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[obsolete] Big World Setup (BWS): Mod Manager for Baldur's Gate / Enhanced Edition (Trilogy)

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  • CanesCanes Member Posts: 29
    Rogue Rebalancing, more specifically Shadow Thief Improvements (recommended setting), gives you super-mutant shadow thieves, it's pretty unbalanced on CORE difficulty. I've uploaded a video demonstrating that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0WLbjNKDzk&feature=youtu.be
    Should they be this overpowered? -- Pretty far from vanilla.
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    That seems a bit stronger than I'd expect but thieves are opponents that are supposed to make you change your strategy and you're kind of just going head first there.

    Which other mods do you have installed? Nothing looks like a bug here to me.
  • CanesCanes Member Posts: 29
    edited December 2016

    That seems a bit stronger than I'd expect but thieves are opponents that are supposed to make you change your strategy and you're kind of just going head first there.

    Which other mods do you have installed? Nothing looks like a bug here to me.

    Only have the recommended BWS pre-selected mods, nothing else. It's even worse in open areas, where I don't even get the chance to kill anything before my party is all dead. Front of the Thieves base spawn like 6-8 shadow thieves that keep spamming invisibility and speed potions.

    And yes, I may be going in without much strategy, but I'm already level 10 and not like I have trouble with anything else, just these particular enemies. Wonder what the boss will be like to fight.
    Just saying, kind of overpowered for new players, like myself.
    Post edited by Canes on
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    Could you copy your weidu.log into spoiler tags?

    A few advices since you're a new player, cast stoneskin on your mages as soon as you wake up, it lasts 12 hours. They can then tank a few attacks from enemies like those thieves (some effects penetrate through stoneskin though, be careful). Aoes are very effective against invisible opponents, you can cast stuff like Chaos/confusion/greater malison. Your thieves should be the most vulnerable to backstabs, hide them.

    If you have True Sight, you can try casting invisibility 10' radius with your mage while your cleric casts True Sight(or is it True Seeing? I always forget).
  • CanesCanes Member Posts: 29
    Can't put it in spoiler, says Body is 4939 character too long, but there's the pastebin link.

    Also, thanks for the tips, I didn't know stoneskin lasts for 12 hours, Imma go find some scrolls.
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    Your Nalia already has Stoneskin memorized I believe, you can just cast it from her spells every day.

    Your 1 turn/level also lasts very long. They aren't particularly useful against thieves but it's good to know.

    I don't see anything other than the combination of SCS and Rogue Rebalancing that changes the thieves in your weidu.log so it's most likely just the combination of both. It sure looks a bit tough for a complete beginner but I think a minimal install would have been more suited if you don't have experience with similar games either.

    If you're really struggling with it, you can activate Story mode in the options for the duration of the fight and change back afterwards.

    The difficulty levels also indicate that Easy is better suited to new players than Core so you can think about switching to Easy.
  • HubalHubal Member Posts: 25
    What does it mean "NPC continuity" in EET? Can I play with my bg1 npc's the whole saga?
    And since there is a possibility to go back to bg1 areas from bg2, can I hire Baeloth for example for my bg2ee game?
  • agb1agb1 Member Posts: 249
    NPC continuity means that NPCs that normally are able to join your party in all campaigns will actually be the same NPC (same experience and skills) throughout the game. It does not mean that NPCs that usually leave your party after BG1 and are not recruit-able later will become recruit-able. That can happen only if some other mods are also used (an example: the Kivan mod, which makes Kivan available in BG2).
  • HubalHubal Member Posts: 25


    Well that was quick response. I thank you. Seems you cannot sleep at night just like me.
    It seems now that giving tomes to npcs now makes sense.
  • CanesCanes Member Posts: 29
    edited December 2016

    Your Nalia already has Stoneskin memorized I believe, you can just cast it from her spells every day.

    Your 1 turn/level also lasts very long. They aren't particularly useful against thieves but it's good to know.

    I don't see anything other than the combination of SCS and Rogue Rebalancing that changes the thieves in your weidu.log so it's most likely just the combination of both. It sure looks a bit tough for a complete beginner but I think a minimal install would have been more suited if you don't have experience with similar games either.

