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My thoughts of Nevewinter Nights EE

so i finally caved in a week or two ago and bought Neverwinter Nights EE basically out of boredom, and since it wasnt really that much i bought the deluxe version because apparently it comes with all these goodies, so here is my thoughts on it so far:

first thing i noticed, it looks and feels no different than the original game ( im talking about single player OC ) and one bug i noticed is that when selecting a feat for example and pressing on the "?" it tells you what it does, but at the end of level up and if you press cancel instead of confirm, then you have to do your level up section all over again, except this time when you click on the "?" the upscaled RES is broken and at 1440p i almost need binoculars to read that tiny writing, so far that is the only bug i can think of

next, bloated dire spiders, are absolutely ridiculously dumb, it annoys the urine right out of me when an enemy is "moderate" challenge rating and obliterating me out of existence, in fact the bloated dire spider ( to my loosely filled knowledge) is virtually no different than a regular dire spider, they both have the same to hit, same INSANE poison DC, and HP so what gives? now some people say that you can't rely one the "challenge rating" system of enemies, but that is just hog wash nonsense, why is something that is on purposely implemented into the game that is suppose to help players know what they are up against be something they can't rely on? that makes absolutely no sense, so there be 2 solutions to this problem, A ) make the bloated dire spider A LOT weaker to much up the challenge rating showing, or B ) keep his insane stats the way they are but increase his challenge rating level to something way more appropriate, the bloated dire spiders were the only bad guy in the game that i had to exploit so hard to win, and i HATE using exploits to win a battle, if you make bad guys so strong that the only way to win battles is by exploits, then that is a poorly built enemy

on the other hand, NWN 1 is the ONLY game that i have played out of the BG/IWD/NWN series where trolls didnt live up to their name by being absolute trolls to kill, it is so refreshing that when fighting trolls in NWN there is no need for fire or acid finish upon death, holy crap is that nice, to be honest it doesnt bother me much in BG2 but NWN2 they can be annoying as hell, especially if you arent prepared for them

next, why is this game so penalizing? the more companions you have the less XP you get, this includes summons an such, say what ? lol ? the BG series doesnt penalize you for summons so why here? all this does is just motivate me to do solo runs because i feel that im not rewarded for bringing party members or should i say member, and speaking about companion x1 , i've never been a fan of how NWN did this, where you only bring one companion along, to me, it doesnt really feel like an RPG game at this point, there is no party ( 2 is not a party ) and i always found this to be a super weak point in NWN, and not only that, very little variety in henchmen, no wizards or sorcerers to choose from, just a bunch of fighter types, a bard, a thief and maybe a cleric? and if your main fighter is struggling against baddies, how could their mediocre henchmen possibly be any more useful

and while im on the subject, the fact that you have so little control on what your hencemen do is a little frustrating, you can physically select and move them to more strategic spots, so if holmes is using a missile weapon and going toe to toe melee with that spider, he is going to get eaten for lunch, giving the player less control over henchmen is going in the wrong direction ( at least it's a little better in SoU ) in fact, i find NPC control so clunky and unintuitive that i find it easier to just go solo, why is the game doing this to me? if feels like this game is meant to be played with a party, but them make it as painful as possible to do so, oi

next, what is up with treasure chests have 40 damage reduction, for realz? 40, the big ol' four zero damage reduction, why am i wearing full plate armor when i could be wearing that chest that has the INSANE FORTY damage reduction, hook me up with that chest seriously, it makes absolutely zero practical sense that a chest with perhaps 2 inch walls at best has 40 DR when a foot thick steel door has 8 ( friggin lol ) my only assumption is, is that they did this to make you want to bring a thief along, but the problem is, you are only getting ONE henchman ( they're not even party members or companions, just some randoms basically of the street it feels like) and perhaps you don't always want to bring tomi along, so this 40 DR chest silliness is exactly that ( keep those scythes handy )

the pacing, oh man do i hate the pacing, and this is what was the final cabosh for me basically, the pacing is so whacky and slow and it just feels like im a slug dragging my ass through molasses, especially those first few levels where you have 1 attack per round, holy crap do battles take forever, and the best part is, no one can hit each other and we are all attack once per round, but everyone has bagillions of HP it feels, and some battles just take way too long, i never get the sense of suspense when these shenanigans are going on, i just roll my eyes and boringly wait for this pointlessly drawn out battle to end, one prime example of this was near the end of chapter 1 i was at helm's hold and there was a suit of animated armor that had OUTRAGEOUS AC , im talking more outrageous than mega rayquaza being adamant with max IVs and EVs in attack using outrage, so here we were, animated chap versus my apparent schmuck just going back and forth to see who could score more critical hits first, and wow is the RNG bad, that animated goober was rolling natural 20s every 2nd or 3rd attack WAY TOO OFTEN, and it was annoying to the extreme where my guy got a natural 20 once every hailey's comet pass over, and this guy was popping them out like it was nothing, erg bad times

