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Solo Sorcerer SCS - Spell selection from BG1 to TOB

This topic is never ending and is always poping up. But, I was not able to find a reliable source of information. This is why I am seeking your help. I inspired from some old post but not sure that they are still accurate.

Level 1:
1 Shield
1 Spook
3 Magic Missile
5 Chromatic Orb
7 Protection from evil

Level 2:
4 Web
5 Knock
7 Mirror Image
9 Melf's Acid Arrow
11 Resist Fear
>> No invisibility for BG1? Not too annoying? Or should I remove MAA and take Invisibility at level 5? What about Glitterdust instead of MAA?

Level 3:
6 Melf's Minute Meteors
7 Skull Trap
9 Haste
11 Flame Arrow
22 Remove Magic

Level 4:
8 Spider Spawn
9 Stoneskin
11 Greater Malison
13 Wizard Eye
23 Minor Sequencer

Level 5:
10 Spell Immunity
11 Animate Dead
13 Breach
15 Lower Resistance
23 Sunfire

Level 6:
12 Mislead
13 Death Spell
15 True Sight
21 Contingency
30 Protection from Magic Energy
>> No protection from magical weapon > Only stoneskin will suffice?

Level 7:
14 Project Image
15 Mordenkainen's Sword
17 Mass Invisibility
22 Spell Sequencer
31 Limited wish
>> Shall I include Ruby Ray of Reversal?

Level 8:
16 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
17 Pierce Shield
19 Spell Trigger
23 Power Word Blind

Level 9:
18 Time Stop
19 Chain Contingency
20 Wish
25 Shapechange


brunardo

Comments

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Not in a particular order:

    Level 1:
    1 Shield
    1 Spook
    3 Magic Missile
    5 Blindness
    7 Burning Hands


    Level 2:
    4 Web
    5 Knock
    7 Mirror Image
    9 Melf's Acid Arrow
    11 Resist Fear

    This is pretty much the best lvl2 spell combination. Glitterdust isn't worth a slot and the main reason why you should choose MAA over Invisibility is that you always want to have at least 1 damage-dealing spell x level, while you can always carry a potion/use a ring for invisibility. (In BG2 you'll have the SotM)


    Level 3:
    6 Melf's Minute Meteors
    7 Skull Trap
    9 Haste
    11 Fireball (if you don't mind to abuse the Contingency MR-bypassing trick)
    22 Dispel Magic (the reason is that you sometimes will want to dispel some of YOUR effect or unsummon a projected image to use your main character. If you really want you can always protect yourself with Spell Immunity: Abjuration)


    Level 4:
    8 Fire Shield (Red) (this is pretty much a must-have)
    9 Stoneskin
    11 Greater Malison
    13 Far Sight (better than Wizard Eye > doesn't die to Death Spell and doesn't limit your summon's number)
    23 Polymorph Other / Fire Shield (Blu)


    Level 5:
    10 Spell Immunity
    11 Spell Shield (you'll use Mordenkainen's Sword as cannon fodder, Animate Dead is not really needed)
    13 Breach
    15 Lower Resistance
    23 Sunfire

    There would be a nice trick with Cone of Cold too, but w/e.


    Level 6:
    12 Death Fog
    13 Death Spell
    15 True Sight
    21 Contingency
    30 Protection from Magical Weapons

    I'm not a fan of Mislead, I'd pick Death Fog over it (damage dealing reason and CC-abuse), especially considering you'll have teh SotM.


    Level 7:
    14 Project Image
    15 Mordenkainen's Sword
    17 Finger of Death
    22 Delayed Blast Fireball
    31 Power Word, Stun


    Level 8:
    16 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
    17 Pierce Shield
    19 Incendiary Cloud
    23 Protection from Energy

    The last 2 work perfectly together.


    Level 9:
    18 Time Stop
    19 Chain Contingency
    20 Wish
    25 Shapechange /Imprisonment


    brunardo
  • SatSat Member Posts: 11
    Thanks Space! Good feedback.
    I like your point on blind for L1 probably better than Chromatic Orb for starting. For Burning Hand, I ll find another way for troll killing, i'll stick with PFE.
    I'll also switch to fireball vs arrow. You are right that it will be more useful in solo. You also raised a good issue with wizard eye that needs to be replaced with farsight.
    I am not a big fan of spell shield, it is useful mainly on beholder - scroll use instead. It has very limited use (or I don't see them).
    I consider using the dragon disciple kit, still not decided to trade with 1 spell less per level per day. Therefore, no need of fire shield. And without spider spawn, I am not sure that I can pass some difficult fights in BG1 and early BG2.
    At L6, it is a difficult choice between mislead and deathfog...
    For L7, also not easy choice maybe not take Mass Invisibility (Mislead will do it then) and go for delayed fireball.
    For L8, to replace Pierce Shield with something more useful simulacrum?.

