end of Shadows of Amn.

    Actually it happens in the Underdark if you are a completionist.

    SCS, Item and Spell Revisions balance things out perfectly.
  • CrimefighterCrimefighter Member Posts: 9
    edited July 2016
    Shadow Door and Improved Invisibilty are good spells and I don't think they are overpowered, but I don't use Mislead/PI/Simulacrum for the reasons you mentioned. Makes for a more enjoyable game experience for me.

    Edit: As an aside, what was your favourite strategy for dealing with Magic Resistant foes? Using summons?
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    edited July 2016
    jtth said:

    The removal of the XP cap wouldn't matter anyway if you weren't soloing. A party of six probably wouldn't reach 3000000 experience by the end of Shadows of Amn.

    Actually it happens in the Underdark if you are a completionist.
    It does? That's about the point that I reached 3000000 experience when I was soloing! I must be missing a lot of the game if I only got a sixth of the experience I could've gotten.
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919

    jtth said:

    The removal of the XP cap wouldn't matter anyway if you weren't soloing. A party of six probably wouldn't reach 3000000 experience by the end of Shadows of Amn.

    Actually it happens in the Underdark if you are a completionist.
    It does? That's about the point that I reached 3000000 experience when I was soloing! I must be missing a lot of the game if I only got a sixth of the experience I could've gotten.
    It depends on how many of the chapter 2 quests you do before leaving for Brynnlaw.
  • GallengerGallenger Member Posts: 400
    edited July 2016
    Dungeons and Dragons just in and of itself is not particularly well balanced, every edition has at least a few things that are (either by design or not) found to be stupendously powerful, and as a result some groups choose not to allow or utilize those things. If you find a particular thing to be game-breakingly powerful, or powerful to the point where you feel no reason to use anything else, you can just not use it and feel happy from then on :D I know the group I grew up playing with banned Polymorph spells and still to this day I constantly forget that that's even a thing in D&D lol.

    As I recall the BG2 collectors edition had lots of really neat stuff besides just the extra items which are now included (and were originally given away for free after BG2 had been out a while, or was it with ToB? I can't remember). Some of the items are actually pretty good for different character builds (helping them out mainly) and some are stupendously powerful and available from day 1, which can pose a problem. You could just ignore them completely, or only the ones you think are too powerful they're by no means required to complete the game.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    mf2112 said:

    jtth said:

    The removal of the XP cap wouldn't matter anyway if you weren't soloing. A party of six probably wouldn't reach 3000000 experience by the end of Shadows of Amn.

    Actually it happens in the Underdark if you are a completionist.
    It does? That's about the point that I reached 3000000 experience when I was soloing! I must be missing a lot of the game if I only got a sixth of the experience I could've gotten.
    It depends on how many of the chapter 2 quests you do before leaving for Brynnlaw.
    Also, quest experience is given out as a set amount per party member. So a solo character gets far less than six times a full party character.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592

    jtth said:

    The removal of the XP cap wouldn't matter anyway if you weren't soloing. A party of six probably wouldn't reach 3000000 experience by the end of Shadows of Amn.

    Actually it happens in the Underdark if you are a completionist.
    It does? That's about the point that I reached 3000000 experience when I was soloing! I must be missing a lot of the game if I only got a sixth of the experience I could've gotten.
    Depends on how much of a completionist you are, and whether you go to WK in SoA or not. And how many of the EE quests you do (these bring a lot more than the average personal quest). I do only the NPCs of my team quest (not swapping characters to get their quests) and don't go further than 1st floor, and I usually reach 3.5 to 4m by the end of SoA depending on how many EEquests I do.
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