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*SPOILER* Is the Selûne and Shar story revealed by Rasaad true?

lnstructor_lnstructor_ Member Posts: 76
It sure seems logical as one moon has two shapes determined by the light reflected by it.

But was it true or a mere manipulation?

Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,160
    Good question. The game seems to imply that it was all manipulation, due to the source of the info, but I also don't know the actual D&D lore for it.

    lnstructor_
  • ElendarElendar Member Posts: 831
    Nope, its as fictional as the rest of the Forgotten Realms. :P

    lnstructor_tbone1
  • lnstructor_lnstructor_ Member Posts: 76
    Elendar said:

    Nope, its as fictional as the rest of the Forgotten Realms. :P

    The moonlanding was also fake! /sarcasm

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    It's probably not true. But it does make sense. Similar things have happened before - for example Tymora and Beshaba were split from the goddess Tyche, but cults still worshipped them together as Tyche after her death/split.

    I believe it is deliberately left without a definite answer in the lore. Against the theory is that neither Selune or Shar accepts followers of the heresy after death, condemning them as False believers (and dooming them to eternal punishment in the afterlife). However, in favour of the theory is that clerics of the heresy still receive divine magic from somewhere, which means that either they are on to something or there is another power meddling in their business.

    I personally choose to believe there is something to it, it makes them both more interesting. But as I said initially, it wouldn't surprise me at all if official lore at some point declared the whole thing bunk and untrue just because they don't like leaving things open to interpretation.

    lnstructor_
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    edited October 2017
    If I recall the official lore, then no, Shar and Selûne are not one godess. They are twin sisters who where created from the primordial essence of the universe, very distinctly two seperate entities.

    PS: Though just to be clear, the BG games do like to take some liberties with the lore.

    Post edited by Buttercheese on
    lnstructor_ThacoBell
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    It's heresy, consult your god emperor and proceed accordingly.

    Buttercheesescriver
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    Pantalion said:

    It's heresy, consult your god emperor and proceed accordingly.

    *BLAM*

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415

    If I recall the official lore, then no, Shar and Selûne are not one godess. They are twin sisters who where created from the primordial essence of the universe, very distinctly two seperate entities.

    PS: Though just to be clear, the BG games do like to take some liberties with the lore.

    And the lore is subject to change... Example: Lathander and Amaunator.

  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    edited October 2017
    Well, but, all the EE content takes extra care to be more official lore-confirming (current lore, that is) than the original games, so it is very safe to assume that the bit about Shar and Selûne was indeed just balderdash. I mean, the game even retroactively adresses why Edwin isn't bald (spoiler: He lost his shaving equipment).

    Example: Lathander and Amaunator.

    Also, I am not entirely sure what part you are refering to here. If you meant that they are actually the same person, wasn't that a 4th edition redcon, ergo not written yet by the time BG2 came around?

  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,741
    edited November 2017


    Example: Lathander and Amaunator.

    Also, I am not entirely sure what part you are refering to here.
    In the times of Netheril, Amaunator was worshiped as the god of the Sun. But after the fall of Netheril, people lost faith in him as they thought he didn't help in protecting his followers and preventing the catastrophe. Thus, he lost his power and went into oblivion, and Lathander came to be worshipped as the Morninglord in his stead. Some people thought that Lathander was a reincarnation of Amaunator. However, at some time during the Time of Troubles and the Spellplague, Lathander went "missing" and Amaunator was resurrected. It is also remarkable that Lathander again reappeared after the Second Sundering, which confirmed that he and Amaunator were different entities.

    This entire thing is very inconstant. Look at the legacy of the Lords of Death and the Dead, and you'll find Jergal being succeeded by Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal. Then with the death of the trio came Cyric, and then Kelemvor. Much more interesting is the fact that Bane and Bhaal were again resurrected, probably after the Second Sundering. See how utterly variable and volatile all of this is. Similarly, the facts about Selune and Shar may also change (thanks to the interference of otherworldly mortals). What I want to say is that the affairs of gods are really complicated, and it is possible that Selune and Shar may get joined into one and then sunder again.

    [I mean no offense to the reverend goddesses of the Forgotten Realms, but it might be possible that Selune and Shar were conjoined twins, just like Light and Darkness is in reality; and they might have been separated by the Overlord Ao by magical "surge"ry.]

  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    @Rik_Kirtaniya Hypothetical predictions of the future whims of writers are not automatically canon.
    By that logic everything and nothing is canon at any time.

    Since their history is covered in-game in form of a book and the general knowledge that the gods of that world are tangible forces that communicate with their followers a lot, we do know that Selûne and Shar being different individuals is indeed a fact, unless the gods are purposefully lying towards their followers.

