Personally, I adored Skie's advancement in SoD. One of the few things that really hit the right tone with me (Neera's part being the other major one, actually adding something valuable to her story rather than tacking on a vestigial mass that only serves to disrupt what was already there, though even that causes impressive plot holes with her supposed boyfriend in Baldur's Gate).
Skie is a great example of roleplaying a character's stats. Exceptional intelligence, abysmal wisdom. She knows a lot, but doesn't think things through. She's not easily lied to, but very easily deceived. (Eldoth provides exactly what he says he will, he just has ulterior motives.)
The major traits of Skie remain consistent in both games: she is a romantic, easily inspired, at times willfully ignorant, and very, very self-centered.
That said, Skie manages to grow immensely between games. Before she was only interested in what she wanted, and resented everything that got in the way (including her family). Now she is trying to live up to her father's legacy by becoming a Flaming Fist herself, trying to become a badass in her own right rather than following a badass (like the Scion) or a manipulative bastard (like Eldoth... and perhaps the Scion).
Becoming a Flaming Fist, however, doesn't stop her from being Skie. You can see she's trying very hard to become something more, but she's still got the old hang-ups about boredom and effort without immediate payoff. So, even as she tries to hide her status in an effort to prove her worth as Skie Bronzebuckler, she still can't bring herself to think like a soldier, like a single part of the machine rather than showing her own agency. She complains about the work. She goes AWOL. She picks fights she can't win. She has matured while at the same time remaining Skie at her core. That's actually an impressive bit of writing.
What makes it better is that you can mentor her and, even if she doesn't change much for your efforts, it's presented in a way that she clearly respects your opinion and takes what you say seriously. It makes you feel like you are making a connection with her, that you could take that fire in her soul and use it to mold her into the hero she could be. It made every conversation with her (my first time through, anyway) a pleasure, one of the few times I felt like I was actually accomplishing anything throughout the expansion, and that feeling only amplified the impact when her role in the story became manifest.
I want to see how her story ends, I really do. How SoD leaves her is just not satisfactory and I'd like to see it finished properly. I just don't think Beamdog is ever going to do it.
What actually surprises me in returning to BG1 was the unique dialogue in the game that required Garrick, Eldoth and Skie in the party. I find that party combination highly unlikely, as two bards in a party seems like overkill, and two bards plus a thief (whose thieving abilities are preset by the time she can be recruited) makes for a very weak party. Plus Eldoth and Skie must have been the least likely pairings that people recruited, given their late game presence and the complications of bringing Eldoth all the way through Cloakwood and into the city to break into the Silvershield estate.
It seems like a very poor return on investment to make unique dialogue for those three in one party.
Speaking as someone who's done it, it's not as bad as you make it sound. It's pretty easy to recruit Eldoth on your way back from the Cloakwood mine, then make a beeline for Baldur's Gate for Skie. Hell, I even did that with a party that consisted of those three, plus Imoen dual-classed to mage plus a Jester PC. It's an underrated setup when you can fire off four horrors at once to make up for your lack of conventional fighting ability.
What actually surprises me in returning to BG1 was the unique dialogue in the game that required Garrick, Eldoth and Skie in the party. I find that party combination highly unlikely, as two bards in a party seems like overkill, and two bards plus a thief (whose thieving abilities are preset by the time she can be recruited) makes for a very weak party. Plus Eldoth and Skie must have been the least likely pairings that people recruited, given their late game presence and the complications of bringing Eldoth all the way through Cloakwood and into the city to break into the Silvershield estate.
It seems like a very poor return on investment to make unique dialogue for those three in one party.
Speaking as someone who's done it, it's not as bad as you make it sound. It's pretty easy to recruit Eldoth on your way back from the Cloakwood mine, then make a beeline for Baldur's Gate for Skie. Hell, I even did that with a party that consisted of those three, plus Imoen dual-classed to mage plus a Jester PC. It's an underrated setup when you can fire off four horrors at once to make up for your lack of conventional fighting ability.
That still sounds like a lot of metagaming to make it work, though. One has to plan ahead and not recruit Eldoth when coming across him, but backtrack through Cloakwood. It's more intuitive for me to go directly from the flooded mines to the city.
I did install the component of BG1NPC that moves the late game NPCs to earlier locations, so I could recruit Eldoth on the Cloak Way (might not be the right name) which makes more sense than him being in the middle of Cloakwood.
It also requires a specific playstyle, it sounds like, where your party focuses more on crowd control and bypassing enemies rather than killing them. Does that not slow your levels and make the later game harder?
That still sounds like a lot of metagaming to make it work, though. One has to plan ahead and not recruit Eldoth when coming across him, but backtrack through Cloakwood. It's more intuitive for me to go directly from the flooded mines to the city.
In practice, the game seems to assume that you're retracing your steps anyways to get to Baldur's Gate, so you just need to select the right area on your way back, but going by the random encounters you get, you're traversing it anyways in-story. More to the point, you don't have to wait on recruiting him to make it work, I just felt like traveling light at the time.
It also requires a specific playstyle, it sounds like, where your party focuses more on crowd control and bypassing enemies rather than killing them. Does that not slow your levels and make the later game harder?
Not really, there's still plenty of ways to kill things, with arrow fire early on, and with backstab/magic missiles from four different casters/wands later in the game. The disablers don't keep you from doing damage, they simply make it harder for enemies to damage you in return. Sleep, Horror, and Web spells do plenty to compensate for a lack of fighters. Actually, the team Horror maneuver was just something I came up with to deal with the fight in the Ducal Palace, since Web would do more harm than good under the circumstances. By using four at once, I overcame the Doppelgangers' saving throws, and was able to defeat them in detail by firing Arrows of Dispelling at individuals, dispelling their haste/blur, but also my own Horror, so they'd stand and fight, and promptly be shot to death by the party.
