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F/M/T Base Hit Points at Level 1???

begolf00begolf00 Member Posts: 152
I'm Starting a new character. My race is Elf and I'm using a F/M/T and my base hit points keeps coming out to 9 Shouldn't it be 10 and if you count the constitution bonus 12???? I've tried a few other characters and a Barbarian (Half Orc) rolls 17 if their constitution is 19 which makes sense to me (1d12) + their constitution bonus of 5. If I put the constitution to 18 on a fighter mage thief then I get 10 but no constitution bonus. Anyway just confused any help would be appreciated!!! Thanks

My attributes are as follows... F/M/T Elf
Strength 18/54
Dexterity 19
Constitution 17
Intelligence 18
Wisdom 9
Charisma 18

I've tried finding other topics on this but nothing really matched what I was looking at.

Comments

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 312
    hey it's

    fighter 1d10 / 3 = 3hp
    thief 1d6 / 3 = 2hp
    mage 1d4 / 3 = 1hp

    your hit dice bonus from con is +3 so you get 9 hp

  • begolf00begolf00 Member Posts: 152
    edited June 2017
    I see... I wasn't rounding and was getting 9.6666667 when I added up everything. Thanks Myrag:)!! So every one should be rounded 1st then added up and then add the constitution bonus.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,030
    From memory that system works with all the double multi-classes, but doesn't fully predict the triple ones. So for instance a FMT can reach levels 667 in BG1 using the standard XP cap of 161k. Assuming you're getting max HPs you would expect those to get to:
    fighter 60 / 3 = 20
    mage 24 / 3 = 8
    thief 42 / 3 = 14
    con 19 levels * 3 / 3 = 19
    Total expected = 61, but total actually obtained is 57.

    I think that's an error with the way the triple classes were set up by the way, as opposed to the above system being incorrect about what is expected under D&D rules. I think what's happened is that rather than the classes being looked at individually for triple classes the HP values are being aggregated by level. Thus for the FMT the game says that 6 HPs are due per level with only additions made for levels higher than general. Thus for level 667 HPs due are 6*6 = 36 + 2 for thief level 7 + 19 for constitution.

  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    Grond0 said:

    I think that's an error with the way the triple classes were set up by the way, as opposed to the above system being incorrect about what is expected under D&D rules. I think what's happened is that rather than the classes being looked at individually for triple classes the HP values are being aggregated by level. Thus for the FMT the game says that 6 HPs are due per level with only additions made for levels higher than general. Thus for level 667 HPs due are 6*6 = 36 + 2 for thief level 7 + 19 for constitution.

    Your math is actually oversimplified Ground. That's why your number is higher.

    Fighter (10/3) x 6 = 18 (It rounds down on partials as I recall.)
    Thief (6/3) x 7 = 14
    Mage (4/3) x 6 = 6 (same rounding down issues)
    Con 3 x 6 +1* = 19
    Total value = 57

    *I believe it divides the con bonus between the three classes which would basically +1 hp/level to each individual class level but I could be wrong.

    With this math you see it actually adds up correctly because the division at each level and the nature of always rounding down with no carry over would mean that as you stack on each level your maximum possible is actually slightly lower for 2 of your 3 classes in this combination (by 1hp each per level).

    If the con is divided between the classes like I think I remember it being. It also means that you have diminished returns on higher con than a +3 bonus. this is something that perhaps the more hardcore multiclassers than myself could possibly confirm or deny since I don't play them as much to be certain on that point.

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    StummvonBordwehr
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,030
    edited June 2017
    @fateless my memory of playing P&P in the distant past was that we did record underlying HPs and recalculate fractions at each level. However, I've looked in the Players Handbook and agree that suggests fractions are permanently dropped at each level - so the game is correctly modelling that (and my brother the DM was obviously allowing a generous house rule B)).

    For constitution bonuses the game allocates the total bonus equally between levels. As with base HPs any fractions are rounded down, but unlike with base HPs that calculation is not done separately for each level. Instead, the total bonus for all levels to date is calculated and then applied (with any fraction being dropped). Thus a FMT with level 1/1/1 and constitution 18 has a constitution bonus of 4 as part of their original HPs. When the thief gets a level the total bonus will increase by 4/3 - but the fraction is dropped so the total bonus rises to 5. When the fighter gets a level the total bonus rises to 6, but when the mage gets a level the bonus rises to 8 as there is now no fraction to drop. This behavior explains the oddity that in a triple class you tend to get more HPs than expected for mage levels.

    @subtledoctor the reason why the expected HPs under Core rules is so close to maximum HPs is there is another HP rule not referred to above. Fractions are dropped for values above 1, but any values below 1 are treated as 1. Thus for a FMT it doesn't matter what the die roll is for a mage level, the result will always be 1 (ignoring constitution bonuses). For a thief the result will be 1 83% of the time, with a result of 2 only on a die roll of 6. For a fighter the result will be 1 50% of the time, 2 30% of the time and 3 20% of the time.

    Post edited by Grond0 on
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    I thought I remembered something off about the constitution modifier when leveling. I just couldn't remember what it was or if I was imagining it or thinking of another game.

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 312
    edited June 2017
    I was also playing with numbers and if we would consider that multiclass gets maximum only +2HP/3 bonus for non fighter levels then classical rounding also answers above considerations

    image

    CON HP and HD HP are divisions of HD and CON bonuses by 3

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,030
    edited June 2017
    Myrag said:

    if we would consider that multiclass gets maximum only +2HP/3 bonus for non fighter levels

    I agree there would have been an argument for limiting the constitution bonus for multiclass non-fighter classes - but that wasn't done (either in P&P or BG) :p.

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