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What strength do I need to be able to open the tomb that contains the tome of strength

I have just been trying a solo Monk run and was wondering what strength I need to be able to open the tomb that contains the tome of strength. I have tried it with a potion of frost giant strength and casting draw upon holy might giving me a 23 strength, but still no joy.

Comments

  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    You need 25 I think. The Red Potion sold in the Nashkel Carnival is necessary for this.
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 169
    Thanks for this Kurona. Dam I think I have missed out on the extra point of Strength.
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Ah, do you have potions of Storm Giant Strength? If so, combined with Draw Upon Holy Might it should put you to 25.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    What's the relation between Strength, Lockpick skill and Lock's difficulty?
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    edited December 2016
    STR doesn't affect the Open Locks skill (as used by Thieves), but instead gives you a different skill called Force Lock (or more colloquially called Bash). The Adventurer's Guide lists the progression of this skill in the Strength table (p.7).

    It isn't explained how this relates to a lock's difficulty, but I suspect this may well be a 1:1 correspondence (i.e. a Force Lock skill of nn% enables you to bash a lock of the same nn% difficulty).

    Incidentally, bashing a lock open gives no xp reward, unlike picking a lock open.

    Edit: for your convenience, here's the skill table (from the manual) for Force Lock:-

    STR Force Lock
    3 or less 3%
    4–5 4%
    6–7 6%
    8–9 8%
    10–11 10%
    12–13 12%
    14–15 14%
    16 16%
    17 18%
    18 20%
    19 50%
    20 55%
    21 60%
    22 65%
    23 70%
    24 75%
    25 80%
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    That's what confuses me, bashing is maxed at 80 while lockpick can be pushed to 250, is 80 equal to 250 in terms of the ability to open locks?
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Oh, just refreshed this page and see your edit, but r u sure it's percentage? That would mean even a 10- str has a chance to get Tome of Strength...
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356

    That's what confuses me, bashing is maxed at 80 while lockpick can be pushed to 250, is 80 equal to 250 in terms of the ability to open locks?

    No. There are lots of locks which can't be bashed even with STR 25.

    On the other hand, lockpicking skill maxes out at 100%. An Open Lock skill of 100 can open every lock* which can be picked, so adding further points up to 255 is just wasting skill points. Of course there are some locks which aren't pickable at all, but they tell you so when you try.

    * Actually there's one lock (in BG2ee:ToB) for which that's not true, but I suspect that's just a bug.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    If lockpick 100 is technically maxed, then maybe bash 80 is just equal lockpick 80 and some lock difficulty is 85 or more but maxed at 100(so that lockpick100 gets 100% chances), just my speculation.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    You can open the tomb with the strength tome with 24 - so any warrior class can manage that with a storm giant strength potion even if they don't have DUHM. As referred to earlier the violet potion is the standby for classes that can't pick locks, use magic or warrior potions. That leaves only the poor old solo wizard slayer unable to benefit from that tome (unless you've got a mod installed to change that).
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    edited December 2016

    If lockpick 100 is technically maxed, then maybe bash 80 is just equal lockpick 80 and some lock difficulty is 85 or more but maxed at 100(so that lockpick100 gets 100% chances), just my speculation.

    That's always been my guess too, and seems the simplest logic, but I've never seen confirmation that it's definitely so.

    There's also a random roll involved in using the Open Locks skill - sometimes it fails to open a lock at first attempt, but may succeed if you keep trying. I think the random roll can make (up to) ±5% difference to the check against the lock's difficulty class, e.g. an Open Lock skill of 70 can potentially (with a lucky roll) pick a lock of difficulty up to 75, etc.

    There's no random roll in the Force Lock skill - either it can open a particular lock, or it can't (i.e. re-trying will always produce the same result).

    Edit: oh! Apparently there is a random roll even with Force Lock.
    Post edited by Gallowglass on
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    edited December 2016

    There's no random roll in the Force Lock skill - either it can open a particular lock, or it can't (i.e. re-trying will always produce the same result).

    The same type of random rolling actually applies with forcing doors/containers open as well. The strength tome for instance can be obtained with strength 24, but that strength is at the bottom edge of what is needed, so on average you will probably need to try 4 or 5 times to get success. Strength 23 will never work though, while strength 25 will normally work first time (I have seen occasional failures though, so it's not guaranteed).
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Grond0 said:

    The same type of random rolling actually applies with forcing doors/containers open as well.

    Oh, really? That's interesting. It didn't used to be like that, but I guess they may have changed it without me noticing. Do you know when this change come in?
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    I'm not sure about vanilla BG1, but that behaviour has always applied in BG2.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    edited December 2016
    Grond0 said:

    ... that behaviour has always applied in BG2.

    ?? Are you sure about that? I admit that I haven't tested it extensively in recent versions, but I'm pretty sure I've tested it since EEs first came out. But yes, I'm thinking about BG1, not BG2.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    edited December 2016

    Are you sure about that?

    I am, yes - that behaviour goes back many years. Here's an example from a new game in Candlekeep in a BGT installation. I know from experience that bashing a chest in the inn requires a minimum strength of 12, so created a character with that and let her kick it open - on this occasion at the 5th attempt.

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Ah, interesting, that's exactly what I've never seen happen.

    In BG2 I've always got a Thief with me, so I've never wasted time bashing locks, so I guess it may always have worked this way without me realising it. It was in BG1 that I sometimes needed to bash locks and established that it never worked like that ... I thought I had re-verified this since BG1ee came out, but maybe it was still back in original BG1 days that I last experimented with this.

    Thanks for the correction, that's good to know. I'll go edit my earlier post.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Yes, random roll exists in bashing too, not sure the exact number though.
    According to bg wikia, within 5 points differences (lock difficulty is higher), lock picking success rate is 50%, it's 100% if lockpick skill is equal or higher.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    JoenSo said:

    What a vicious circle - being too weak to get strong.

    And so we take potions to temporarily increase our strength to get strong ... this is like mario and the mushrooms all over again!
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910
    Things I've learned from video games: if you want to get strong - be strong.
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 169
    Thanks guys all very good points. However my monk is left with an 18 strength and I only continued playing BG 1 to get the strength tome. I will just move her on to BG 2 now.
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 882
    I believe Kiel's chest is the only container in the game that can't be opened even with 25.

    well I thought it was relevant somewhat
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