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(rant) Drow equipment disintrigration

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Comments

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,518
    Yes sir, as it was a way to do something clearly not only not intended, but forbidden, without using cheat codes, or other devices. Is not different than using certain tricks to make an NPC jump behind a wall to bypass a door that you can not open, those are exploits, not cheats, as they rely only on normal game features (and I am not saying that that is the normal and intended use, only that no other means are used). Even if are not less fraudulent than some cheats, are exploits.
    No one of the things needed before the nerf to have the drow equipment passing the check points was illegal, is your right to equip what you want when you want or to ask your ferret to pickpocket or give to you at the moment you prefer.
    Only knowing that to carry that equipment over the check point was not intended permits to perceive the whole sequence as "illegal", even if no one of the single actions is illegal in itself. The finality is surely illegal, so is borderline as in intention it was a cheat, no doubt about it.
    The consequences on the game are the same no matter if earlier it was done using features of the game and after the nerfing you have to use cluaconsole to cheat in the equipment past the check points.

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    I seem to remember that way back when BG II was new, you could leave the Underdark at night and imprison party member equipped with drow gear. Then wait until day, cast Freedom and add them to your party again. It's been quite a while, but I'm fairly sure that worked.

    semiticgod
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,518
    edited March 25
    i still have and use the old bg2 game, so i could test it.
    but i am quite sure that you wrongly remember.
    the reasons are 2, day light, that is used in the items description, has nothing to do with the desctrucion of drow equipment, day or night, as long as the equipment is in some party memeber inventory there is a check, in only 2 areas, the one outside the underdark and the area where you fight illasera in tob.
    the possessions of the familiar are not checked, and that make the trick possible, but if you pass that check with the drow stuff still in possession of the ferret, asking him in an other area to give them to you. and then going again in the exiting area or transitioning to tob forgetting to have the stuff stolen again the destruction happens. or better technically the game engine sees the drow items and remove them putting in the same slot drow powder.
    as the check is done while being in a certain area and not related to light or game phase and freedom makes spawn a toon in the same place where he was imprisoned i doubt that the trick as you remember it worked.
    but is possible that inprisoning the toon before the check is done by the game and then freeing him after the check you can fool the game engine, even if it has nothing to do with the hour of the day or night, but with a timer triggered each time the party enter the area.

    Gatekeep3r
  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    You're probably right. I think I did it in the de'Arnise area, but not sure (hey, it's been nearly two decades :) ). Maybe I consoled the gear in there first and avoided the check like that. Or maybe it was different in v1.0?

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,518
    I tested and used the exploit only once with the original game after tob was released, at the time before the release of tob i did not have an internet connection so i did not know of it, is possible that it worked in a different way and other routes to perform it was open.
    i am not sure, but i suppose that even now, as long as the 2 areas i named are avoided while equipping the drow items, is possible to use them if they are eekeepered or consoled into the inventory.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 162
    It really is a shame the game doesn't check this as the item description states. Keeping that stuff for dungeon dives would be incredibly useful, and it would add in the chance of forgetting the sun was up and walking out at an inopportune time.

    I'm guessing it would involve triggering a check every time you walked outside or the day/night flag changed, which might have been laggy. (or someone just got lazy and figured they would solve this problem real quick)

  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 1,069
    Maurvir wrote: »
    I'm guessing it would involve triggering a check every time you walked outside or the day/night flag changed, which might have been laggy. (or someone just got lazy and figured they would solve this problem real quick)
    I think laggy was the reason, since it was developped for the old engine. Every drow item needs to be checked on its own... Maybe with the possibilities of the EE, this could be turned into an item flagg - now this might be something where the "lazy" reason comes into play, though, because I don't think the devs would get a change like this paid, unfortunately. I would like the idea.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,518
    edited April 8
    i don't see much difference. those items are not intended to be used outside the underdark, if someone manage to do it it is intentional, whether he uses exploits like the ferret stealing them or uses a modding tool to remove from them the drow item flag or whatever.
    let them have fun the way they like, a player that want to follow the rules, to use drow items as intended, don't have any problem, as he goes out of the underground the items are destroyed.

    by the way there is not a real reason for drow items stuffed in a bag of holding that is inside the backpack to dissolve for the day light. to have drow items that dissolve only if equipped ( so a check only as you equip a new item and an other at each dawn only for the items already equipped) would be rp sound even if a little silly. you have to watch the clock and if you forget your item is lost forever.
    if it is not hard to implement the 2 checks it is an idea for an interesting mod...

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 162
    I can't think of any RP or story reason to not make the items behave as their description states. If the item had to be inside the Underdark for magical reasons, fine - but state that in the item description. Instead, it says "sunlight", which implies you could use them outside at night or in other interior areas. That isn't cheese, that's using the item "as intended". The fact that they don't is a technical/software issue.

    I would definitely add that mod, as it makes paying attention to the time of day important. As you said, one slip-up and it's time for another trip to the Underdark. Since you won't have access to the light of day with such gear until Chapter 6, it doesn't even unbalance things that much, and that would be offset by the fact that you can't just wear the stuff like other armor. You would have to have two sets - one for regular use and one for night/dungeon use.

    For an added challenge, I would make such armor sensitive to "false dawn" and "sunray", both of which should crisp your repurposed Drow gear. Imagine that scenario - you defeat the undead monster, but end up naked as a result. Also, such gear could have a negative affect on your reputation, as presumably you have close and continued association with the Underdark.

    gorgonzoladunbarsemiticgod
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,390
    It's not only the exposure to sunlight that makes a drow item turn to dust but the lack of exposure to faerzress, IIRC.

    So even if an adventurer makes sure the gear will never be touched by sunlight the equipment would be destroyed over time anyway.

    And IIRC the same logic applies to a drow Magical Resistance - it fades as the drow keeps itself away from the Underdark.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,518
    @Raduziel this can be true in pnp, but the in game description is different. an imo to try to play more pnp like or to consider the computer game something similar, but different are both valid choices.

    in my opinion the only really powerful drow item is soulafein's cloak, followed by the armor that allows spellcasting making it faster and then the +3 +1apr xbow. those was the things that my ferret used to steal. the fighter armor has a slightly better ac then the best enchanted ones, but most of the enchanted ones are close having some static effects that make them better.

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