(First, hi everyone, I just found the forum (and am a little sad the game was reported but, hey, if it's for better and greater gaming, all the better!).
Actually, I would really want this too... I've played so many time BG1 and I never liked the way that you "need" to throw someone out before accepting another (sometime just temporarely)... But, not too much also, I mean, there's still a limit to anything!
I'd have to say 9 characters top... So, 8 NPC and you (mister or miss hero) Why? Because it'd be fun, that's why! You don't want it, just don't use it! And for the UI support... Why not just do a character scroll bar?
With a party of 9 characters... A butt kicking party, to say the least!
Game balance, game balance, game balance.... for God's sake you look on the BG games as if they were fighting games. NO! BG is about ROLE PLAYING, PARTY INTERACTION and the STORYLINE. Fight is only an addition. If you only look at the fight and how it is balanced, BG is not a game for you. Go play Diablo.
I would be happy if only somewhere in the options would sth like "Amount of party members limited to player character charisma" even if enabling this feature would make the game unstable and unbalanced (but playable). There of course should be some warning for not experienced players what problems would provide enabling this feature. But the dream would come true - a lot of party interaction!
Exactly! And, to tell you the truth, I don't really think that the game would be "that" unbalanced... I mean, instead of dividing by 6, you divide by 9... So less levels, less specials items per character, less gold, etc...
anyone who is against removing level cap or against expanding party size are bg newbs.
there are no compelling (practical) arguments against these two options in either case. (aside from coding constraints)
just my $.02
let us who've played a million times have some fun, and you stick to your conformities.
remember, including these options won't effect those who wish not to partake, so in complaining about "combat balance" you're not contributing anything worthwhile. (imagine that; the same people complaining are those not contributing)
frankly your protest is bothersome to those with an open mind and imagination.
anyone who is against removing level cap or against expanding party size are bg newbs.
Who are you to criticize others for voicing their thoughts?
There are many veteran Baldur's Gate players within the forums who will disagree with you, instead of being arrogant and knowing you're answer is the right answer, understand other will feel inclined to disagree with you.
I personally think such a change is unnecessary and impractical. If people wish to play with a mob of characters or remove the level cap, let them do so through a mod. Don't ruin the experience for everyone else.
anyone who is against removing level cap or against expanding party size are bg newbs.
Who are you to criticize others for voicing their thoughts?
There are many veteran Baldur's Gate players within the forums who will disagree with you, instead of being arrogant and knowing you're answer is the right answer, understand other will feel inclined to disagree with you.
I personally think such a change is unnecessary and impractical. If people wish to play with a mob of characters or remove the level cap, let them do so through a mod. Don't ruin the experience for everyone else.
You remind me of the type of person who wants to ban something for everyone.
I'm a bit baffled why the wisdom of old was discarded, in Bard's Tale series there was the NPC slot for hirelings or summoned creatures, but that went to oblivion
As mentioned in first post, it seems illogically in order to rescue Dynahair that I must kick a good party member? Ofcause I should be able to let her join for a short while to escort her safely.
You remind me of the type of person who wants to ban something for everyone.
Enough said
This coming from the guy who just called everyone a newb for not agreeing with his statement. I just invoked everyone to share their opinion, have the feature as optional and that pretty much settles the argument.
Please recognise that expanding the party size cannot be done through mods - Due to the nature of the Infinity Engine, it just can't be done. Some amount of work would be required from the dev team to make it happen.
Having said that, whether an 8-character party is enabled for your game or not, is another matter. I think you can both agree that it would be a good thing to unlock, even if not everyone uses it?
Thanks for that info Luge. I don't agree with introducing more npc slots, but having it as optional seems to satisfy everyone.
Personally, I think it dilutes the game and takes away from the classic 6 'party' composition element that has always been present in Baldur's Gate titles.
