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Valygar or Cernd

Trying to decide between Valygar or Cernd for my next play through. My party thus far is:

Charname, cavalier paladin
Jan Janssen
Anomen
Neera
Mazzy Fentan

Not sure if Valygar would be better for bows, or Cernd for druid spells and werewolf form.

Comments

  • moparmanmoparman Member Posts: 46
    I'd go with Valygar. Cernd is useless. If you want a bear in your party go with Wilson. :)
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    I've used valygar many many times, he can be pretty solid, and in ToB he can wear the white dragon scale +6 to get some styling AC, the problem cernd has, is that once he gets his greater werewolf form, he will NEVER get better, while valygar can keep getting better with equipment you find along the way ( plus valygar will be able to learn abilities like greater whirlwind and hardiness no such luck with cernd)

    so unless you really REALLY want druid spells, go with valygar
  • GoreshaGoresha Member Posts: 4
    Starting to sound like Valygar is the way to go lol.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    plus valygar can backstab as well, so that's not to shabby
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 676
    Don't worry so much about how powerful they are, although yes Valygar is a lot more useful as far as fighting goes. Since Werewolf form has a few problems, but as a druid caster he's totally fine.

    Personally I don't like Cernd because he was simply too boring and monotonous, with a very dull npc quest. While Valygar has some fun involvement with the planar sphere and so on.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Cernd is very underrated for his usefullness. I'd personally go with Valygar, as Cernd is a terrible human being.
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    CERN's, as a Druid, is naturally weak compared to others. His kit is meh, particularly as you get to higher levels in BG2. Druid level progression is SLOW at those levels as well, so he's going to be stuck at a certain level of ability for quite a while, which means he's going to fall behind relative to the rest of the world. His personal quest is uncomfortable, his personality annoying, and if you want a Druid you get a better option within one minute of getting freed by Imoen.

    Valygar has an interesting back story, a great quest, is a good ranged attacker and backstabber, can use one of the top weapons in the game without in estment, gets a smattering of spells, has interesting interactions with Mazzy, and a personality which rather matches my own.
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    I vote for Valygar as well. However, I disagree with those who say Cernd is useless. Fire elementals and insect plagues alone give any party a huge boost.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975

    I vote for Valygar as well. However, I disagree with those who say Cernd is useless. Fire elementals and insect plagues alone give any party a huge boost.

    even call woodland beings is a pretty gnarly spell, especially at lower levels, and even at mid level its still pretty good

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    @sarevok57 Agreed! Call lightning has always come in handy during outdoor ambushes, especially in the early game.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975

    @sarevok57 Agreed! Call lightning has always come in handy during outdoor ambushes, especially in the early game.

    I found call lightning to be super deadly in bg1 especially since there are so many outside encounters, I remember the first time I played this game back in '99 and jaheira finally hit level 3 spells, man was I stoked, not only did it look cool at the time, but it wrecked havoc on baddies, especially those pesky ankhegs :)

  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 918
    Goresha said:

    Starting to sound like Valygar is the way to go lol.

    I would take Cernd everyday. Druid spells can be quite rough at times, and he got a lot of them. Not to mention he can shapeshift into powerful things. I use the SCS component improved Shapeshifting which gives you a token used in the weapons slot. So when he needs to cast spells he cast spells. When he needs to do some physical damage he simply transforms into a greater werewolf. The HLA Shapeshift Earth elemental gives him 100% resistance to all physical forms of damage, leaving him almost killable that way. If you can buff his mr high enough he will be almost untouchable. I don't think Valygar can grow that powerful in the end.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Yes, I vote Cernd. You have to know that (unlike most other characters) his best role in the party changes as you progress, but once you know how to use him, he's very good. (And I'm talking about unmodded Cernd, it's not necessary to change his kit.)

    In early-SoA he's not much good (and that's why he has a reputation as "weak", because most players don't persist with him and find out how good he is later).

    From mid-SoA (level 13) onwards, he has Greater Werewolf form available, and you just leave him in GW form for most of the rest of SoA and use him for front-row melee ... and you'll probably find during that phase that he's your leading killer - he'll probably out-perform even your Cavalier protagonist.

    Then towards the end of SoA, he hits level 15 and instantly has far more high-level spells available, and there are some really good Druid spells at high levels (unlike their weaker low-level spells), but as you go into ToB the melee effectiveness of the GW form is no longer very good. Thus for ToB you move him from the front row (and push Mazzy forward instead, because by then she'll have enough melee proficiencies to be very good up front) and mostly keep Cernd in human form as a caster. In particular, he's the best Summoner in the game, but he has other solid spells too.

    Not that there's anything wrong with Valygar, he's a useful character and I often take him along. However, given the rest of your party, Valygar wouldn't be bringing so much that others can't already do, whereas Cernd would add more value to this line-up.
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    tbone1 said:

    CERN's, as a Druid, ...

    I just realized that my auto correct set "Cernd" to "CERN's". I guess that tells you where another one of my interests lies.
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 451
    edited January 2017
    I'd vote for Valygar too.

    Cernd is, by far, the more powerful NPC, but as ThacoBell so bluntly put it as a character he badly needs more points in INT.
    In BG2 druids remain powerful throughout the game, starting as early as Irenicus Dungeon with access to Call Woodland Beings. The whole "druids are weak" thing is just a carryover from the old BG1, and even in that game you could argue that a PC druid could potentially be broken because of druid XP progression at low levels (they gain levels so fast you could force higher level BG1 NPCs to spawn much earlier - by the time you get Dynaheir she'll already have Fireball, for example).
    Cernd's werewolf forms are there mostly so he has some melee presence at early-mid game. At higher levels druid spells become so powerful you shouldn't be using the werewolf forms at all except perhaps for specific functions, like to regen HP.

    Valygar is best played as a forward scout/assassin-type character/damage-dealer. He's a good character from the outset because of dual-wield, and he scales pretty well into end-game thanks to warrior HLAs/priest spells.
    As a character he can be pretty meh in some party comps, but in a party with NPCs like Mazzy he actually gets a few interesting dialogue. People who like playing an interesting mix of characters (like Mazzy/Korgan/Valygar/Viconia) will like having him around.
    You should only have Valygar use bows for special ammo (like fire arrows vs trolls or arrows of biting vs mages), he should be melee-ing otherwise. Besides, Mazzy is the superior archer.
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