Stuck in a Rut: BG1 and BG2 first time evil playthrough. PC Advice needed
Dragonspear
Member Posts: 1,838
So since BGEE won't be shipping until November 30th, I'm going to try to run through the entirety of BG1 and BG2 with a couple parties focusing on NPCs I haven't used before. Here are the 2 parties I currently have in mind.
Disclaimer: I'm playing BG1 and BG2 completely modless for these so that I leave plenty left for myself in BGEE.
Evil Party BG1:
Edwin
Viconia
Korgan
Xzar
Montaron
The last 2 are because I hear they're rather funny to bring along.
Evil Party BG2:
Edwin
Viconia
Kagain
Sarevok (ToB)
What this means is I need to determine what characters to bring along to compliment the parties and also which 2 NPCs to use for SoA. I'm leaning towards Haer'Dalis and the chaotic neutral gnome (or heck maybe just Yoshi -> Imoen). More to the point though, here are some of the characters I've considered.
Elven or Halfling Thief to Assassin (Overlaps with Montaron)
Half Elven Bard -> Blade (Party is already arcane heavy in BG1, plus there is a specific later party I want to try and adding in Haer'dalis just is like 3 strikes)
Elven Wizard Slayer or Kensai (Primarily using Longswords/Bastard Swords/Katanas et al on top of a good ranged fighter in BG1, would allow her to use those, the dwarves to happily use their axes and hammers and then Sarevok to use the 2h weapons)
Half Elven Druid -> Avenger (never played a druid so I doubt I'd make it far. Might save it for more of a neutral playthrough)
Disclaimer: I'm playing BG1 and BG2 completely modless for these so that I leave plenty left for myself in BGEE.
Evil Party BG1:
Edwin
Viconia
Korgan
Xzar
Montaron
The last 2 are because I hear they're rather funny to bring along.
Evil Party BG2:
Edwin
Viconia
Kagain
Sarevok (ToB)
What this means is I need to determine what characters to bring along to compliment the parties and also which 2 NPCs to use for SoA. I'm leaning towards Haer'Dalis and the chaotic neutral gnome (or heck maybe just Yoshi -> Imoen). More to the point though, here are some of the characters I've considered.
Elven or Halfling Thief to Assassin (Overlaps with Montaron)
Half Elven Bard -> Blade (Party is already arcane heavy in BG1, plus there is a specific later party I want to try and adding in Haer'dalis just is like 3 strikes)
Elven Wizard Slayer or Kensai (Primarily using Longswords/Bastard Swords/Katanas et al on top of a good ranged fighter in BG1, would allow her to use those, the dwarves to happily use their axes and hammers and then Sarevok to use the 2h weapons)
Half Elven Druid -> Avenger (never played a druid so I doubt I'd make it far. Might save it for more of a neutral playthrough)
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Comments
Sounds like I have a party of Jan, Haer, Minsc, and Aerie coming up too..... Great now what class to use with them *sigh*
Haer'Dalis is without question the most dangerous NPC in the entire saga. Saying his horrible is one of the most ignorant things I've heard. You can't make a Blade as deadly as he is because of his extra proficiency points in short swords. (You can make one tankier, though.)
One of the strength belts + Tenser's Transformation + Offensive Spin = gg dead enemies. It's stupid the amount of damage he can do. Downright silly.
Throw in time traps once you get HLAs and you have yourself a merry little time obliterating all there is to obliterate.
@Dragonspear: If you're worried about total balance, go with Sorcerer or a fighter/mage of some kind (whether you want to dual-class or just roll multi-classed is up to you.) Jan or Imoen can handle thieving for you, Korgan is all the tank you could ever want, Haer'Dalis brings ludicrous DPS, Viconia works as a ranged healer tanky person as clerics are wont to do.
Maybe roll a single class wizard slayer who focuses on ranged weapons.
@SandmanCCL
I figured I'd Grand Master in longbows first (personal preference) and then end up getting Grand Mastery in Longswords and Mastery in Dual Wield by the end of ToB. Sorcerer is kinda ruled out since they don't exist in vanilla bg1.