With a party consisting of 6 members, I breeze through the game with very little trouble. Imagine me with 8? heck, seeing as everyone wants more npc slots..make it 10
With a party consisting of 6 members, I breeze through the game with very little trouble. Imagine me with 8? heck, seeing as everyone wants more npc slots..make it 10
Well, that was kind of the point of the original post... If this is done, why use an arbitary number like 7 or 8? Might as well make it 50 and let individuals decide :P
Although I've had BG for years, I always felt that the "classic" 6-member party was very artificial. See my post on the previous page about a computerised version of D&D not being balanced because some classes have more functions in a pen and paper session than they could ever hava massive here. BG is mainly about combat, so strength 18 is advantage. Charisma 18? Not so much.
Plus, I can always see someone doing a mod of an individual scenario to lead 300 Spartans into the Valley of Death and try to survive!
Just ONE more slot. Just ONE. The only reason I say that is because of the amount of "Pair" NPCs there are. You want Minsc? Gotta take Dynaheir. Want Skie? Gotta take Eldoth. If the party limit isn't increased (the Devs moved the release to November 30th, I wonder why; HINT HINT) then I would more than understand; however the pairs of NPCs on hand should give a bit more option to leave them somewhere or have one of them killed off or something...
Of course the Developers have to follow contractual agreements... but STILL
I think that making one more slot is more less the same difficult as making it 2, 4, 8 or 16... I would be absolutely happy if I could have an option to have bigger party...
I'ld love to do one playthrough with all my favourite npc's all in one big party. I feel like Boo (and Minsk is a useful addition to Boo) is a must, I love Aerie & HaerDalis. I can't abandon Jaheira since she woke up with me in Irenicus dungeon (that would be rude). Same goes for Imoen. Leaves me with room for only one free party member =/ (and Jan has such funny stories...!)
Maybe you could have additional NPC party members that you could summon with spells/abilities or with items and that you could then use for the duration of a given level? I mean, they would still be the same NPCs that exist in game, but somehow you would summon them the way you can currently summon creatures to fight for you. This would solve the problem of getting them through narrow tunnels and circumvent any potential issues arising from traveling between levels with more than 6 characters. Anything hardcoded into the game that dislikes a party larger than 6 could be made to regard them as nothing more than summoned creatures even though they would be capable of NPC-style interactions.
Edit: I recall finding an item in the Shadows over Soubar mod that did something like this with Cespenar, so that you could summon and interact with him anywhere in the game. He would even follow you around between levels once summoned.
As far as what the game can graphically handle, I once used cheats to spawn an army of 2,400 knights of order near Valygar's cabin in BG2 so that I could fight them with my party of 6, since I was feeling particularly annoyed with paladins at the time (and wanted to kill some) due to their racist treatment of Viconia. The game did lag a bit, and it took 7 hours of real time to finish that battle, but I did eventually win. For that matter, with SCS installed you can encounter an army of about 100 drow in Ust Natha, which if they get caught in a bottleneck can all co-exist in the level at the same time. The point being, that having a party of 50 or less added into a given level probably wouldn't be too much for the game to handle since it can handle many times that in terms of opponents.
Personally, I usually play with a party of 2-4 NPCs, but would like the option of having more. It never made sense to me that I was forced to maroon someone in Spellhold if I wanted to rescue Imoen, so whenever I had a party of 6 I usualy just left Imoen there after 'rescuing' her since I didn't want to upset my party dynamics. Having the option to not have to do that would be great!
Maybe you could have additional NPC party members that you could summon with spells/abilities or with items and that you could then use for the duration of a given level? I mean, they would still be the same NPCs that exist in game, but somehow you would summon them the way you can currently summon creatures to fight for you.
While it might be useful on occasion, this doesn't really help us. What we want is to carry more characters for the entirety of the game. Battles (let alone boss battles) are just a small part of it. Personally, I consider the strategic advantage gained in battles as a necessary evil, at best.
Maybe you could have additional NPC party members that you could summon with spells/abilities or with items and that you could then use for the duration of a given level? I mean, they would still be the same NPCs that exist in game, but somehow you would summon them the way you can currently summon creatures to fight for you.