    If you're really struggling with it, you can activate Story mode in the options for the duration of the fight and change back afterwards.

    The difficulty levels also indicate that Easy is better suited to new players than Core so you can think about switching to Easy.

    Thanks for looking into it.

    Anyway, it's like I've said, never had any problem until now with the enemies being too strong on CORE difficulty, just when faced with the Shadow Thieves. Fighting their boss was a complete joke, it was extremely hard and unbalanced, it was pretty much unbeatable without cheating. And being locked in that dungeon with no exit or sleep/rest until I defeated the leader made it borderline impossible. I had to turn on Story mode just to get out of there.
    I don't think this mod was tested thoroughly, or it had been but by veterans and die-hard's who think everything is too easy.
    Whatever the combination of mods that made this part unbalanced, being SCS + Rogue Rebalancing, there's no way beginner players will find it enjoyable.

    Sadly, I've lost interest in the game (too bad since I've recently finished BG1) so don't much care about it now, but thought I'd report it so someone more experienced could look into it.

    Easy difficulty does nothing when you are getting backstabbed for 60-90 damage. And their leader, with his super-human strength, you can forget it...

    Okay, I'm aware I sound like a whiny 10 yo that cranked the difficulty to hard and then complains he can't play the game and that the developers should be crucified, but that's why I said someone more experienced should look into it. It's just the Shadow Thieved and their quest that I find very unbalanced. Or maybe it's just me since everybody else doesn't side with Bodhi.
  • HubalHubal Member Posts: 25
    Canes
    I have watched your video and theres nothing wrong there with balance. You are just trying to muscle through everything (there is story mode for that). I am aware that you are new player so here are some tips:
    Block them on that stairs so they cannot backstab your mages.
    Use appropriate spells like Glitterdust, True Sight, Detect invisibility,Greater Malison,Confusion,Chaos,Slow on them so they wont hide in shadows and backstab you.
    Thats pretty basic for SCS even on core difficulty. SCS is not for begginers, its for people looking for a challenge.
    Well I hope you will get back your interest so you will finish the whole saga.



  • agb1agb1 Member Posts: 249
    edited December 2016
    @Canes, thanks for reporting this. It's definitely the kind of feedback I want to hear from players since the BWS Recommended selection is not meant to be extremely difficult.

    To @Hubal's point, I'm thinking to mark the shadow thieves components of SCS as tactical in BWS, so default thieves AI will be used for the Recommended BWS selection.
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    Scs might be a bit difficult for new players but if it's only the Shadow Thieves, it's probably better to just remove the "Improved Shadow Thieves" component from recommended. (Maybe create a whole new beginner pre selection but that's a ton of work in the BWS I believe)

    @Canes Did you play vanilla BG1(no mods) or did you also use the BWS recommended for BG1?
  • CanesCanes Member Posts: 29
    @agb1 I seriously don't want to spoil anyone's fun. I don't think you should make that change based entirely on one noobs opinion. More research needed...

    @Hubal That's the point, how would a new player know what to cast and when to cast. If you play until chapter 3 with no problems whatsoever and then you find this one pretty hard roadblock that gives you trouble, something's wrong there. More so since it's tied to the story.
    Out in the open, it's even worse, where they have x2 the speed and can jump you from any angle.

    @GrimLefourbe Played BGI with the recommended BWS pre-set, just like this time. Funny part is, I found the game rather easy after the first few levels. But then again, there were no overpowered Shadow Thieves there.