For awhile my list was Elven Fighter/Mage/Thief or Blade for this party. The blade was especially tempting but I didn't know how well he'd work with Haer or Jan already there. I mean that's a lot of scrolls to memorize.
Korgan/Kagain: Axes and Hammers in proper dwarven style (And shields until ToB or Crom at least)
Edwin: Quarterstaff
Viconia: Mace or Flail and Sling
Montaron: Crossbow and Shortsword/Dagger
Haer'dalis: Shortswords and I'd prolly toss points into crossbows for him.
Sarevok: Halberd, Two Handed Sword
Xzar: Uh I think he's dagger/throwing dagger if I remember right.
So it looks to me I want something that uses longswords/bastard swords etc and longbows. So Blade, Wizard Slayer or Kensai at this point. The question is if I take Jan until I get Sarevok will I have too much arcane damage in the party. On the other hand if I bring PC of that setup + Korgan (Axe of Unyielding+Crom) + Sarevok + Haer'Dalis do i have too much melee. (Herm just noticed that Imoen is ruled outta this party. Oh well have another party I wanted to bring her, sarevok and viccy in just for teh "family" feel)
and jan is the best thief in bg2.
I think the point they'd counter with though is that Haer'dalis can set a time stop trap. Cast Tensers and offensive spin and then go to down with his 8 or so attacks per round guaranteed to do max damage every hit.
My own personal counter to your statement of his 9 con however is that he does also have access to Mirror Image and Stoneskin.
The problem I see is that if I bring Haer'dalis with me in ToB, either I'm eating traps with my face or I need to be a thief (or a fighter/mage/thief). If I bring Jan with me I have a lot more options but with a lot less damage. Oh the other hand I gain higher level mage spells.
Saying "they'll chunk everything before you cast those abilities" is ignorant of a lot of the battles that actually take place in ToB. It's only two spells anyway, the latter of which doesn't have a cast animation. Most the crazy battles throw hundreds upon hundreds of enemies at you anyway, and in the ones when you should be planning ahead to cast abilities and the like, he's more dangerous than the other two melee dudes you mentioned.
Saying "Haer'Dalis sucks" is ignorant. Somehow a guy sucks because he can become god-tier but you have to use a spell or two? What kind of logic is that?
I'm not saying you have to like him, but dismissing him as a bad character is factually wrong.
The most overpowered party combination possible (I think Keldorn, Edwin and Haer'dalis will all make that list) and a topic of "Why Blades don't suck: A guide and FAQ" just so we can start linking to that when the "blade's suck" comments come up".
I would not go F/M/T due to extremely slow progression in BG1 (you lose most of the fun for half of BG saga). Also dualing in a moment that would make sense (like lvl7 at the earliest) makes the good part of BG1 a pain (as you have to regain levels).
I'm not that interested in powergaming anymore, so at the end i will choose between:
Avenger (looks like fun to play, although i'm afraid it might get boring near the end)
Blade (looks like fun, but beginning will be very very hard due to lousy Thac0 unless you sleep abuse and rest before every fight)
Cleric/Mage or Cleric Illusionist gnome (also looks like fun, lousy HP at the beginning but later an unstoppable caster if right spells chosen, with high save throws if a gnome)
BUT all those options will leave you with either Jan Jansen for ToB OR taking on all damage from traps. So i'm also considering:
Swashbuckler (should be great and quite powerful early game, killing machine near the end-game, getting all thieving abilities, also UAI and time traps...)
FMT levels for BG1 (not including ToTSC) are 5/5/6, (fighter/mage/thief). With ToTSC I believe they are 6/6/7
The upsides I see to it are:
Able to specialize in a weapon
Able to Backstab
Able to cast up to 6th level arcane spells
Still enough thieving points to cover everything you need in the saga
Downsides:
Very VERY slow progression as you noted
Wasted Mage HLAs unless you mod since you can only cast level 6 spells
Very slow HLAs in general
Very few actual proficiency points (You only get them with fighter levels) so you're pretty dedicated to what weapons you do choose.
Reliant upon items, potions and spells for stealthing
Basically you trade very fast levelling, progression and bard song for the ability to specialize in your weapon of choice and use thieving abilities outside of pick pocket.
