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license for two computers

olexandrolexandr Member Posts: 1
edited September 2012 in Windows PC (Archive)
I have two computers. If I order one copy of the game can I run a single player on both of them? I guess for multi players I would need two separate licenses, right?
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Comments

  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    When you buy 1 copy of the game, even though you can install it on multiple computers, you're not buying it for two people to play at once.

    A good way to think about it is the multiple installations are for you to put on your devices, so no matter where your at you can play, ie, desktop, laptop, second laptop/desktop, etc.
    Post edited by bigdogchris on
  • olexandrolexandr Member Posts: 1
    thanks, this is exactly my situation: I have two devices and ideally would like to play on either of them.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Yes, as long as both of those computers are PCs, you'll be able to play it on both just fine. You can even install it on a friend's computer to show your friend how crazy awesome the game is, provided that your friend has an internet connection during installation.

    The only thing you can't do is play a multiplayer game with two devices using the same license.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    Aosaw said:

    You can even install it on a friend's computer to show your friend how crazy awesome the game is, provided that your friend has an internet connection during installation.

    That would be violating the license agreement as the game would be activated and they can play it even when you have left.

    Remember that you do not own the software, you are being licensed the rights to play the game on devices you own.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @bigdogchris I don't know what the license agreement states; but what I said is based on what I've read from Trent.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    Aosaw said:

    @bigdogchris I don't know what the license agreement states; but what I said is based on what I've read from Trent.

    If you install it on someone else's computer to show them the game, that's fine, but you can't leave it on there for them to play while you're gone, because now two people are playing one purchased game.

    Does that sound legal/fair/right to you?

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited September 2012

    Aosaw said:

    You can even install it on a friend's computer to show your friend how crazy awesome the game is, provided that your friend has an internet connection during installation.

    That would be violating the license agreement as the game would be activated and they can play it even when you have left.

    Remember that you do not own the software, you are being licensed the rights to play the game on devices you own.
    By another side sell the same game for different plataforms is an illegal pratice from where i come, that happens cos you're not selling the means to install/use the game (as it happens with different video game plataforms, PS3, Wii, Xbox...) but the product is the license to use the software (note that what you brought normally isn't the software itself but the license to use it). It's the same product, but limited to work in specific conditions so you can sell it twice to other plataforms (what become more clear in Win/Mac example).

    The online sale of games expand the business capacity and raised significantly the profits, as you cut from the ratio of consumption several intermediary expenses and easly reach more customers that you didn't had access before, but the companies for another side doesn't want to revaluate their copyrights reach, and try to use the same restrictions of physical sales to their online sales (and this isn't a privilege of Beamdog, every game company make this).

    So @olexandr, in the end it's up to you what you gonna do, use good sense, in my view if i have more than one PC in my house (what i don't atm) i have all the rights to install the game in all my computers and call my friends to play with me with one copy of the product, but to spread the game by install it on an friend's house is a little too much.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    kamuizin said:

    Aosaw said:

    You can even install it on a friend's computer to show your friend how crazy awesome the game is, provided that your friend has an internet connection during installation.

    That would be violating the license agreement as the game would be activated and they can play it even when you have left.

    Remember that you do not own the software, you are being licensed the rights to play the game on devices you own.
    By another side sell the same game for different plataforms is an illegal pratice from where i come, that happens cos you're not selling the means to install/use the game (as it happens with different video game plataforms, PS3, Wii, Xbox...) but the product is the license to use the software (not that what you brought normally isn't the software itself but the license to use it). It's the same product, but limited to work in specific conditions so you can sell it twice to other plataforms (what become more clear in Win/Mac example).

    The online sale of games expand the business capacity and raised significantly the profits, as you cut from the ratio of consumption several intermediary expenses and easly reach more customers that you didn't had access before, but the companies for another side doesn't want to revaluate their copyrights reach, and try to use the same restrictions of physical sales to their online sales (and this isn't a privilege of Beamdog, every game company make this).

    So @olexandr, in the end it's up to you what you gonna do, use good sense, in my view if i have more than one PC in my house (what i don't atm) i have all the rights to install the game in all my computers and call my friends to play with me with one copy of the product, but to spread the game by install it on an friend's house is a little too much.
    The ability to install the game on multiple devices in itself does not necessarily grant the right to use all copies at one time. Every publisher is different though and maybe Beamdog doesn't care if you do what you mentioned, but do not assume that every company will allow you to do that.

