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Advanced AI

Is anyone else playing with Advanced AI?

I have been in my first 2.0 playthrough, just to see what it's like. I thought I'd start a thread to compare notes.

I haven't played with party AI since my very first playthrough back in '98.

Some observations:
  1. I turned off offensive and defensive spells after a while, Jaheira and Dynaheir were wasting them on kobolds and xvarts. It did, however, remind me to use some spells I hadn't been using before. After every rest, Dyna would cast Armor. I hadn't realized that it lasted so long. Of course, casting it in the inn in town was kind of a waste since it would wear off before we got anywhere, but now I cast it when I get to the map I want to explore.
  2. Minsc charmed a wolf! Very cool. Too bad it was the one that everyone else was killing, but it's the thought that counts. Suggestion to developers: Have the script target spells like charm and hold at the enemy farthest from the party. The enemy closest to the party already has a face-full of arrows and bullets.
  3. I've got everybody set to "Prefer ranged weapons". If my front line (Minsc and PC) get close enough the enemy, we switch to melee weapons. However, after the fight, Michael immediately changes back to bow, but Minsc never does. If I don't manually change Minsc back, he will rush into melee at the next encounter.
  4. There’s another weird thing with the switching from ranged to melee. My PC is a fighter with 3 pips in shortbows, one in longswords and one in club. He’s got a bow, Varscona and a club in his quick slots. When the script switches him to melee, it always picks the club. Varscona has 16 THAC0 and 3-10(+1) damage. The ordinary club has 18 and 1-6. I don’t get the decision tree.
  5. Minsc on the other hand seems more random. Sometimes the script picks 2H sword, sometimes his dual maces.
  6. I just love the fact that I no longer have to remember to have Imoen check for traps. That right there more than makes up for the annoying portrait chooser.
So, anybody else? Has anyone found any cool things to do with these scripts? Any good combinations of settings for particular characters or classes?
CaptRoryBelgarathMTHMr2150FinnTheHumanSeraph

Comments

  • macomeaumacomeau Member Posts: 80
    I've been using the BPscripts AI for a long time, but I haven't yet reinstalled them in favour of playing with the new AI.
    1. I have the same "not switching back to ranged weapons" problem on my PC, who is also a Ranger. She's the only one.
    2. I also have a Dwarf Fighter/Cleric who won't automatically turn undead, but my Ranger will hide in shadows, my Bard sings and my Thief will search for traps.
    3. While characters are happy to use potions to recover HP, I haven't noticed anyone using other quick items. Imoen's wand of Magic Missiles still has all its charges, no matter who's been carrying it.
    4. No weapon choice problems, but most of my characters don't have a choice beyond ranged or melee.
    On the whole BP is still better (presuming no new compatibility issues) but the new AI does get massive points for not having to fuss with anything external. For me, it's probably Good Enough™ that I won't switch back. The biggest miss, for me, is that characters only heal themselves. BP has options for healers to take care of anyone low on HP. I also kind of miss BP's 'hack' to have thieves both hide in shadows and search for traps.
    BillyYank
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    I've seen characters heal each other on my current game. I actually had a problem with spell wasteage when both Jaheira and Charname healed Khalid at the same time. I don't know what the threshold is, but in that case Khalid was probably less than 25%. He still didn't need 2 cure lights.
    macomeau
  • macomeaumacomeau Member Posts: 80
    Yeah, I guess it could be a party construction/timing thing. My two characters most likely to lose HP can (and do) both self-heal (Cavalier and Fighter/Cleric) and everyone else has potions. Healing also seems to be lower priority than it would be under the BP script. I'm used to healers that will drop what they're doing to heal much more readily than they seem to under the new AI, so it may be that the Cleric isn't healing anyone else because they've already drunk a potion by the time he frees himself up.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    I think you're right about the priority, I don't recall anyone healing someone during combat, only after the fighting was over.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    I don't use the party AI, but I am definitely noticing enemies behaving more intelligently, especially the enemy casters. They have some very surprising behaviors now. For example, if they are about to be surrounded, they try to move away a bit. They also have new spell lists and scripts.