    With your input, the list will be:
    1 Shield
    1 Spook
    3 Magic Missile
    5 Blind
    7 Protection from evil

    Level 2:
    4 Web
    5 Knock
    7 Mirror Image
    9 Melf's Acid Arrow
    11 Resist Fear

    Level 3:
    6 Melf's Minute Meteors
    7 Skull Trap
    9 Haste
    11 Fireball
    22 Remove Magic

    Level 4:
    8 Spider Spawn
    9 Stoneskin
    11 Greater Malison
    13 Farsight
    23 Minor Sequencer

    Level 5:
    10 Spell Immunity
    11 Animate Dead
    13 Breach
    15 Lower Resistance
    23 Sunfire

    Level 6:
    12 Mislead
    13 Death Spell
    15 True Sight
    21 Contingency
    30 Protection from Magic Energy
    I stick to Magic Energy as the idea is not to be in front line. But, Death fog is very appealing.

    Level 7:
    14 Project Image
    15 Mordenkainen's Sword
    17 Mass Invisibility
    22 Spell Sequencer
    31 Limited wish
    Still not sure to keep MI and maybe replace with delayed fireball. MI was to use on summons with haste.

    Level 8:
    16 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
    17 Spell Trigger
    19 Power Word Blind
    23 Simulacrum

    Level 9:
    18 Time Stop
    19 Chain Contingency
    20 Shapechange
    25 Wish

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    edited September 2016
    As you see fit :)
    Just a couple notes:

    - Pierce Magic is needed for Spell Trap. Plus will be your only spell, aside Lower Magic Resistance (that doesn't work on Liches, for example) to low MR.

    - You will ALWAYS be in the front line, and actually you should be fine with it since there is nothing that can touch a full buffed mage/sorcerer.

    - The reasons why you should pick Fireshield Red are many:
    1) passive aggression > you cast Stoneskin/PfMW and tank the hits while enemies kill themselves (an example)
    2) with other fire res items/spells/class ability (Dragon Disciple) you can easily reach 100+ and drop as many Fireballs, Incendiary Clouds, etc at your feet without even caring (and potentially heal because of it)
    3) what do you need Protection from Magical Energy for? Magic Missle? ADHW? You have Spell Immunity for that!

    - I don't know if you play with mods but from my point of view Protection from Magical Weapons is a must, other than totally different from Stoneskin. The first renders you immune to magical weapons, the second prevents physical damage to hurt you.
    This means that a Mindflyer will still suck your brain with Stonesking, but not with PfMW. Same goes for Vampire level drains, elemental damage from weapons, etc.

    Post edited by SpaceInvader on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    gorgonzola
  • SatSat Member Posts: 11
    Thanks to both of you for your inputs. The idea will be to do it with SCS (and maybe Ascension). i am currently testing SCS/Ascension it with a sorcerer but with a full team. So, not exactly the same as other mages can cast what is not on the spell book of the sorcerer.

    For spider spawn, it is difficult not to pick up. I am not sure how to survive early game without. Moreover, if I go for Mislead, it is redundant with Improved Invisibility. Mislead is also for defensive purpose.


    Close to final list, with your ihelp made a few modifications:
    Level 1:
    1 Shield
    1 Spook
    3 Magic Missile
    5 Blind
    7 Chromatic Orb (instead of PfE)

    Level 2:
    4 Web
    5 Knock
    7 Mirror Image
    9 Melf's Acid Arrow
    11 Resist Fear

    Level 3:
    6 Melf's Minute Meteors
    7 Skull Trap
    9 Haste
    11 Fire arrow (Instead of Fireball)
    22 Dispel Magic (Instead of Remove Magic)

    Level 4:
    8 Spider Spawn
    9 Stoneskin
    11 Greater Malison
    13 Farsight
    23 Ice Storm (Instead of Minor sequencer)

    Level 5:
    10 Spell Immunity
    11 Animate Dead
    13 Breach
    15 Lower Resistance
    23 Sunfire / (or rather Spell Shield – as it is late I can see if needed)
    I am not sure about Spell Shield as it protects only against one remover. will have to see in practise.

    Level 6:
    12 Protection from Magic Weapon
    13 Mislead
    15 Death Spell
    21 True Sight
    30 Contingency
    PfME is moved out. Belt and spell turning from book will compensate (I hope…)

    Level 7:
    14 Project Image
    15 Mordenkainen's Sword
    17 Mass Invisibility
    22 Spell Sequencer
    31 Ruby ray of reversal (instead of limited wish)
    What is the difference between Ruby ray and breach except that it is a level 7 that will affect lich?