    A good example is Microsoft Office, which allows you to install the software on one desktop and one laptop, as you can own both but do not use both at the same time.



  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    @bigdogchris, just let's remember that big companies never lost money, the values that they lost by whichever way that it's happen, they pass on the final price to the paying customers. I don't give a shit to Windows terms of use, unless my country laws force me otherwise.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @bigdogchris, Beamdog's alpha dogs (Trent, Phil) have already explained the nuances of difference between sharing the game with a friend and sharing your account information with the local college campus so that everyone in Boston can play the game for free.

    They don't care if you let your friend play the game, because that allows a new player to experience the game. They mostly care if you start distributing it to thousands and thousands of potential customers that might otherwise have purchased the game for themselves.

    That's why you can have several copies running concurrently, but can't play multiplayer with those copies unless each copy is using a separate license.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    So Beamdog's opinion of copyright is more open than more companies, it's a nice thing to know and i will take this in account from now on when i evaluate Beamdog in comparison with other companies (as more tolerance to technical problems and etc...).
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    Aosaw said:

    @bigdogchris, Beamdog's alpha dogs (Trent, Phil) have already explained the nuances of difference between sharing the game with a friend and sharing your account information with the local college campus so that everyone in Boston can play the game for free.

    They don't care if you let your friend play the game, because that allows a new player to experience the game. They mostly care if you start distributing it to thousands and thousands of potential customers that might otherwise have purchased the game for themselves.

    That's why you can have several copies running concurrently, but can't play multiplayer with those copies unless each copy is using a separate license.

    I'm 100% sure that if you ask Trent "Can I install BG:EE on my computer, then go to my friends house and install my BG:EE on his computer, so we can both play, is that OK?" he will say that the friend has to buy a copy.

    Why on Earth would they allow you to install the game on your friends computer to open up "potential customers" when that "customer" isn't even paying to begin with?

    And just to make sure you are not confusing anything, installing the game to show a friend then removing it and installing the game to show the friend then leaving it installed on his computer so he can play it, are two totally different things. I am talking about the later violating the license.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    He'll say (and has said in the past) that he would rather that your friend buy a copy, and that you won't be able to play multiplayer using the same license, but that if you want to share the game with friends, he won't stand in the way.

    I'll see if I can find a quote for you.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    Aosaw said:

    he would rather that your friend buy a copy

    Exactly, thanks.

    You don't have to spend time looking for the quote because I know what you are referring to.

    I'm not going to spend time trying to change your mind if you have already justified sharing one purchase amongst multiple people that have not paid, but if your inclined to do such a thing that is your prerogative.
    Post edited by bigdogchris on
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited September 2012
    Wow, nice selective quotation. :P

    Did you just not read the "he won't stand in the way" part? Of course a developer would like to sell more copies of their game. That doesn't mean a developer doesn't want as many people to play it as possible.

    The fact that the authentication is done at the time of installation, rather than at launch, should tell you something about where the priority is. They'll encourage you to install it and reinstall it as many times as you like, as long as you're the one actually performing the installation. This includes installing the game on a friend's computer so they can play it for themselves and see what all the fuss is about.

    In any case, none of us has seen the license agreement, so this is all speculation. What we do know is what is actually allowed by the software itself, without any intervention of cracks or hacks. You can install the game on as many PC machines as you like without repercussion. The game doesn't care if you're the one playing the game or not, as long as you're the one who installed it.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    So I buy BG:EE and then personally install it on 20 different friend's computers, rather than them buying it, that's OK to you?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited September 2012
    As long as you personally sit there and install it? Yes, I'm fine with that. I think 20 different friends might be stretching the spirit of things a bit, though.

    The concept of "ability to share" with digital media is the same as the concept of "ability to lend" in physical media. We don't have the physical discs anymore, so you can't actually "lend" a game to your friend as readily as you could ten years ago. What Beamdog has done here is create a method for you to do that, by designing their software to allow you to perform multiple installations with relative impunity.

    For better clarity: Do I think it's ethical to share the game with 20 friends, or 200 friends, and sit there with them to install it so that they don't have to buy it for themselves? No.

    But do I think it should be prohibited? No. If it means that you show the game to one of your friends, and that friend gets hooked on the game's story and decides to buy it for himself and then shares it with another of his friends, then that's a definite win for the industry and for Beamdog.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    20 people playing 1 copy sounds a little like piracy to me.
    Aosaw said:

    As long as you personally sit there and install it? Yes, I'm fine with that. I think 20 different friends might be stretching the spirit of things a bit, though.

