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Are you satisfied or do you wish for something more?

chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
Hello everyone. I'm a relative newcomer to making mods for the Infinity Engine games (I've only been at it for a few months), but I played the games even when they first came out in a cardboard jacket. Now that time has passed and I mod more than play, I still admire the achievement of Bioware, but I want to take departures from the tried-and-true formula, because, while it is true, it is also very much tried. I respect others' efforts to add realism to the games, new NPC or better balance for combat and magic; my own ideas tend towards reinventing things or creating something new whole-cloth, and I feel free to draw on inspiration from very different sources. Now some mods of mine are beginning to come out. If a mechanic from Jagged Alliance comes to mind and strikes me as interesting, I don't hesitate to try and adapt it for Baldur's Gate. If I think of a book reference, a movie monster or a device in a tabletop RPG, I may borrow there as well, mix and match, let them steep and harmonize. I question assumptions and I don't know in advance what will happen (though I do scrap the worst ideas).

Now, this is all just creativity 101, and there is merit in conservative changes and tweaks. But I would like to know that ideas like mine have an audience here, limited as it might be. And so, this poll. Cast your vote and confess yourself a traditionalist or an, emm, modernist. The answers aren't going to stop me from modding, it is too enjoyable, but if I see that hardly anyone is interested in changing the basic gameplay, I will find it easier to limit myself to small projects and short hours rather than treat modding as a vehicle of self-expression and hack into the toolset with a crusader's zeal.

Thank you.

Are you satisfied or do you wish for something more? 38 votes

I prefer the basic gameplay untouched. Just balance things, bring more spells, weapons, NPC, maybe some interesting quests or romances. But I want the game comfortable and enjoyable as I know it. I'll have my excitement elsewhere - this game is, most importantly, a classic.
57%
lefreutDavidWHuskarl2006DJKajuruNoonmashedtatersGrond0VarwulfThacoBell[Deleted User]Sertoriussmady3CrevsDaakjustfeelinathomeEmpyrialRavenslightdunbarAerakarGrumkanisatha 22 votes
Change is valuable in itself, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Hopefully it will actually add new varieties of fun, but I'm prepared for the inconvenience and to say goodbye to familiar enjoyments. Whether a game is a classic or not isn't something that matters to me.
42%
KamigoroshiStefanOWowoJuliusBorisovbrusFinneousPJLordRumfishGoturalsimplessemiticgoddessDanacmMirandelbillbiscomegamike15JumboWheat01cbarker15 16 votes
JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    Change is valuable in itself, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Hopefully it will actually add new varieties of fun, but I'm prepared for the inconvenience and to say goodbye to familiar enjoyments. Whether a game is a classic or not isn't something that matters to me.
    Feel free to mod whatever you want into the games. It will (probably) feel right at home with all the other 90's TV show references and 4th-wall breakers that populate Baldur's Gate.

    CrevsDaakJuliusBorisovmashedtaters
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,633
    Change is valuable in itself, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Hopefully it will actually add new varieties of fun, but I'm prepared for the inconvenience and to say goodbye to familiar enjoyments. Whether a game is a classic or not isn't something that matters to me.
    i preety much have bg2 so heavily modded that i consider alot of fan content canon.

    CrevsDaakJuliusBorisovmashedtaters
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,833
    Change is valuable in itself, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Hopefully it will actually add new varieties of fun, but I'm prepared for the inconvenience and to say goodbye to familiar enjoyments. Whether a game is a classic or not isn't something that matters to me.
    One of my runs was based on bringing IWD2 spells and classes into BG2. Just to make the game new again. It took three days of solid modding, and many more tweaks afterwards, to make it work as intended. But it was worth it.

    CrevsDaakJuliusBorisov
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 523
    Change is valuable in itself, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Hopefully it will actually add new varieties of fun, but I'm prepared for the inconvenience and to say goodbye to familiar enjoyments. Whether a game is a classic or not isn't something that matters to me.
    Agree with subtledoctor - as a result I voted not the way I intended.

    CrevsDaakmashedtaters
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    This is a poll, not a discussion. So I'm not going to respond to subtledoctor except to say that he said just what I expected him to say, and voted with the right button. Which means the wording is fine. :) And the conservative option is likeable, I can understand those who prefer it. In fact, if I wasn't through with AD&D, I would probably rise up in defense of the real canon, as it is in the books. But now this game is just a constructor of experiences to me, in a shell I remember fondly, and I want to know if there are others who want to push it the same way, whether with changing mechanics or with content. Right now it seems I'm in a room full of radicals - probably not the case. :p

    JuliusBorisovmashedtaters
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    Change is valuable in itself, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Hopefully it will actually add new varieties of fun, but I'm prepared for the inconvenience and to say goodbye to familiar enjoyments. Whether a game is a classic or not isn't something that matters to me.
    New things are nice as long as they fit within the spirit or the world they're trying to fit into. I love mods in Skyrim, for instance, that add new things to the game, but they are things that would fit seamlessly in the Elder Scrolls world, as if they were always there.

    CrevsDaak
  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 936
    Change is valuable in itself, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Hopefully it will actually add new varieties of fun, but I'm prepared for the inconvenience and to say goodbye to familiar enjoyments. Whether a game is a classic or not isn't something that matters to me.
    I like new things, and I like humor. I guess the only addendum I have is this: if something breaks your suspension of disbelief far enough it can start to detract from the game. Rather than create non-fitting lore or introduce a weird mechanic, you might in fact create a whole new game. If you can do that by building on the Infinity Engine, then cool. In any case, if I decide I don't like a mod... I'll uninstall it. I'd prefer to encourage innovation for the most part though. It's all a matter of determining who your target audience is, and whether you play to their expectations or upset them.