    Melee enemies have personality-specific scripts that make them interesting. Cave bears are faster and no longer insist on chasing the same target until killed (they will switch targets, making them harder to kite.) Gnolls are more likely than before to move around your front line and go for your squishies when attacking in groups.

    All in all, I'd say the AI changes are a step forward. I wasn't too sure about it at first, but I'm starting to really like it now.
    Loldrup
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    After using advanced AI for another few months, I've noticed another problem with it. It takes far too long for a character to switch to melee weapons when an enemy gets in close. I've seen wolves make two attacks before the character switched from bow to sword. I know that characters take a penalty to THAC0 when attacking with a ranged weapon in close quarters, and I think they also take a penalty to AC. That transition needs to happen much more quickly.
    Mr2150
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    I use the Advcanced AI - I really like it.

    I turn off all spells (offensive/defensive), like you, to save them wasting the spells at the wrong time. I tend to give my front row 'Attack Enemies' Off, and 'Prefer Melee' On. My back row have 'Use Ranged' On and 'Attack Enemies' On. That way they will automatically attack as the enemies approach my front row who stay still (maximising the ranged attack). When the enemies reach my front row I manually get them to attack, changing the target of the back row so that they are softening the next lot of enemies.

    If the character has a special ability ('Find Traps', 'Sing', 'Turn Undead', etc) then I tend to leave that on.

    A nice feature would be to have spell casting of a user editable list only - so use offensive/defensive/user defined spells. That way you are choosing what spells are allowed rather than just offensive/defensive. That's how 'Use Items' works essentially (the quick slots are the allowable items to use, I think).

    One really frustrating thing I've found is if the AI option has a line of dialogue attached to it. Corwin, for example, will say "Shhh, I'm hidden'" every time she hides. Leaving it on, while useful, can get awfully repetitive when you've heard that dialogue 20 times in 5 minutes.
    LoldruplunarArdul
  • I tried the AI on my pre-made party, but quickly turned it off. My archers would shoot their bows, kill one enemy, then just stand there like idiots.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    Yes, that's another problem with the AI. There's nothing in there about joining the fight if the character can't see any enemies. So in a ranged fight, your front row guys could still be shooting arrows at the bad guys, but your back row can't see them, and there's nothing in the script that says "if the fight is still going on, move forward until you see an enemy, then attack."
  • Yeah, I wasn't impressed when I tried it. Although for some reason, when I play a game, somehow some of my PCs get switched to an AI script, and I have to switch it off.

    Also my PCs like to chase their enemies, if they're fighting something and it runs, they automatically go after it.

    I think this is more like a combat move than an AI thing. Like if you're attacking something, you'll continue to attack it even if it moves.

    I don't mind it too much, but sometimes my party gets too scattered. It's easy to remedy, though, by giving commands to the chasing PCs to stop them from running helter-skelter.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I didn't like all of it, but I sure loved the new AI system . For the same reasons you guys mentioned above I avoid automatic spellcasting. I leave "attack" only for fighters and choose whether to use melee or ranged manually and "ranged attack" for Archers everyone else. Rangers get "hide in shadows" and rogues "detect traps".

    I don't use "turn undead" because it's situational and avoid "sing" because to me it sounds silly to have a party member sing forever .
    SirBundlesofJoy_1912
  • cervanntescervanntes Member Posts: 64

    I tried the AI on my pre-made party, but quickly turned it off. My archers would shoot their bows, kill one enemy, then just stand there like idiots.


    I don't know if this is the case in your example, but one thing I noticed with the new AI is that if your weapons won't hurt the enemy, it won't use them. This can result in one or more characters doing exactly what you just described -- standing around looking like idiots. After I while I figured out this was because they had killed all enemies that they could. For example, if I was facing a vampire with three ghouls, my archers using normal arrows might take down the ghouls, and then stand around like idiots because their normal arrows wouldn't harm the vampire. Switch them to arrows that can affect a vampire, and suddenly they are shooting again.
    SirBundlesofJoy_1912
  • Ahhh, good to know! I didn't think of that. I did change some settings last night. For Auto-Pause, I usually don't use it at all, but I ticked the options for when an enemy is sighted and when a weapon is ineffective.
    The pause for sighting enemies is OK, it may take some time getting used to, or I may just switch it off. But I like the pause for unusable weapons, because usually in the heat of battle, I don't read the stuff below in the text window that would indicate that a weapon is ineffective.
  • Emardon_LareousEmardon_Lareous Member Posts: 60
    I tried the AI on my pre-made party, but quickly turned it off. My archers would shoot their bows, kill one enemy, then just stand there like idiots.

