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JaggedJagged Member, Array Posts: 102
Is the swash->mage a good combo? And what is the best level to dual? I'm just planning on putting points into open locks and find traps.


  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,772
    It's an excellent combo in terms of power-gaming.

    If you aren't going to for a whole lot of thieving abilities, just Open Locks and Find Traps, I would dual-class at Swashbuckler Level 6. You will just be able to hit Mage Level 9, which is actually BG1's experience cap even for pure mages. You *can* go up to Swashbuckler Level 7 and just barely hit Mage Level 8 as well, if you wish, but there is no huge advantage to going all the way to Level 7.

  • FrostyFrosty Member Posts: 190
    If your just going to play BG1 the L7 is best but if your planning on taking it threw BG2 thin wait till L10 or 15 to take advantage of the +1 THAC0 and damage every 5 levels. at start put all you point in open locks that way you can get the star sapphire from up stairs of the candle keep in 1000gp will let you buy any equipment you could ever want.

  • JaggedJagged Member Posts: 102
    I didn't realize I could get to 9 if I dual at 6. That's what I'm going to do then. The small bonuses don't seem worth it to take it to level 10 or 15. A couple extra thaco and ac won't do a mage too much good in my opinion.


  • SidemiSidemi Member Posts: 70
    It's great build but ask yourself. What do you want to do? Spellcasting + lockpick/find traps? Do you want to be a melee class? If so, I'd probably level to 15 (1 100 000XP) and then dual. +3AC and +3 bonus to damage and hit sounds nice. Swashbuckler is basically fighter/thief and it would be shame not to use his "full potential".

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,656
    I would point out, that mages have the Knock Spell to open locks. So really, you could switch to mage as soon as you max out Find Traps. Invisibility subs in for the stealth skills. And mages would usually have better things to do than Detect Illusion...

    So if all you wanted was the thief skills that can't be replaced by magic, you could get by just taking Find Traps. Nobody does that as well as a Thief.

    And you can have another thief around to open locks and deal with traps while you finish getting your Swashbuckler/Mage setup however you want.

    Swashbuckler is a great choice for several builds. Swashbuckler is already like a cross between Fighter and Thief, so you're almost packing in three classes into the space of two which is nice. And mages are extremely squishy without serious buffs so sending them in to backstab isn't always the best idea. Consider that thieves doing that usually go in unsupported. So you're getting basicly a watered down fighter with thief skills and using it as the framework to hang phenomenal cosmic power on.

    If you want to max out open locks and find traps, which is fine and a good choice if you don't want to memorize spells every locked door or chest, then max out Open Locks first. Dump all your starting points into it and you will be able to open most and quite possibly all of the locks you'll encounter in the early game. There also aren't many traps early in the game if you don't go to the mine with a quickness. So you have some time to build up your skill there. Or as I said earlier, you can have more than one thief. One can work on locks (your guy) and the other can work on Traps. And while you work to get your thief skills back after dual classing he can be covering your back. Then either fire him or dual class him when you're good to go with your main character.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    It's a good dual-class combo, If you're going to do it, I would stay as a Thief all through BGEE and dual at level 10 (or is it 11?) in BG2 to capitalize on the AC bonus and +1 To hit/damage bonus (handy for a bow). I wouldn't do this myself, though, as find waiting that long to dual class extremely tedious and as a dual-class you would miss out on the thief HLAs.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,678
    Dual class is a feature best to be left for BG2 with some exceptions, like dual shar-teel to a thief by need, or dual a fighter at lvl 2 to another class for some cheese results (as being able to pursuit a 5 proficient slots with clerics and thiefs).

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,772
    Guys, it's pretty clear that he simply wants a Mage with Open Locks and Find Traps, with a few extra equipment options. And since he doesn't care about backstabbing either, may as well go Swashbuckler for those levels. I don't think he wants to create some inane power build for BGII. =P

  • JaggedJagged Member Posts: 102
    You pretty much nailed it Quartz. My last game was a F/T and he dominated with the thief skills. This time I'm looking to focus on the arcane and with traps and locks covered I won't need a dedicated thief.

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    edited April 2013

    And, you can do fun stuff like specialize in single-weapon style and katanas. Then in BG2 you can rock Dakkon's Zerth Blade for extra spells and a -4 AC bonus. Which ain't nuthin'.

    That is exactly what I plan to do with my Swashbuckler/Mage build. Except I'm dualling at level 10.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,656
    There isn't exactly a paucity of spell slingers, so having a mage that can use some of the stranger gear, like the Dakkon Zerth Blade that @subtledoctor mentioned, is a good thing. There are only so many awesome staves and such to go around. So being able to use the mage gear you need non-mage ability for is a good thing.

  • lamaroslamaros Member Posts: 139
    For those that do go Swashbuckler -> Mage what proficiencies do you pick up? If you go early you'll only get three to use, so you can't take advantage of both of the Swashbuckler's abilities (getting three in 2WS, or Specializing in a weapon).