    Did a small test without Rogue Rebalancing and it's much more playable now, the thieves don't have unlimited supplies of invisibility and speed potions, and don't go invisible as often. They still use them, but not indefinitely it seems. With Rogue Rebalancing they'd backstab you, go invisible, backstab you again, then go invisible, then backstab etc. etc. All the while at x2 the speed.
  • agb1agb1 Member Posts: 249
    http://readme.spellholdstudios.net/rr_stim.html -- from the description, the Shadow Thief Improvements component of RR seems like it should be classified as tactical although it also introduces some alternative non-combat solutions.
  • CanesCanes Member Posts: 29
    edited December 2016
    @agb1 What about the boss. Can't take alternative stealth-path/non-combat route with him. And also there's this:

    "Aran Linvail's AI script has been greatly improved and his equipment and his class have been slightly revised as well. He is now a dual-classed Illusionist(14)/Thief(16) and dual-wields the revised Short Sword of Backstabbing and the Dagger of Acumen. He has Protection From Magical Weapons, Mislead and Improved Haste in his Spell Trigger and thus, until those are dispelled, every one of his 4 attacks per round is considered a backstab. Before the battle starts, he will also quaff a Potion of Clarity. On top of all that, Aran is a fairly decent mage, and his Power Word: Stun, Chaos and Confusion spells are not to be underestimated."

    And I was only level 10...damn.
  • agb1agb1 Member Posts: 249
    I've updated BWS: Rogue Rebalancing component #12 (Shadow Thief Improvements) has been moved from Recommended (Tweaks) to Tactical (Encounters) for BG2EE. Turns out this component was already classified as tactical for BG classic, but when we enabled it for BG2EE we classified it as recommended along with most of the other RR components. Clearly an oversight.
  • CanesCanes Member Posts: 29
    edited December 2016
    @agb1 So it wasn't just me then. Glad I was able to help.

    I love BWS by the way, made installing and playing with mods so much easier, and I thank you for continually supporting it.
  • HubalHubal Member Posts: 25
    I am now playing BGEET on legacy of bhaal difficulty with SCS. If you are interested I could provide some feedback. It would be great to help you with this project to show my appreciation to your hard work.
  • agb1agb1 Member Posts: 249
    Of course, interested. Sounds like a worthwhile topic for its own thread, though.
  • HubalHubal Member Posts: 25
    Could you make that thread?
    I am kinda new to this stuff.
  • agb1agb1 Member Posts: 249
    @Hubal There is a 'New Discussion' button at the top of the left side-bar on every forum page. I'm not sure what you have in mind exactly. I see there already is a thread currently tracking the progress of several players' attempts to complete a full solo game with LoB+SCS, which probably will be a good source of feedback on the resulting difficulty level. You could post your feedback there (with the caveat that you're not participating in the solo challenge but you want to provide another perspective on difficulty considering that the game is designed around a full 5-member party).
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 526
    I ran into a similar issue on SOD LOB with the spectral in sarevoks hidden room...he would disappear chunk my PCs and disappear again so fast couldnt lay a hit...my detect inv wasnt working and didnt have higher lvl spell like true seeing to counter so skipped and kept on going.
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 526
    interesting about the rogue rebalancing though as not sure if I want to deal with that on my first scs run too lol
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    The Specter in sarevok's hidden room doesn't use potions of invisibility but mislead and sometimes shadow door, you can walk in the room and dispel his mislead(or kill it but he can respawn one very quickly too) definitely a very tough fight.
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 526
    Saw the clip. where;s the spamming of web and fodder like animate skeletons to keep them busy while your tank smacks them with free action and kites back up the stairs :smile:
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 526
    yeah tried my dispel but failed...had some tough fights and almost at the end but that one I had to skip...wasnt worth the treasure for the stress. DO like the rogues better AI on SOD LOB though as they use alot of potions on kiting just not a fan of the crazy amount of HP given!
  • VadrielVadriel Member Posts: 20
    As someone who hasn't played SoD and is doing the trilogy mod for the first time, would it be safe for me to assume that I'm supposed to use my SoD directory for the "Baldurs gate 1" folder during the installation process?
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    Yes, don't forget to use modmerge if you got the game from Steam or GoG.
  • DeltharisDeltharis Member Posts: 124
    How does preserving my mod selection work? Is there some file that keeps the information of what I've chosen? Is there a way to generate such a file? Copy it somewhere safe and paste when the time comes to play BG again?

    I'm asking, because most of my modded installations look same-ish. And every time I'm looking for the same components, making same selections for some mods (like the parts of SCS I like). And while I know that BWS somehow preserves mod choice before starting an installation it looses it after it's finished. And possibly when an update comes.
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