    I've been writing my own AI which isn't too hard with near infinity + notepad, I use the candlekeep training room as my gauntlet :-P
    I added a feature in my ai that they'll never move to engage enemies outside 5' however if anyone is attacked they'll move to support each other if free and not a weakling.

    I struggle with how to handle modals, I'd like them to turn on automatically in combat when useful, if they're equipped with melee and you've moved them away from the action it works, when equipped with arrows it's a little trickier
  • MyceniusMycenius Member Posts: 28
    If anyone is looking at this in future make sure to check out Morpheus's Enhanced Powergaming Scripts - work really well and one of the few scripting options still being continually tweaked and improved... I can highly recommend them.
  • SoidoSoido Member Posts: 338
    @Mycenius

    Huh this is interesting, next gen stuff, threat detection, buff overhaul, bookmarked I will have to examine this in more detail

    How has it been going with it on your side ? Any issues ?
  • MyceniusMycenius Member Posts: 28
    edited December 2023
    There were one or two minor ones when I first started using it about 18-24 months ago but I find it works almost seamlessly. Morpheus is fantastic at doing continual support and adding more and more functionality.

    My only issues are sometimes it's slightly wasteful with spells, having characters cast them when it would be unnecessary (e.g. hold person on a group of Kobolds when your party is all 10th Level) but to be fair I think that's the integration with EEex and how the threat level is assessed. And you can control that by disabling offensive and/or defensive spells and/or item use/buffing & healing spells for either one, some, or all party members. The scripts also improve summons and there are optional enhancements for Planetars/Devas spell casting as well.

    I love the ability to speed up buffing and healing too, and that it does the buffing logically doing longest duration first, etc (in game you can also choose to just do long duration buffs, so e.g. arrive in an area, do long buffs like PoE, drink STR potions, etc, and then do a full buff of all the shorter duration stuff just prior to major combat when you scout out a major enemy, etc...).

    I also use a very small limited number of Mods with them as well to minimise issues - I know a few other people have occasional issues with EPS, but I think that is principally the combination of mods used as many overlap what things they change or tweak.

    FWIW at present I only use (in BG 1/SOD and BG 2) on PC with W10:

    (DLC Merger for BG1 due to SOD)
    EEex
    Bubbs Spell Menu Extended
    Argent7 Hidden Gameplay Options

    Tweaks Anthology (Gibberlings3)
    Enhanced Powergaming Scripts (Gibberlings3)
    OlvynSpells (MESpells)*
    Adalon's Blood (in BG 2 EE only)

    (* and only a minimal install of about 4 options from the whole pack for this, none of the hundreds of new spells).

    I also use most of these in IWD 1 too FWIW.

    (P.S. I use a reduced list on my MacBook as not all of these have MacOS support).

    I've tried a few other mods but they don't play well together or break things. I have found the above list very stable as long as you do install in the right order.

    And, as an aside, I don't use some features of some of them, ever - e.g. I find the Tweaks Anthology's option to speed up/slow down romances in BG 2 always breaks them so I never install that (basically it constantly resets them, especially Jaihera, and almost as frequently Viconia, by apparently deleting the LoveTalks entry completely - so you restart and keep doing the first part over and over in the same game and never get more than about 25%-30% of the way through the romance before it gets deleted or reset again).

    At some point soon I may start to try using SCS (Sword Coast Strategems) with this list above and see if it can integrate okay, and become standard part of my installs (main challenge is usually finding the right point in the sequence to insert it); and there are one or two others I'd like to try to test out too.
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