actually there was another that makes my NWN playing experience all the more bleh, i hate full 3d games like this where you have to maneuver around the map, one problem that NWN has is that EVERYTHING looks the same, everything is so bland looking i lose my bearings so quickly and all the time, that im always going the wrong way getting lost, all these years when i saw the compass on the interface i thought it was just there for the lulz, but now i realize that it's there because even the original devs knew that it would be hard getting bearings, and i had to use that compass so much to find where i was going, and it was just frustrating

so with this all being said i made it to level 12 or 13 and Luskan the city and i just couldn't play anymore, i was forcing myself to play more play more because of the old antage "it will eventually get better" but the more i played NWN it just made me want to play NWN 2 more, and thats the thing i dont understand, NWN 2 basically does everything absolutely better than NWN in everyway ( at least from a single player experience, also not including the toolset) so im baffled as to why people like this game more, even NWN 2 had some pacing problems so i find it hard to play the NWN 2 OC ( and MotB i just keep getting lost ) but it's SoZ that saves me, SoZ is the only NWN game i find that actually brings the RPG element back to the series, your skills are majorly used in that game, and the pacing is so much better in my opinion, thats why if they ever made an EE of NWN 2 i would be very interested

so with that being said, what makes NWN so great? a couple of years ago i played through the entire series ( well the OC, SoU and HotU ) and i found the experience to be bland, hard to look at and stretched out a bit, is it the multiplayer that makes this game amazing? is it the fact that you can make some amazing modules for other player to play? im curious as to what other people think of this game

JuliusBorisovkcwiseFinneousPJKamigoroshiFardragonKenjiMirandelhelmo1977
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Comments

  • MrDamageMrDamage Member Posts: 209
    You’ve certainly pointed out a few of the stark issues it has, and let’s face it there are a lot more I could add. But NWN is still one of my all time favourite gaming experiences, warts and all. And I’ve played the others you’ve mentioned too.
    Put it down to taste I guess is all I can say.

    Korevas17sarevok57
  • birdman076birdman076 Member Posts: 27
    I played through the original OC and all expansions before going online to the multiplayer world and yes it was very daunting to get through the whole thing however the story line of all things strung me along as well as the "whats the next cool item around the corner" carrot always dangling.

    That all changed with going multiplayer. My first server was a POA originally hosted by AW and it was an interesting experience. Had a DM "confront" me for exploiting the game (I was running around finding "easter eggs" and gathering them up, they didn't like the fact that I kept track of where they were and would hit them on a server restart). After a bit of a back and forth the guy just up and booted me. At this point I could have easily said "Screw the multiplayer" and call it a day but there was other POA servers so I decided to try them. I really liked the concept of Path of Ascension, it has a nice story arc that isn't years long lol. It allowed completion and replayability with other classes. It was a small enough world to allow interaction, social, pvp, etc. But it was also big enough to where you didn't run into people if you didn't want to. I played POA on that server for the next 3 years. We had capped the first server early on (then cap was 25) and made a second server to accomodate members. After 3 years we branched out and hosted a world of Rhun module and myself and 10 or so others fell in love with it and moved exclusively to that server (still hosted by the same group).

    The biggest issue back in the day were when people would login and start crying in shout to the whole server about how they didn't like your iteration of the world, how this group does it better, how you need to change this and that. And of course the occasional griefers but they were funny at best.

    My NWN online experience has been the best by far, hands down. I've played tons of games online with large and small communities and not one has come close to NWN.

    If you haven't experiences the online play of NWN I would highly suggest giving it a try.

    NeverwinterWightsaarionnsarevok57
  • dafenadafena Member Posts: 74
    The only worthy thing of NWN is the toolset and the chance to create your own roleplaying world, after all that's why it exist.

    I mean, you'll find more fun playing some custom module than the Bioware campaings. They wont touch them, so don't expect to find a rebalance at the release date. What you'll find within this new version is a new optimized unhardcoded toolset so you can build better things.

    I recommend to search the vault for something that appeals you.

    sarevok57
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    Truth be told I haven't even read half of the OP's post. Nevertheless, I felt the need to cast my vote on a particular point.

    Sign me up for some serious 40 damage reduction chest armor! Like, it could be a unique pirate treasure in some upcoming Premium EE Modules! After all, everyone likes some booty!



    That is all.

    sarevok57Zwerkules
  • JFKJFK Member Posts: 213
    Of course, it must be said that what you are playing now is not the finished product. Right? This is beta. You are playing a beta version.

