Skie's character makes no sense.

vyvexthorne

In BG1 she's just a whiny spoiled 'true neutral' girl with no real ambition who seeks whatever form of adventure she probably read about in cheesy romance novels. All of a sudden she's now acting more like a chaotic neutral 'street tough' sort of rogue. (punching out Bence Duncon.. slaying an ogre all by herself.) Seriously, how'd she get so tough?
I've never once kept her in a party for too long (mostly just to complete Eldoths little quest.) So I'm having trouble understanding her inclusion (and wild change in personality) in this game.
Was she one of the writers favorite characters or something?

semiticgoddess

I think Skie is gaining levels, not changing her personality. A mid-level thief could indeed kill an ogre with a backstab.

vyvexthorne

Her being out and about on her own is a change of personality. All she does is complain if you actually use her in BG1 as a companion. She is in a weird way, role playing a rogue. I never actually pictured her as one I guess.
Basically SOD has gone and skewed my image of a character and that's made me feel weird so I made a thread about it.

megamike15

it's called character development.

ThacoBell

There is no reason for a character to remain static throughout a story. They should grow as they experience new things.

Vbibbi

Yes it's character development. But it's only EARNED character development when the viewer/audience gets to see it. Otherwise it's cheap and nonsensical.

We can accept that things change in the world while we're not looking, but it's harder to accept that plot important characters have such drastic personality upgrades off screen and regardless of our actions. It doesn't matter if the character development is positive, if the development all happens off screen the player will feel cheated of the development.

ThacoBell

Skie was hardly plot important in BG1. Besides, there wasn't much character development to any of the npcs either.

Vbibbi

So if Alora suddenly became a mini boss to defeat on the way to Brynnlaw that would be okay with no explanation? I'm not saying Skie should be plot important in vanilla material to make me care about her in SoD, but I want to feel like I've had some influence on that character development. Right now Skie's character development all happens off screen between BG1 and SoD.

Diogenes42

Hi friends. Glad to hear some discussion of this entertaining character. One thing of note I feel is that she is not "street tough" in SoD. She's a huge idiot who constantly gets into trouble but bumbles into occasional helpfulness.

You can view her character as being the same if you follow the thread of her valuing self-determinism above everything else. She runs away from home because she's bored and everyone keeps telling her what to do. When she joins up with you she hates it because you keep telling her what to do. Then in a rebellious effort to get people to stop telling her what to do she ingeniously joins the army.

She gets more competent in SoD but she is still the same spoiled child underneath it all, most of the time if you want to get her to follow orders you have to act like you think she couldn't handle it and she gets annoyed and rushes off to prove you wrong.

vyvexthorne

Diogenes42 said:

Hi friends. Glad to hear some discussion of this entertaining character. One thing of note I feel is that she is not "street tough" in SoD. She's a huge idiot who constantly gets into trouble but bumbles into occasional helpfulness.

You can view her character as being the same if you follow the thread of her valuing self-determinism above everything else. She runs away from home because she's bored and everyone keeps telling her what to do. When she joins up with you she hates it because you keep telling her what to do. Then in a rebellious effort to get people to stop telling her what to do she ingeniously joins the army.

She gets more competent in SoD but she is still the same spoiled child underneath it all, most of the time if you want to get her to follow orders you have to act like you think she couldn't handle it and she gets annoyed and rushes off to prove you wrong.

I like this explanation. I probably am not far enough into the game to really see all the plot points. Like I said earlier.. I just found her being involved in the plot at all, as feeling strange. And really, just wondered if she was a character that someone on the writing team enjoyed a lot. I might have also felt sort of aspersive since absolutely none of the companions I usually take on my BG adventure were included in SOD.

To me, it would have felt much less strange for some reason, if the character were a sibling of Skies.. A new character that I hadn't interacted with before.

ThacoBell

Diogenes42 said:

Hi friends. Glad to hear some discussion of this entertaining character. One thing of note I feel is that she is not "street tough" in SoD. She's a huge idiot who constantly gets into trouble but bumbles into occasional helpfulness.

You can view her character as being the same if you follow the thread of her valuing self-determinism above everything else. She runs away from home because she's bored and everyone keeps telling her what to do. When she joins up with you she hates it because you keep telling her what to do. Then in a rebellious effort to get people to stop telling her what to do she ingeniously joins the army.

She gets more competent in SoD but she is still the same spoiled child underneath it all, most of the time if you want to get her to follow orders you have to act like you think she couldn't handle it and she gets annoyed and rushes off to prove you wrong.

Yes this ^
*edit* @Vbibbi That seems quite a drastic example compared to what this thread is discussing.

mf2112

Every time I read a post from @Diogenes42 I hear it in Christopher Lee's voice.

Diogenes42

Coincidentally, I possess Christopher Lee's voice in a jar. I got it in an auction a few years ago.

DetectiveMittens

Say what you want about Skie but the Voice Acting was on point for SOD.

Fardragon

The thing about the BG1 characters is they didn't really have any, they where really just a couple of lines of dialogue. This left players to form their own impressions of the characters. Thus, different players might have very different impressions of their characters. If those characters are expanded upon at a later time, whether or not the character development appears to "make sense" depends on whether or not the writer has the same impression of that character as you did.

My personal impression of Skie was "spoiled little rich girl", so for me her characterisation in SoD was spot on.

Rawgrim

Skie had a manipulating BF, and that means she isn't a good "representation of women". Hence the personality change. Safana got the same deal.

Abi_Dalzim

Let's not forget the time one of us got her to kill Karoug in one hit with a backstab:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/13292/karoug-didnt-know-who-he-was-messing-with

Don't f*** with Skie Silvershield. Unless you're Irenicus, I guess, then you can pick on whoever you want.

smeagolheart

I found Skie rebellious to the point of suicidal in SOD.