Similarly devious tactics enabled me to take down Karoug, the Demon Knight, and Aec'Letec all in the same playthrough, so I really wasn't lacking for killing ability.
In practice, the game seems to assume that you're retracing your steps anyways to get to Baldur's Gate, so you just need to select the right area on your way back, but going by the random encounters you get, you're traversing it anyways in-story. More to the point, you don't have to wait on recruiting him to make it work, I just felt like traveling light at the time.
Good point. It always seemed a bit silly to me that when leaving the mines we had to retrace our entire route through Cloakwood instead of make a direct exit from the mines map back to the Coast Way. I guess there must be some insurmountable barrier on the east side of the forest around the mine. But logistically, there is no disadvantage to going back and picking up Eldoth. It's not my usual play style, as I prefer not to "backtrack" or skip NPCs when I first encounter them, but that's just my personal preference.
So do you not talk to him at all when you first encounter him, or does he stick around if you talk to him and don't immediately recruit him? I know some NPCs leave if you don't recruit them in the first conversation.
Not really, there's still plenty of ways to kill things, with arrow fire early on, and with backstab/magic missiles from four different casters/wands later in the game. The disablers don't keep you from doing damage, they simply make it harder for enemies to damage you in return. Sleep, Horror, and Web spells do plenty to compensate for a lack of fighters. Actually, the team Horror maneuver was just something I came up with to deal with the fight in the Ducal Palace, since Web would do more harm than good under the circumstances. By using four at once, I overcame the Doppelgangers' saving throws, and was able to defeat them in detail by firing Arrows of Dispelling at individuals, dispelling their haste/blur, but also my own Horror, so they'd stand and fight, and promptly be shot to death by the party.
Similarly devious tactics enabled me to take down Karoug, the Demon Knight, and Aec'Letec all in the same playthrough, so I really wasn't lacking for killing ability.
I should do a new BG1 playthrough with a different approach to combat and encounters. I'm not very good at strategy which is why I usually go the easier route and just try to nuke everything with magic, but it could be fun to try a more disabling approach. Bards are my favorite character class, more for the idea of them than their class mechanics. They require too much micromanagement for my limited abilities, but it could be a fun challenge.
I should do a new BG1 playthrough with a different approach to combat and encounters. I'm not very good at strategy which is why I usually go the easier route and just try to nuke everything with magic, but it could be fun to try a more disabling approach. Bards are my favorite character class, more for the idea of them than their class mechanics. They require too much micromanagement for my limited abilities, but it could be a fun challenge.
Whatever else you wind up doing, give the Sleep spell a try. It's the best spell in the game in BG1, utterly disabling most enemies that don't have names, and a fair number that do. Even a solo mage can kill most of the early enemies with ease while they're sleeping, and for bards it's even better, because it lasts five rounds/level, and bards level up faster than other classes.
Comments
Skie is a great example of roleplaying a character's stats. Exceptional intelligence, abysmal wisdom. She knows a lot, but doesn't think things through. She's not easily lied to, but very easily deceived. (Eldoth provides exactly what he says he will, he just has ulterior motives.)
The major traits of Skie remain consistent in both games: she is a romantic, easily inspired, at times willfully ignorant, and very, very self-centered.
That said, Skie manages to grow immensely between games. Before she was only interested in what she wanted, and resented everything that got in the way (including her family). Now she is trying to live up to her father's legacy by becoming a Flaming Fist herself, trying to become a badass in her own right rather than following a badass (like the Scion) or a manipulative bastard (like Eldoth... and perhaps the Scion).
Becoming a Flaming Fist, however, doesn't stop her from being Skie. You can see she's trying very hard to become something more, but she's still got the old hang-ups about boredom and effort without immediate payoff. So, even as she tries to hide her status in an effort to prove her worth as Skie Bronzebuckler, she still can't bring herself to think like a soldier, like a single part of the machine rather than showing her own agency. She complains about the work. She goes AWOL. She picks fights she can't win. She has matured while at the same time remaining Skie at her core. That's actually an impressive bit of writing.
What makes it better is that you can mentor her and, even if she doesn't change much for your efforts, it's presented in a way that she clearly respects your opinion and takes what you say seriously. It makes you feel like you are making a connection with her, that you could take that fire in her soul and use it to mold her into the hero she could be. It made every conversation with her (my first time through, anyway) a pleasure, one of the few times I felt like I was actually accomplishing anything throughout the expansion, and that feeling only amplified the impact when her role in the story became manifest.
I want to see how her story ends, I really do. How SoD leaves her is just not satisfactory and I'd like to see it finished properly. I just don't think Beamdog is ever going to do it.
I'm not a fan of TOB.
I did install the component of BG1NPC that moves the late game NPCs to earlier locations, so I could recruit Eldoth on the Cloak Way (might not be the right name) which makes more sense than him being in the middle of Cloakwood.
It also requires a specific playstyle, it sounds like, where your party focuses more on crowd control and bypassing enemies rather than killing them. Does that not slow your levels and make the later game harder?
Similarly devious tactics enabled me to take down Karoug, the Demon Knight, and Aec'Letec all in the same playthrough, so I really wasn't lacking for killing ability.
So do you not talk to him at all when you first encounter him, or does he stick around if you talk to him and don't immediately recruit him? I know some NPCs leave if you don't recruit them in the first conversation. I should do a new BG1 playthrough with a different approach to combat and encounters. I'm not very good at strategy which is why I usually go the easier route and just try to nuke everything with magic, but it could be fun to try a more disabling approach. Bards are my favorite character class, more for the idea of them than their class mechanics. They require too much micromanagement for my limited abilities, but it could be a fun challenge.