While it might be useful on occasion, this doesn't really help us. What we want is to carry more characters for the entirety of the game. Battles (let alone boss battles) are just a small part of it. Personally, I consider the strategic advantage gained in battles as a necessary evil, at best.
Yeah, I know. I was just trying to think of a way this could work without the hardcoded problem everyone keeps referring to. If there wasn't a limit to how many times you could use the spell/ability to summon the NPCs then maybe you could just use it every time you get past a spot that would be difficult to have more than 6. I'm not sure how that would work in terms of inventory space and equipping new items, but the basic idea seems like it could work. Or maybe it could be possible to assemble a special item that would let you do that, kind of like a longer term and more advanced version of Algernon's Cloak.
So with 3-6 you get a total of six, which was the games original minimum. Anything over 6 CHA and you can have more companions, all the way up a total of 11 people in the party including PC.
I'm all for it. My idea game would be to eliminate the level cap and have all experience split among party members. So you could play with one super-hero, an entire army of relatively weak characters, or anything in-between.
I'm all for this idea (provided they add more evil characters in BGII:EE, since we can't even get a full party as it is). It isn't a dealbreaker for me, though. However, I will say that if they EVER make a Planescape: Torment: EE, they need to do this. The game only *has* 8 characters, after all.
@Eudaemonium Yes so true! I hate when there are so few characters and you can't bring them all along. In NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer this was particularly egregious. You could only bring 3 people with you, and there were only four potential people to bring!
I never played NWN2. It kinda fell into the twilight years when I stopped playing games very much. It always bothered me in PS:T, though. I used to use Grace's Brothel as my party camp: Vhailor and Ignus, livin' it up in style.
It's just an example, doesn't need to be exactly like this. So, it's a good idea?
seems pretty reasonable, i vote yes except an 8 character party being a bit too much in terms of the amount of orders you have to give out, 6 is a lot already.
edit: there's also a rule table on number of henchmen depending on CHA in the books, but that's probably not so relevant to this
Orders? Naw, I but everyone (but me) on a "user made" (something like the eseries or the yseries) script... I do hate to have to tell each and every character what to do! Using custom scripts, most of their actions may be scripted. I mean, you're not supposed to play 6 characters at once right? Even in D&D, you play one, and your friends play the others... That IS the reason of BG scripts I think!
Comments
Actually, I would really want this too... I've played so many time BG1 and I never liked the way that you "need" to throw someone out before accepting another (sometime just temporarely)... But, not too much also, I mean, there's still a limit to anything!
I'd have to say 9 characters top... So, 8 NPC and you (mister or miss hero) Why? Because it'd be fun, that's why! You don't want it, just don't use it! And for the UI support... Why not just do a character scroll bar?
With a party of 9 characters... A butt kicking party, to say the least!
I would be happy if only somewhere in the options would sth like "Amount of party members limited to player character charisma" even if enabling this feature would make the game unstable and unbalanced (but playable). There of course should be some warning for not experienced players what problems would provide enabling this feature. But the dream would come true - a lot of party interaction!
Well, that's my opinion anyway...
there are no compelling (practical) arguments against these two options in either case. (aside from coding constraints)
just my $.02
let us who've played a million times have some fun, and you stick to your conformities.
remember, including these options won't effect those who wish not to partake, so in complaining about "combat balance" you're not contributing anything worthwhile. (imagine that; the same people complaining are those not contributing)
frankly your protest is bothersome to those with an open mind and imagination.
There are many veteran Baldur's Gate players within the forums who will disagree with you, instead of being arrogant and knowing you're answer is the right answer, understand other will feel inclined to disagree with you.
I personally think such a change is unnecessary and impractical.
If people wish to play with a mob of characters or remove the level cap, let them do so through a mod.
Don't ruin the experience for everyone else.