I mean srsly, at every point she shows up then someone or you is like "Skie don't do that thing it's very dangerous!" and she's like "I'm doing that thing anyway!" every time.

Fardragon

smeagolheart said:

I found Skie rebellious to the point of suicidal in SOD.

I mean srsly, at every point she shows up then someone or you is like "Skie don't do that thing it's very dangerous!" and she's like "I'm doing that thing anyway!" every time.

And if someone says to the protagonist "don't do that thing it's very dangerous!" what are they going to do?

Doing stupidly inadvisable dangerous things is an essential personality trait for any adventurer.

Quartz

Fardragon said:

And if someone says to the protagonist "don't do that thing it's very dangerous!" what are they going to do?

Doing stupidly inadvisable dangerous things is an essential personality trait for any adventurer.

Most of the time I'm happy with this forum having three reactions, but once in a while I wish it had a "Love" or possibly a "I'm laughing my ass off" reaction. Well played @Fardragon.

Kurona

Kangaxx is most likely the perfect example in favor of @Fardragon's point.

smeagolheart

Fardragon said:

smeagolheart said:

I found Skie rebellious to the point of suicidal in SOD.

I mean srsly, at every point she shows up then someone or you is like "Skie don't do that thing it's very dangerous!" and she's like "I'm doing that thing anyway!" every time.

And if someone says to the protagonist "don't do that thing it's very dangerous!" what are they going to do?

Doing stupidly inadvisable dangerous things is an essential personality trait for any adventurer.

I guess so but NPCs don't have the spell power word reload like the protagonist does

Abi_Dalzim

smeagolheart said:

I guess so but NPCs don't have the spell power word reload like the protagonist does

Bondari says otherwise.

smeagolheart

I don't know what a bondari means, is that one of them pokeman things the kids are playing these days?

vyvexthorne

Fardragon said:

The thing about the BG1 characters is they didn't really have any, they where really just a couple of lines of dialogue. This left players to form their own impressions of the characters. Thus, different players might have very different impressions of their characters. If those characters are expanded upon at a later time, whether or not the character development appears to "make sense" depends on whether or not the writer has the same impression of that character as you did.

My personal impression of Skie was "spoiled little rich girl", so for me her characterisation in SoD was spot on.

Yep.. I definitely made up my own characterizations of the cast of BG in my head. Like you pointed out.. they are all mainly silent with hints of personality thrown in by whatever their random dialogue happens to be. BG2, they are all fleshed out a lot more. .. So after awhile, Jaheria, Minsc, Edwin, Viconia and Imoen all seem a lot more important when you replay BG1 even though they really weren't.
I doubt SOD will make me feel that way about Skie though. .. Although it sure is making me like Dynaheir quite a bit more since I decided to just go with Minsc and her. I left Khalid behind though. It's nice that if you just avoid talking to him you can keep Jaheria without him tagging along.

mf2112

smeagolheart said:

I don't know what a bondari means, is that one of them pokeman things the kids are playing these days?

Have you not explored abazigal's lair before?

Fardragon

mf2112 said:

smeagolheart said:

I don't know what a bondari means, is that one of them pokeman things the kids are playing these days?

Have you not explored abazigal's lair before?

Is that a good place to hunt rare pokémon?

mf2112

Fardragon said:

mf2112 said:

smeagolheart said:

I don't know what a bondari means, is that one of them pokeman things the kids are playing these days?

Have you not explored abazigal's lair before?

Is that a good place to hunt rare pokémon?

In fact I believe it is.

filcat88

vyvexthorne said:

I like this explanation. I probably am not far enough into the game to really see all the plot points. Like I said earlier.. I just found her being involved in the plot at all, as feeling strange. And really, just wondered if she was a character that someone on the writing team enjoyed a lot. I might have also felt sort of aspersive since absolutely none of the companions I usually take on my BG adventure were included in SOD.

To me, it would have felt much less strange for some reason, if the character were a sibling of Skies.. A new character that I hadn't interacted with before.

We must not forget that the improsonement of the main character at the end of SOD is manly because he/she is accused of the murder of Entar's daughter, one of the great duke of Baldur's Gate.

MagpieRandoms

Aside from the ending (which I am not a fan of... at all), I LOVE what SoD did with Skie. Her story, her personality... her VA... everything.

She didn't have much of a personality of her own in the first game. She was actually pretty vulnerable in a way. Spoiled and annoying yes, but also naïve and sheltered, and her lover Eldoth was an abusive bastard. She blindly followed him and trusted him and he had anything but her best interests at heart. It was nice to see Skie actually toughen up and become independent (and even if she did make incredibly unwise choices, at least they were her own).

Off-topic question... maybe my memory has failed me here but where did Eldoth end up? What actually happened to him?

I do remember Garrick have a bit of a thing for Skie in the base game. I'm surprised that wasn't alluded to.

Vbibbi

As I remember, Skie mentioned breaking up with Eldoth as an aside in the Ducal Palace. Not an in depth explanation but more "last time you saw me I was still dating that Eldoth creep" with the understanding that they weren't dating any longer. It probably could have been focused on more, but I didn't mind having Skie's development be all on her own terms and not defined by leaving Eldoth.

What actually surprises me in returning to BG1 was the unique dialogue in the game that required Garrick, Eldoth and Skie in the party. I find that party combination highly unlikely, as two bards in a party seems like overkill, and two bards plus a thief (whose thieving abilities are preset by the time she can be recruited) makes for a very weak party. Plus Eldoth and Skie must have been the least likely pairings that people recruited, given their late game presence and the complications of bringing Eldoth all the way through Cloakwood and into the city to break into the Silvershield estate.

It seems like a very poor return on investment to make unique dialogue for those three in one party.