    They used to be one being at the beginning of the universe, but where split apart after they created Chauntea and stayed split after.

    History of the Sisters of Light and Darkness
    This was the birth of the world and the heavens. After Lord Ao created Realmspace, there was a period of timeless nothingness, a misty realm of shadows before light and dark were separate entities. Within the dim chaos stalked 13 lords of shadow, the Shadevari - whether their form came from elsewhere or are children of shadow itself, none can say.

    Eventually this primordial essence coalesced into twin beautiful goddesses who where yin and yang to each other; there were so close they thought themselves as one being. The Two-Faced Goddess created the heavenly bodies of the crystal sphere and together infused them with life to form Earthmother, Chauntea. (Although Chauntea has since contracted her essence to encompass only Albeir-Toril, in the beginning she embodied all of the Realmspace.) This new universe was lit by the face of the silver-haired goddess, who called herself Selune, and darkened by the welcoming tresses of the raven-haired goddess, Shar, but no heat or life existed within.

    Chauntea begged for warmth so that she could nurture life and living creatures upon the planets that were her body and limbs, and the two sister Who-Were-One, become divided, as for the first time they were of two minds. Silvery Selune constested with her dark sister over whether or not bring further life to the worlds. During this great conflagration, the gods of war, disease, murder, and death, among others, were created from residues of the Deific battle. At one point during the battle, Selune seized the advantage and reached across time and space to a land of eternal fire. Fighting the pain of the blaze, which burned her sorely, she broke off a fragment of that ever-living flame and ignited one of the heavenly bodies so that it burned in the sky and warmed Chauntea.

    Incensed, Shar redoubled her attack on her injured twin and began to snuff out all light and heat throughout the crystal sphere. Again Selune gave of herself and tore the divine essence of magic from her body, flinging it desperately at her sister in defense of life in the sphere. This essence entered Shar, ripped an equal portion of energy from her, and reformed behind her as the goddess of magic, now known as Mystra, but then as Mystryl. Though Mystryl was composed of both-light and dark magic, she favored her first mother Selune initially, allowing the silver goddess to win an uneasy with her more powerful dark twin. Consumed by bitterness at her defeat, Shar vowed eternal revenge.

    The twin goddesses contested for eons as life struggled into existence on Toril and the other planets under Chauntea's watchful gaze. Shar remained powerful, but bitterly alone, while Selune waxed and waned in power, often drawing strength from her allied daughter and sons and like-minded immigrant deities. Over time, Shar grew strong again, aided by the shadevari who preferred light to blinding light and who stalked the Realms seeking to meld light and dark into shadowy chaos once again. Shar's plot to reform the world after her own devices was undone when Azuth, the High One, formerly the greatest of all mortal spellcasters and now consort to Mystra, (incarnate successor to Mystryl), found a way to imprison the shadevari in a pocket-size crystal located beyond the edges of the world by creating the illusion of a realm of shadows. The Lords of Shadow were drawn to investigate, and before they discovered the trick, Azuth imprisoned the shadevari with the Shadowstar, a key of shadows forged by Gond. The High Lord then hurled the key into the endless reaches of the cosmos allowing life to flourish on in Chauntea's loving hands.

    The few people who believe that "the twofold Goddess" still exist, are nothing but your average gullible sectarist. Selûne and Shar hate each other, so unless some event had them fused back into one again - which people absolutely would have noticed - they are still two seperate entities.

  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,741
    edited November 2017
    @Buttercheese I haven't yet read that history book from the game, but I too agree that the whole Twofold business is nothing but a heresy, a deception on the part of Alorgoth and the Sharrans to beguile the Selunites into following a false faith, and weaken the Sun Soul Order, since deception is one of the prime tenets of the Dark Moon Order. That's why I don't want Rasaad to help rebuild the Twofold Order after the Sharran invasion is repelled, but I don't know how to prevent his doing that.

    Anyways, all I can say is that we can only judge whether something is canon or not if only it has already occurred some time in the past. Unless one is a Diviner, one doesn't know what the future holds for sure, which is why the only thing we can (sadly) do is wait for what the "future whims of writers" would create, and then judge whether we may call it canon or not.

  • lnstructor_lnstructor_ Member Posts: 76
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,741
    edited November 2017

    @Rik_Kirtaniya Why would anyone be a Diviner?

    @lnstructor_ A diviner can do a lot more things than just dispelling illusions and identifying items. Powerful ones can see into the future, if that was your question.

    (I've edited my answer because I think there was some sort of misunderstanding on my part earlier with regard to your question.)

    Post edited by Rik_Kirtaniya on
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