    Specialising in single-weapon style and katana's does have an appeal, though then you give up the chance of picking up something like 2WS or Short Bows, or specializing in a weapon.

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    At level 6, you will have 3 * to distribute into abilities + 2 * from mage , but they won't compliment each other as there's no * after you get your thief levels back.
    I'd go 2* katana (as a thief, you can afford the katana in Candlekeep) at start.
    Then, use a buckler for the first few levels.
    Alfterwards, when you get your next pip...either single weapon or sword+shield (not sure thieves can do that atm...but you can use a buckler with that katana). two-weapons is a pretty long stretch to get it actually working.

    BTW - as you probably know, there's a magical katana, that will give you additional spell slots in BG2, therefore the katana proficiency.

  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262

    It's a good dual-class combo, If you're going to do it, I would stay as a Thief all through BGEE and dual at level 10 (or is it 11?) in BG2 to capitalize on the AC bonus and +1 To hit/damage bonus (handy for a bow). I wouldn't do this myself, though, as find waiting that long to dual class extremely tedious and as a dual-class you would miss out on the thief HLAs.

    People go to 11 for the improvement to traps. If you don't care about traps and have put no points in Set Trap, then 10.

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    edited September 2013
    I have a Swashbuckler->Mage, and I dualed at 10 to get the THAC0, damage, and AC bonuses, and put 2* in Katana, 1* in 1-handed, and 1* in Short Bows. The *s from the Mage class doesn't really matter. I put the first one in Daggers.

    I just realized that I've posted in this thread before already.

  • DeathKnightDeathKnight Member Posts: 93
    edited December 2013
    I recently started a Swashbuckler and plan to dual to mage. But in the original 2. EEs left me with very bitter and disappointing taste. Best level for dual would be 15. You can utilize well all thief abilities with approximately 110-120 points to each and every one of them. You also gain for 3d time the kit bonuses that apply at 5 levels gain. And unlike other kits, this one does not require +1 level of the one that the kit bonuses apply at, like the Kensai which needs 13 level to gain the bonuses of 12 levels progression. Plus, you can still hit 28 mage and have the maximum possible number of spell slots available. Sweet deal.

    The only real downsides are HPs. Thief mage ends up with way fewer life points than a fighter mage. Also, you cannot learn "Use any item" if you plan to dual, which means severely restricted apparatus. On the bright side, making a swashbuckler mage is like making a fighter mage thief and better, simply without backstabbing (but important/noteworthy enemies anyways are immune to backstab), and the fully upgraded dual wield combined with the two points proficiency makes you dangerous and moving. The best quality of this combo, though, is that 2 lacks an able thief that can progress in skills, and a mage variety class is always suitable and much desired (mostly because of power, cheese, and don't having to relearn all spells anew with each and every new playthrough). If you make a swashbuckler mage and a cleric ranger, in only two characters, you essentially own all of the game's classes with most of their abilities (well, the main, mainstream, most powerful and most used ones, that is).

  • RealReal Member Posts: 67
    Dualing at level 15? That seems... like a very time to wait for before your character gets their levels back again. If you're playing solo or a small party, that might be alright, but in a full party, I imagine your character will be somewhat-gimped for a good portion of the game. With this in mind, Earlier dualing at level 10 might be better. The extra +1 thac0, damage and armor class really aren't worth much to a mage who will be casting stone skin etc for defense and offensive spells rather than autoattacking.

    As someone has already mentioned, mages can already cast invisibility on self and knock to open locks. They even have certain spells that function as a trap (e.g., delayed fireball, skull trap), although the thieves' trap are much more powerful (when used cheesily). I personally think that if you have a mage in a party, you reaallly do not need a thief. So a Swash->Mage is not all that more useful than a mage kit or sorcerer.

    Btw DeathKnight, I'm not sure about the rules regarding necroing, but the thread has been nearly 8 months old since its first post and it's been three months ago since its last post. You may want to start a new topic instead.

  • SikorskySikorsky Member Posts: 311
    I dug a pretty old topic......
    Since we have SoD and 500.000exp cap, what do you think about dual mention in topic. We can now for example dual at 10th in the end of BG:EE and start SoD with level 1 mage. To unlock Swashbuckler we will need 374.000exp, I think its possible to achive and have fun with sb10/mage11 maybe in 40% of SoD. But if we thinking about export to BGII, wouldn't it be better to dual swash at 12th (1 extra trap/day, -1 Thac0, 1 Proficiency, 50 skill points). We wont unlock the first class in SoD, we will reach mage 7th level. It will make SoD a bit toughter but in BGII we will need only 1.065.000exp to unlock the SB and still be able to go to level 39th with mage.

  • CvijetaCvijeta Member Posts: 301
    I think it's nice combo. Just put 100 in both disarm traps and open lock, THEN dual.

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