    Level 8:
    16 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
    17 Spell Trigger
    19 Power Word Blind
    23 Incendiary cloud (Instead of simulacrum)

    Level 9:
    18 Time Stop
    19 Chain Contingency
    20 Shapechange
    25 Wish

    I was wondering to roll a Dragon Disciple, does the limitation per day of spell is a big pain in solo with SCS (again a very typical question...)?

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    edited September 2016
    Here, this should help: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y7r2Z3FfZk74NdAVHuZuiNmWh14y1tAytNrsFMSY7zc/edit#gid=0

    Unfortunately the DD bonuses don't make up for the loss of 1 spell/level.
    Not that a good DD would ever find difficulties anyway. We're still talking about the most op and broken class in the BG saga :tongue:

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    chimaera said:

    otherwise incendiary cloud is competing with horrid wilting. Especially if you go SCS and Ascension.

    ADHW is party-friendly, IC isn't. The first can't bypass MR, the second can if used in a CC.
    Many monsters are immune to fire damage but almost none to magical.
    IC deals a lot more damage considering its whole duration.
    They are used in different situations.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,647
    edited September 2016
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    chimaera said:

    chimaera said:

    otherwise incendiary cloud is competing with horrid wilting. Especially if you go SCS and Ascension.

    ADHW is party-friendly, IC isn't. The first can't bypass MR, the second can if used in a CC.
    Many monsters are immune to fire damage but almost none to magical.
    IC deals a lot more damage considering its whole duration.
    They are used in different situations.
    I am not a big fan of using spell bugs; if ic bypasses mr where it shouldn't, then I'd just skip it altogether.
    Understandable.

  • SatSat Member Posts: 11
    The list is complete only a question for Level 23 with 2 spells that can be moved. I need to check Spell Shield as in BP or vanilla it was not critical not to have it. For the second (level 8), many choices are potentially good. I will see on the spot. The road map is pretty clear. Thanks for the advice (especially for Ruby Ray that I may have missed)!

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,647
    One possible alternative that I often use is avoid Lower Resistance at lev 5, freeing a place for Spell Shield or Feeblemind that in the hands of a Sorcerer can be really powerful against dragons and other strong enemies.
    To lower the resistance will be used Pierce Magic (that hits also some enemies immune to lev 5 spells), spell that works wonderfully with Ruby Ray (used first to remove the spell immunity or trap). Having a single spell serving 2 different purposes is a good synergy for a Sorcerer. This mean to loose mislead, an interesting spell if used like the enemy use it, without hiding it, but not a big problem if its abuse is planned, the SoTM is perfect for that, the same thing just at the cost of some more clicking on the weapon button.

  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Sat said:

    This topic is never ending and is always poping up. But, I was not able to find a reliable source of information. This is why I am seeking your help. I inspired from some old post but not sure that they are still accurate.

    Level 1:
    1 Shield
    1 Spook
    3 Magic Missile
    5 Chromatic Orb
    7 Protection from evil

    Level 2:
    4 Web
    5 Knock
    7 Mirror Image
    9 Melf's Acid Arrow
    11 Resist Fear
    >> No invisibility for BG1? Not too annoying? Or should I remove MAA and take Invisibility at level 5? What about Glitterdust instead of MAA?

    Level 3:
    6 Melf's Minute Meteors
    7 Skull Trap
    9 Haste
    11 Flame Arrow
    22 Remove Magic

    Level 4:
    8 Spider Spawn
    9 Stoneskin
    11 Greater Malison
    13 Wizard Eye
    23 Minor Sequencer

    Level 5:
    10 Spell Immunity
    11 Animate Dead
    13 Breach
    15 Lower Resistance
    23 Sunfire

    Level 6:
    12 Mislead
    13 Death Spell
    15 True Sight
    21 Contingency
    30 Protection from Magic Energy
    >> No protection from magical weapon > Only stoneskin will suffice?

    Level 7:
    14 Project Image
    15 Mordenkainen's Sword
    17 Mass Invisibility
    22 Spell Sequencer
    31 Limited wish
    >> Shall I include Ruby Ray of Reversal?

    Level 8:
    16 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
    17 Pierce Shield
    19 Spell Trigger
    23 Power Word Blind

    Level 9:
    18 Time Stop
    19 Chain Contingency
    20 Wish
    25 Shapechange


    Mislead and Project Image are cheese. Leave them out. The AI cannot deal with them properly, even in SCS. You may as well enable cheats.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,647
    I agree on mislead, at least on how it can be abused.