    CrevsDaakchimeric
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    I vote option 3:
    chimeric said:

    I will find it easier to limit myself to small projects and short hours

    Just be yourself and do what you want to do, but limit yourself to small projects and short hours regardless. Work on a grand-scale overhaul or even a total conversion if you like, but keep the project's structure modular. Identify what module of your project requires the least work to finish and concentrate on that first. Share your creation with the community as soon as the module is done and voice a vision of future expansion. Continue building upon what you've done and leverage the immense power of community engagement, for you are never alone unless you deny yourself company.
    In knowing these teachings you will become stronger.

    Grond0JuliusBorisovCrevsDaakmashedtaters
  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 918
    I prefer the basic gameplay untouched. Just balance things, bring more spells, weapons, NPC, maybe some interesting quests or romances. But I want the game comfortable and enjoyable as I know it. I'll have my excitement elsewhere - this game is, most importantly, a classic.
    I like these games for what they are. Gameplay mechanics, looks and rules are the majority of things that I love with this game. It should keep it standards. I would play PoE and Tyranny if it actually looked a bit more liked Baldur's Gate/IWD. Let's not ruin what is so special about this game.

    More NPC's, weapons and spells are always welcome.

    AerakarCrevsDaakmashedtaters
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    I want to ask all about cultural references in particular. It's not the focus of change I had in mind when asking this question, and at any rate I think I can refrain from irony and breaking the fourth wall - the ponies will all run away otherwise. Still, isn't it strange how the games are in an uncertain and timeless terrain when it comes to the age of jokes? The original BG was self-consciously a product of its day - Khalid said "Chi-chi-chia," Xzar did Hannibal Lector and so on. I don't remember any cheekiness in the sequel, and references seem completely gone from Beamdog material. Now, anybody can insert what he likes in his mod, and I too will succumb, but it would be odd to see contemporary stuff alongside old material and even odder - resurrected references from the 1990s, wouldn't you say?

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    chimeric said:

    I want to ask all about cultural references in particular. It's not the focus of change I had in mind when asking this question, and at any rate I think I can refrain from irony and breaking the fourth wall - the ponies will all run away otherwise. Still, isn't it strange how the games are in an uncertain and timeless terrain when it comes to the age of jokes? The original BG was self-consciously a product of its day - Khalid said "Chi-chi-chia," Xzar did Hannibal Lector and so on. I don't remember any cheekiness in the sequel, and references seem completely gone from Beamdog material. Now, anybody can insert what he likes in his mod, and I too will succumb, but it would be odd to see contemporary stuff alongside old material and even odder - resurrected references from the 1990s, wouldn't you say?

    You have to get them right and ensure they truly have become "cultural references" as opposed to passing fads.

    I don't know the Khalid one, so it doesn't work for me.

    So a modern one, as an example, could be "gotta catch em' all", just in passing at an appropriate time, that could work.


    CrevsDaak
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    The originals were passing fads. That's why they worked - people watched the Lector movies then, the Chia Heads and Chia Pets ads were on TV, I doubt they are now. So Bioware wrote in what they saw around with a light heart. I think that's how it should be done.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Change is valuable in itself, and I'm not ashamed to say so. Hopefully it will actually add new varieties of fun, but I'm prepared for the inconvenience and to say goodbye to familiar enjoyments. Whether a game is a classic or not isn't something that matters to me.

    chimeric said:

    I want to ask all about cultural references in particular. It's not the focus of change I had in mind when asking this question, and at any rate I think I can refrain from irony and breaking the fourth wall - the ponies will all run away otherwise. Still, isn't it strange how the games are in an uncertain and timeless terrain when it comes to the age of jokes? The original BG was self-consciously a product of its day - Khalid said "Chi-chi-chia," Xzar did Hannibal Lector and so on. I don't remember any cheekiness in the sequel, and references seem completely gone from Beamdog material. Now, anybody can insert what he likes in his mod, and I too will succumb, but it would be odd to see contemporary stuff alongside old material and even odder - resurrected references from the 1990s, wouldn't you say?

    You have to get them right and ensure they truly have become "cultural references" as opposed to passing fads.

    I don't know the Khalid one, so it doesn't work for me.

    So a modern one, as an example, could be "gotta catch em' all", just in passing at an appropriate time, that could work.


    @UnderstandMouseMagic That's 90s as well!

    CrevsDaakmashedtaters
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Bah, humbug! This is ludicrously biased poll design and therefore utterly worthless.

    Where's the conservative option to which the OP refers? I see only "I want to make major changes (even though I think the game is boring and will still be boring after these changes, but I don't care)" versus "I dislike this game so very much that I want a completely different game (but for some inexplicable reason don't want to buy something else instead)". That's a radical option against a bomb-throwing-extremist-nutcase option, there's not even a middle-of-the-road option on offer, let alone a conservative option.

    [Deleted User]CrevsDaak
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    edited December 2016
    It's all in how you choose to read them. I gave two basic options, rather mildly worded, and I sympathize with both. You are making something completely different of them. But, of course, there are reasons why one can't just go and buy a different good RPG (because there aren't any) and why these games, in some ways, are boring (after so many years and replays). We work and play with what we have. And there is no middle option between change and no-change, though it's usually the favorite of those who can't stomach either.

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