Enough said
As mentioned in first post, it seems illogically in order to rescue Dynahair that I must kick a good party member? Ofcause I should be able to let her join for a short while to escort her safely.
Please recognise that expanding the party size cannot be done through mods - Due to the nature of the Infinity Engine, it just can't be done. Some amount of work would be required from the dev team to make it happen.
Having said that, whether an 8-character party is enabled for your game or not, is another matter. I think you can both agree that it would be a good thing to unlock, even if not everyone uses it?
L.
I don't agree with introducing more npc slots, but having it as optional seems to satisfy everyone.
Personally, I think it dilutes the game and takes away from the classic 6 'party' composition element that has always been present in Baldur's Gate titles.
With a party consisting of 6 members, I breeze through the game with very little trouble.
Imagine me with 8? heck, seeing as everyone wants more npc slots..make it 10
That wouldn't be unstable would it?
Although I've had BG for years, I always felt that the "classic" 6-member party was very artificial. See my post on the previous page about a computerised version of D&D not being balanced because some classes have more functions in a pen and paper session than they could ever hava massive here. BG is mainly about combat, so strength 18 is advantage. Charisma 18? Not so much.
Plus, I can always see someone doing a mod of an individual scenario to lead 300 Spartans into the Valley of Death and try to survive!
L.
Of course the Developers have to follow contractual agreements... but STILL
I feel like Boo (and Minsk is a useful addition to Boo) is a must, I love Aerie & HaerDalis. I can't abandon Jaheira since she woke up with me in Irenicus dungeon (that would be rude). Same goes for Imoen. Leaves me with room for only one free party member =/ (and Jan has such funny stories...!)
Edit: I recall finding an item in the Shadows over Soubar mod that did something like this with Cespenar, so that you could summon and interact with him anywhere in the game. He would even follow you around between levels once summoned.
As far as what the game can graphically handle, I once used cheats to spawn an army of 2,400 knights of order near Valygar's cabin in BG2 so that I could fight them with my party of 6, since I was feeling particularly annoyed with paladins at the time (and wanted to kill some) due to their racist treatment of Viconia. The game did lag a bit, and it took 7 hours of real time to finish that battle, but I did eventually win. For that matter, with SCS installed you can encounter an army of about 100 drow in Ust Natha, which if they get caught in a bottleneck can all co-exist in the level at the same time. The point being, that having a party of 50 or less added into a given level probably wouldn't be too much for the game to handle since it can handle many times that in terms of opponents.
Personally, I usually play with a party of 2-4 NPCs, but would like the option of having more. It never made sense to me that I was forced to maroon someone in Spellhold if I wanted to rescue Imoen, so whenever I had a party of 6 I usualy just left Imoen there after 'rescuing' her since I didn't want to upset my party dynamics. Having the option to not have to do that would be great!
An 8 characters team is all I ask for. While it might be useful on occasion, this doesn't really help us.
What we want is to carry more characters for the entirety of the game.
Battles (let alone boss battles) are just a small part of it.
Personally, I consider the strategic advantage gained in battles as a necessary evil, at best.
3-6 charisma: 2 persons.
7-9 charisma: 3 persons.
10-13 charisma: 4 persons
14-17 charisma: 5 persons
18-19 charisma: 6 persons
20+ charisma: 7 persons
It's just an example, doesn't need to be exactly like this. So, it's a good idea?
3-6 charisma: 5 persons.
7-9 charisma: 6 persons.
10-13 charisma: 7 persons
14-17 charisma: 8 persons
18-19 charisma: 9 persons
20+ charisma: 10 persons
So with 3-6 you get a total of six, which was the games original minimum. Anything over 6 CHA and you can have more companions, all the way up a total of 11 people in the party including PC.
That way I wont think of a million different useful possibilities and character combinations.
except an 8 character party being a bit too much in terms of the amount of orders you have to give out, 6 is a lot already.
edit: there's also a rule table on number of henchmen depending on CHA in the books, but that's probably not so relevant to this