    Also PI can be used in cheesy ways, but I personally refuse to call the use of PI cheese, is very different from PnP one, but this is a CRPG, and PI as it is is a regolar feature of the game.
    If someone chose to not use it is fine, but calling cheese a regolar feature of the game, a spell, and not some easy uses of it, is derespectful and judgmental for the players that have a different opinion.
    I don't call cheese rolling very high stats or choosing to have the maxed HP gain on leveling up just for the fact that I personally don't do those things, I like to respect other players choices.

    semiticgod
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,647
    @Sat
    5 Knock
    With a natural good str and the scrolls that can be found is possible to open all the essential locks and doors to beat the game loosing only minor or not essential loot. soloing knok is not one of my priorities, if my sorc has not good str I would anyway choose the str spell, that is also useful if he has to mlee or use his sling.

    >> No invisibility for BG1? Not too annoying? Or should I remove MAA and take Invisibility at level 5? What about Glitterdust instead of MAA?

    I find lev 2 invisibility essential and glitterdust very useful also in late game.

    22 Remove Magic
    I prefer dispel magic both for self removing some bad effects and to dispel the PI.

    13 Wizard Eye
    I prefer Farsight, at least with the mods that I use the eye is quite easy to kill, with farsight you can control your summons and PI even against enemies that see naturally against invisibility.

    >> No protection from magical weapon > Only stoneskin will suffice?
    Imo no, I would drop Mislead and take PFMW.

    17 Mass Invisibility
    for a one man party? I manage my list to take improved invisibility and have an other useful lev7 spell available.

    >> Shall I include Ruby Ray of Reversal?
    With SCS yes, in vanilla you can live without it, but is good to have it.
    here the problem that I see is an other, you have the first spell able to dispel magical protection only at lev7, and a solo char that rely to his spells to damage things.
    Is true that you can use dispell/remove magic, but I find very useful to have also something other earlier.

    31 Limited wish
    Instead I will choose finger of death that combined with GM rules.

    Level 8:
    I find simulacrum really useful for a solo sorc, does not suffer TS, does not paralyze you and in end game can even reach lev9 castings. Not everybody's choice, you can live without it, but is a fantastic second mage for your one man party. In some situations I have both PI and simulacrum fighting for me.

    17 Pierce Shield
    RRoR + lower resistance do the same, and avoiding it you free a place for simulacrum.





    brunardo
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 782
    So a couple thoughts and possibilities:
    Level 1: What's PfE being used for? The +2 AC for all of one turn? There're no demon summoning spells in your repertoire so this is kinda weird. Blindness or Identify should probably go in this slot.
    Level 3: Spell Thrust > Haste. There's very little minion-mancy going on with the rest of the spells, and you should have the Boots of Cheetah Speed anyhow. Spell thrust allows you to actually duel mages in the early-game, and remains relevant by being able to strip all SI's if it's not blocked.
    Level 4: There's tons of useful spells here, honestly. Polymorph Self, AKA Mustard Jelly form, offers 100% magic resist if there're no melee fighters about.
    Improved Invisibility is a must, either here or through a level 5 Shadow Door. Being untargetable is the most basic counter for 90% of things that can kill you in a solo. The +4 to all saves is fantastic as well.
    Teleport Field has been used to great effect, nullifying tons of things that could otherwise threaten in melee. Dependent on failed saving throws though.
    Level 5: Cloudkill over Sunfire, maybe?
    Level 6: I'll echo the chorus: PfMW is too good to pass up. Nishruu is also worth looking into as another possible way to shut down spellcasters. Pierce Magic is the last consideration, but it's hard to fit in.
    Level 7: Either Khelben's Warding Whip or the Ruby Ray for removing spell protections: you're lacking those, from what I can see.
    Level 8: Bigsby's Clenched Fist is a one round guarantee stun, unless immune, so possibly over PW:B?

    Again, none of these are musts besides II or Shadow Door. Take one.

    gorgonzola
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member Posts: 14,439
    @Neverused: Unless you're using Spell Revisions, Teleport Field offers no save and bypasses magic resistance. As far as I know, the only things it won't affect are friendly critters and Melissan.

    gorgonzolamf2112
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,647
    Neverused said:


    Level 5: Cloudkill over Sunfire, maybe?

    Cloudkill is a fantastic spell and my solo sorcerer used it many times.... selling and buying fully charged a wand :smile:
    The same is true for fireball and low level summons. A solo sorcerer need few equipment and has a lot of money, he also doesn't need scrolls to learn spells, but can use scrolls to cast those situational spells that are used only in few battles.


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