    -JFK

    Andarian
  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 631
    NWN is rubbish. The storyline is bad, the 3D graphics are woefully unimaginative and repetitive, and the story is full of bad writing. Also, it's full of glaring omissions. For instance, suppose you want to play a rogue. Nice idea, eh? Well, turns out that nobody, and I mean nobody, in the Official Campaign carries anything that you can steal.

    Also, some of the writing is based upon some serious railroading ideas. I remember going to a warehouse of some sort in one of the cities. Immediately upon entering, I got a quest trigger telling me about how I had entered the lair of the "Sword Coast Boys" (or something like that, I can't remember too well). I was a bit baffled, because I had never even heard of such guys. Turns out there had been a quest, but I had failed to turn up at the place where the quest started. I only got the last entry which implied I knew what was going on. I didn't.

    Also, each and every quest is a FedEx variant. Go there a bring me this item.

    Also, the amount of times the same characters repeat the same voiced dialogues is just baffling. "Don't worry, young Alhelor, I'm sure everything turns out fine in the end", or something like that, as the (as it turns out) werewolf says in Port Last.

    sarevok57Fardragonhelmo1977
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    Sounds like NWN's not for you.

    fetito666
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,839

    Sounds like NWN's not for you.

    that could be it, although it seems to be one of those games that i play once every 5 years or so, then get my fix, and then let it collect dust again, x amount of years later, blow off the dust give it another try

    BelleSorcierehelmo1977
  • DeleDele Member Posts: 9
    edited December 2017
    kcwise said:

    When NWN is judged based on the OC and the expansions alone it usually doesn't fare as well as when the totality of what the game and toolset can offer is factored in.

    This.

    NWN is a platform for multiplayer servers and singleplayer modules made by the community.

    I dont think they should include the original campaign at all with the game, make it a separate module just like all the others.

    kcwiseAndarian
  • jwwjww Member Posts: 31
    I think it's important to separate NWN, the game, from the original campaign, which is the source of many (but not all) of the problems listed above. Maybe if Beamdog ends up creating a new campaign at some point, they could make that the default selection and move the OC farther down the list, so as not to discourage potential new players? Or perhaps add a warning to the OC that it's not reflective of other available campaigns or modules?

    I've actually played the OC a fair bit (I guess I'm just crazy), but I have concerns about a modern-day player encountering that as their first experience with NWN:EE and how that will affect the way they feel about the game. Specific issues that leap to mind:

    1. Poor lighting in the peninsula district, which is likely to be the first area you go to given that someone asks you to go there. Starting out with an area that you can barely see during the day, much less at night, just doesn't seem like a good way to show off a new game (Light spell or items can help, but a new player may not know that).

    2. Very large shifts in difficulty between facing hundreds of weak enemies that pose no danger whatsoever, suddenly interrupted by an enemy that's almost impossible for a newbie player unless their build or henchman happens to be designed to counter it, such as the aforementioned bloated dire spiders, or the intellect devourer, which is likely to be the first boss you encounter, but it has mind-affecting spells, intelligence drain, invisibility, fire immunity, and 5 points of physical damage reduction -- good luck facing it with a low-strength build and the few spells that might be available to you at this level (wiz/sorc builds: start level 1 with wiz/sorc and keep your Rod of Frost!). Gulnan and Desther can also be extremely difficult for some builds.

    3. Tedious number of chests and boxes and barrels, and traps, and as Sarevok mentioned, the crazy amount of damage resistance to bash them. (Flame Weapon and Darkfire work great, but not everyone is a mage or cleric.)

    4. Chapter 2 seems to drag on forever. I actually like all the dungeons except Castle Jhareg and forest spirit place, but something about the way the chapter is constructed bothers me.


    Anyway, I typed more than I meant to, but in the days of social media, it would be nice if the OC wasn't the first impression that a new player had, when NWN as a whole is much more promising than that.

    I'd also echo Sarevok's request for an NWN2:EE. I love that game even more than NWN, but there are numerous bugs that need fixing, and it'd be great to have some new campaigns to play.

    BelleSorcieresarevok57Mirandelhelmo1977
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    sarevok57 said:

    Sounds like NWN's not for you.

    that could be it, although it seems to be one of those games that i play once every 5 years or so, then get my fix, and then let it collect dust again, x amount of years later, blow off the dust give it another try
    That's fair. :)

  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I'm just going to echo the general sentiment that a lot of this stuff is OC complaints, and... yeah, the OC is bad. But I quite like the expansions, and some of the premium modules are excellent (Wyvern Crown of Cormyr and Pirates of the Sword Coast in particular).

