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Should priests and druids get spell level 8 and 9 spells?

bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
I think priests should get stronger spells like mages. Perhaps in order to acquire them, priests/druids must perform certain quests/rituals to gain the favors of their gods.
  1. Should priests and druids get spell level 8 and 9 spells?112 votes
    1. Yes
      28.57%
    2. No
      71.43%

Comments

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    There really isn't any wiggle room to give Priests and Druids level 8 and 9 spells.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited September 2012
    I'd be the first to advocate more for spells, but I'd rather see them flesh out the number of spells at other levels for these characters.
    Debaserlolien
  • No, only because I'm for the core rules. But idk TBH. One thing that's interesting about the cleric or druid is that they also get some spells before the mage does, notables including hold person, animate dead, the symbols, and gate. They also get a lot more spells per day than mage.

    Consider end of ToB.

    @28+, Mage, 5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/4
    @39+, Cleric, 9/9/9/9/9/8/7 (excluding bonus spells from Wisdom)
    @25+, Druid, 9/9/9/9/9/7/7 (excluding bonus spells from Wisdom)
    @38+, Bard, 5/5/5/5/5
    @20+, Paladin, 3/3/3/3
    @16+, Ranger, 3/3/3
    NightfallRobBrudeSCARY_WIZARDQuartz
  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036

    I'd rather see the Icewind Dale priest spells added. That'd make me a happy panda.

    Couldn't agree more. Icewind Dale has a ton of extra priest and druid spells that make these classes way more fun to play. Of course these spells would require new animations and icons to fit the BG1 style of graphics, so it'd not be trivial to put them in.

    MoomintrollDragonspear
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    People complain that priests and druids are underpowered compared to mages. There's nothing quite like a single use of Nature's Beauty to permanently disable any AI mage with no save or spell-protection short of pure magic resistance. No mage spell can do that, ninth level or no.
    elminsterBrudejolly_bb
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Absolutely, some level 11 spells for clerics wouldnt hurt.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    It's AD&D. There are no such thing as level 8 and level 9 divine spells to add anyway.

    If BG2 ran off 3rd Ed rules, well, then we wouldn't need for this discussion in the first place because there'd already be level 8 and 9 divine spells.
    DragonspearPhyraxQuartz
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited September 2012

    It's AD&D. There are no such thing as level 8 and level 9 divine spells to add anyway.

    If BG2 ran off 3rd Ed rules, well, then we wouldn't need for this discussion in the first place because there'd already be level 8 and 9 divine spells.

    Well, if the game was working solely with 2nd edition rules there would be no sorcerer :)

    That said I still agree with not adding any level 8 or 9 cleric/druid spells.
  • pablo200783pablo200783 Member Posts: 96
    Priests and drudis no need more spells level 6 and 7 give good spell, some spells may add and tweak.
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    Priests and druids are granted their 6th and 7th level spells directly from their deities. Conceivably, only deities have access to 8th and 9th level divine spells. For deities to grant their followers these "secret" spells would mean to place them on the deity's own level, which would only serve to undermine the role of deities as well as the roles of their priesthoods and followers.

    The reason mages gain access to 8th and 9th levels spells is because, at these levels, they have learned how to tap into the "stuff" of the cosmos/divine and manipulate it to their own ends. No one grants them these spells--they learn how to do it on their own. So, in a sense, they are tapping into god-like power as mortals. The risks and demands of the wizardly path guarantee that few wizards actually live long enough (or even have the intellect) to attain the ability to cast these spells. But that is great reward for their long hours of esoteric study and research as well as the perils of adventuring.
  • SharnSharn Member Posts: 188
    Sure, spread out the power of the spells over the 2 new levels, since 7th level priests spells are on the same power level as 9th level mage spells. Then reduce the number of spells priests get per level to be equal to a mage, take away bonus spells from high wisdom, and restrict the ability to cast high level spells based on the priests wisdom score and you can have 8th and 9th level spells.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Like put the level 7 spell confusion for priests down to level 4. I don't know who thought it made sense to have such a weak spell there, but it should be corrected. In its place put something wicked cool :)
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Mortianna said:

    Priests and druids are granted their 6th and 7th level spells directly from their deities. Conceivably, only deities have access to 8th and 9th level divine spells. For deities to grant their followers these "secret" spells would mean to place them on the deity's own level, which would only serve to undermine the role of deities as well as the roles of their priesthoods and followers.

    The reason mages gain access to 8th and 9th levels spells is because, at these levels, they have learned how to tap into the "stuff" of the cosmos/divine and manipulate it to their own ends. No one grants them these spells--they learn how to do it on their own. So, in a sense, they are tapping into god-like power as mortals. The risks and demands of the wizardly path guarantee that few wizards actually live long enough (or even have the intellect) to attain the ability to cast these spells. But that is great reward for their long hours of esoteric study and research as well as the perils of adventuring.

    These actually existed in 2nd edition and were called Quest Spells. The cleric would lose all spells of the highest level they could cast as long as the quest spell was in memory. Gaining a quest spell also required a ritual that could only be performed in a consecrated temple. Those were really powerful spells.
    Mortianna
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,643
    Hell I play BG Vanilla still on occasion. I'll be happy with 5th level clerical spells in BG: EE.
    Mortianna
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    @mlnevese I had forgotten about the Quest spells in 2E.
    mlnevese
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    @Mortianna I played with a pure cleric for years and had a Quest spell once, no way I could forget them :)
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    @mlnevese No doubt. Implementing something like that for a CRPG would be difficult to do well.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited September 2012
    @Mortianna You're right. Not all of the spells would translate well in a computer game besides, considering the way the Infinity Engine works, I don't think you could remove all slots of the higher level spells while you have a quest spell memorized. The next engine won't be 2nd Edition so we won't ever have the pleasure to cast a quest spell in a game :)
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    @mlnevese Truly, a tragedy. I've never been a big fan of the 3rd and 4th editions. I'll probably just stay cloistered amongst the 1st and 2nd editions, waiting for fellow anachronistic eccentrics to join me in my movement to bring back Gygax into (A)D&D.
    mlnevese
  • junk11junk11 Member Posts: 117
    There is actually a way to implement quest spell, by deleting all high lvl spells(not slots) then add quest spell as abilities. But the real problem is how to code in the spell itself. Not every spell is easy to code...
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    But does the Infinity Engine allows this? Wouldn't it require a 2da change?
  • junk11junk11 Member Posts: 117
    Remember how u can forget ur wizard spell and re-learn from scroll for extra exp? And if I remember rite, spell revision has a book for npc to alter their spell into new ones. It's not that hard to implement or remove spell

    I did alter monk's flurry of blows in sword and fist mod myself into bg2, the problem is really how to code in the spell effect
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    As @sandmanCCL said, it's based off 2e AD&D. There simply are no higher level spells for priests by the ruleset.
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    I believe you can give bards level 7,8 and 9 spell access. It's just a matter of altering a simple text doc...now I'm curious about priests...I doubt it but i'm going to see if it's possible. You roils still have to create spells though
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    Nope, can't do it easily. Ask ascension64
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