Personally I don't like dual classing myself (which is funny considering my favorite 3e character concept is a Paladin/Ranger/Fighter)
BG1:
Viconia - healing & slinging - can tank when buffed, best used to tank against magic users
Edwin - arcane hurling - should be spamming magic missile and summons
Kagain - tanking & axing - give him the bracers of dexterity and he's unstoppable
Xzar - backup mage - crowd management with horror, sleep and the like
now for the last spot, either:
Shar-Teel - backup tanking & cutting - dual her to thief and she can backstab anything into chunks
Montaron - archer & thief - best used as a lockpicks / trap thief because of his slow level progression
If you decide to be a Swashbuckler, put all your points into traps and lockpicking, this means Montaron or Shar-Teel can then invest into hiding in shadows and you can be a backup fighter / archer
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If you decide to be an Avenger, you will have one full druid and one full cleric in your party, alongside two full specialised mages, which is crazy powerful since you'll have access to all spells! You can also cast mage spells which helps bolster your defences for when you shapeshift and join the fray!
BG2:
Viconia - as stated above, I'd recommend doing the human skin quest by killing the white dragon, with that and a few other items, Viconia can become 100% magic resistant, if you get her over 100% magic based spells will then start to heal her (I think?!)
Edwin - robe of Vecna, which admittedly you probably won't acquire until a bit later, he also appears a bit later than one would like, employ either Jan or Nalia to fill the role of arcane power until then.
Korgan - dual wielding axes is all I really need to say
Haer'Dalis - as mentioned above, really powerful when used correctly, have him dual wielding short swords, he is also a backup mage which you need in SoA and ToB and can utilise all those lovely bard specific items throughout the game
now for the last spot, either:
Yoshimo - keep him as your main thief, or if you're truly evil, dual him to fighter just before he departs, so when you do 'encounter' him again, he'll be useless. I wouldn't recommend taking Imoen, she's a good guy, let's keep things evil in here.
Jan - bonus is that he's the only full thief that doesn't die, he's an illusionist too which is ace, but perhaps your party is too arcane heavy at this point with Haer'Dalis
Custom NPC - you can create your own character (assassin to keep things evil) in multiplayer alongside importing your BG1 PC, then save the game and drag that saved game into the single player folder and hey presto you have a full class thief in your group. Go with assassin, because thieves level up quickest and even though assassins get only a 15% stat distribution per level, that will be plenty enough to max out lockpicking and traps to then dump the rest in hiding, snares and detecting illusions (which is awesome!).
So in summary, play as an avenger and create a custom NPC assassin when you get to BG2.
Avengers are looking better and better to me, especially with evil party members because True Neutral gives you some flexibility. And I know you aren't playing with mods, but check out Spell Revisions just the same. It might change your mind.
Two things keep me from a full druid playthrough, though:
Casting in BG1 feels very one-off and limited; outside of boss fights you spend most of your time throwing rocks. And there's not really much in great gear for your PC to get excited about.
In BG2, Druids hit that HUGE XP WALL at level 14. Serious downer.
Edit to add: If NPC interactions matter to you, check out this list on Game Banshee. The descriptions contain spoilers, obviously, but skimming the headers ("Vicionia vs ...") will give you a good sense of who mixes it up with whom, and maybe the best way to pack your party with argumentative NPCs:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/npcs.php
I removed Jan and added Sarevok in ToB.
I played an assassin.
Balanced and powerful parties, both of them.
Can't wait for Dorn to add another "real" evil character to the roster and shake things up.
Even if Tenser's disables offensive spin which I believe it does not, you can still cast offensive spin before hand
I've never really been a fan of druids myself nor of neutral alignments. Not to mention it just seems weird that I'd be running a party with 4 evils and 2 neutrals, especially when my main character is supposedly neutral.
Even if you take the Faldorn approach, I still don't understand why a druid would be bringing these companions with them.
Sorry for being such a pain but I'll admit there is some minimal amounts of RP that I use for my parties at least.
As far as the swashie suggestion, while I admit that swashies look like a fun class, I really like the idea of backstabbing