  • myshaqmyshaq Member Posts: 18
    NWN main campaign is just bad and should be skipped, especially by new players. Sou and hotu are better.

    About NWN2:EE, Beamdog could just take everything that NWN2 did better (full party control, overland map, etc) and bring it back to NWN:EE.

    Savant1974helmo1977
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 907
    I never even finished the OC, I found it boring and hard to relate to so I skipped it and went on to the custom modules and worlds which was the selling point of the game anyway. I know there are people that have never even loaded the OC and clocked far more than 10000 hours into the game.

    I agree with Trent's view on things, leave it as it is and create new things looking forward.

    KenjiZwerkulesSavant1974
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    The thing is, if I want to play with my friends, we play PnP. But, being of an antisocial disposition, the reason I play computer games is to escape from other people. So, so far as I'm concerned, anything multiplayer is to be avoided at all costs.

    So I won't be buying NWNEE until such time as it gains a substantial new single player campaign.

  • KenjiKenji Member Posts: 251
    OP, thank you for not going into a fanboy shock and giving in to the nostalgia factor. As far as unpopular opinion goes, people need to see beyond their nostalgic lenses and ask for more out of this EE.

    sarevok57Savant1974
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    Kenji said:

    OP, thank you for not going into a fanboy shock and giving in to the nostalgia factor. As far as unpopular opinion goes, people need to see beyond their nostalgic lenses and ask for more out of this EE.

    People are asking for a lot and will ask for more, though.

    Kenji
  • KenjiKenji Member Posts: 251
    edited December 2017

    Kenji said:

    OP, thank you for not going into a fanboy shock and giving in to the nostalgia factor. As far as unpopular opinion goes, people need to see beyond their nostalgic lenses and ask for more out of this EE.

    People are asking for a lot and will ask for more, though.
    I agree, but the problem lies with if the people don't ask (communication, or the lack thereof), the devs won't know what the people want. The EE doesn't have to get everything right or fit everything in on release, but getting these enhanced editions done means continuous support from the developers and the community, old and new.

    If people got stuck on nostalgia and never go past that, there will be a lot of missed opportunities to be had.

    sarevok57
  • KenjiKenji Member Posts: 251
    Fardragon said:

    The thing is, if I want to play with my friends, we play PnP. But, being of an antisocial disposition, the reason I play computer games is to escape from other people. So, so far as I'm concerned, anything multiplayer is to be avoided at all costs.

    So I won't be buying NWNEE until such time as it gains a substantial new single player campaign.

    In some of the PW servers offered in NWN is that players are required to be in-character at all times and I found that extremely immersive.

    In PnP sessions, my friends and I sometimes get distracted by memes and inside jokes, and often enough we don't roleplay as our characters through and through.

    There's something about that multiplayer that offers the complete immersion in a D&D experience that I've always wanted. Something that even PnP sessions don't get to accomplish (for my group of friends, anyways). You are not seeing the players behind the characters, afterall, but you are seeing the representation of the character from day 1.

    NeverwinterWightsMrDamagesarevok57
  • dafenadafena Member Posts: 74
    Kenji said:

    OP, thank you for not going into a fanboy shock and giving in to the nostalgia factor. As far as unpopular opinion goes, people need to see beyond their nostalgic lenses and ask for more out of this EE.

    I don't understeand, everyone agrees that the OC sucks :p

    ArtonaKenji
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Nope, my imagination has much better graphics than NWN.

    (Although that isn't saying much, Pong has better graphics thsn NWN).

  • dwinblooddwinblood Member Posts: 38
    I remember in the day when these graphics were not too bad. To really do what the OP wants will require having something NEW that uses new graphics as an Official Campaign. It isn't that feasible to go back and redo all of the old art... or perhaps if it is then the community will step up to that. It greatly depends upon what type of model support and new things Beamdog offers and can support. I could see the community pursuing replacing the tiles and such with newer work but that is not a small task. It's a huge one. Though some tools have come quite a ways since NWN1 days so some things might be faster than we'd think.

    Andarian
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I'm willing to tolerate the horrible graphics in exchange for a new high quality single player campaign.

    fetito666MrDamagemichausarevok57
  • MrDamageMrDamage Member Posts: 209
    Undoutably, the toolset and online aspect of the game is what kept me playing for years and even now! But I must be one of the only ones here that actually didn’t mind the OC. There should be a badge for that lol. Ok, I’ll get my head checked tomorrow.

  • badstrrefbadstrref Member Posts: 124
    edited January 2018
    -

    Post edited by badstrref on
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I would say the multiplayer market is super-saturated.

    I don't think I'm the only person in the world who hates all things multiplayer.

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