    The concept of "ability to share" with digital media is the same as the concept of "ability to lend" in physical media. We don't have the physical discs anymore, so you can't actually "lend" a game to your friend as readily as you could ten years ago. What Beamdog has done here is create a method for you to do that, by designing their software to allow you to perform multiple installations with relative impunity.

    For better clarity: Do I think it's ethical to share the game with 20 friends, or 200 friends, and sit there with them to install it so that they don't have to buy it for themselves? No.

    But do I think it should be prohibited? No. If it means that you show the game to one of your friends, and that friend gets hooked on the game's story and decides to buy it for himself and then shares it with another of his friends, then that's a definite win for the industry and for Beamdog.

    The difference is with physical disc you are required to have the disc to play, so only 1 person can play at once, but with digital you don't need the disc so all 20 could play at once.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited September 2012
    It has some similarities, except that in this case it's more like "lending the game to twenty friends at once". You have to know the people in order to install it on their computers, after all. You're not distributing the game in its entirety for public use over the internet; you're distributing it to a few close friends who might enjoy playing it.

    Again, it has ethical complications if you abuse the privilege, but until we read the actual EULA, none of us can say for certain whether this is something that Beamdog wants to prevent.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited September 2012
    @Aosaw
    I'm totally in agreement with what you are saying, as I've shared many PC games before, but they all required the disc so only one person could play at a time. As a matter of fact though, I borrowed the original BG 5 disc set from a friend 14 years ago, which is the reason I'm here today. Since then I've gone on to purchase BG 3 disc set, BG2 Collectors Edition, IWD2, BG 4-in-1 Box Set, and BG:EE, so I know first hand that sharing can lead to additional sales, but it doesn't work that way for everyone.

    My entire argument here is just to point out to people that 'sharing' digital media can quickly get out of hand and beyond the original plan and spirit, as pointed out in my 20 friend example.

    @TrentOster @PhillipDaigle

    We would like your comments and concerns.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I'm remembering where I heard him talk about it. It was in one of those long skype interviews a while back. They were asking about DRM, and if it would be possible to reinstall the game. He said that they don't limit the number of installations, so you could install it as many times on as many machines as you want. He also said that they will keep a record of the number of installations per license, so if they see that your copy has been installed a thousand times over the course of a month, they might send you an email to make sure your account hasn't been compromised.

    There may or may not have been something in there about sharing it with friends, but it's been more than a month since I watched it.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    You know bigd, a company normally already take care of their interests, they don't need customers advocating for them.

    As i said, with internet, in software sales terms, you largely expand the scope of your consumer market, therefore you profit more. However the side effect is that you somehow lost the total control of this product, believe that Team BG take that in account, worse than a player sharing the game with 1 or 2 persons is a hack group take off the first time validation, that's probally Team BG main issue, the prevention of this problem.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    We just have to take in account that if we abuse and Beamdog don't profit there will be no other enhanced editions or Baldur's Gate III in the future.
  • paulsifer42paulsifer42 Member Posts: 267

    We'd rather people bought the game, but time spent strengthening the DRM is time not spent making the game better. We're going to make the game better. If you want to install the game for your buddy using your account, you can, but we only get paid when someone buys a copy and we need to make back a lot of investment in this game. After Atari and Wizards line up we don't get much money, so we need every sale we can get. Multi-player-wise, we're not going to block connecting with the same version, we'll track it and see how much it gets abused.

    -Trent

    I really hope this ends up not being a problem. It seems like a really cool thing you guys are doing and to see it abused would be pretty sad.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    It's better than the open war between skidrow and Ubisoft, The most hilarious comment you can find in Ubisoft are like (just an example, not a quote):

    "I brought this shit and it didn't worked, when i get it running, the game asked me to be online all the time and at each peak on the connection i get dropped from the game! I had to crack my official game to make this shit works!!!!"

    Serious, when a company reach this kind of point, where the pirate gamers are more satisfied than the paying ones, that's the end. It's hilarious, well... for me at least as i'm seeing this outside the problem, surely isn't hilarious to Ubisoft or the upsed client.

    The enhanced editions will not be an issue, as most of the customers for them are old gamers and true fans (after all we cheer this game for 12 years). The big issue will be the new titles, as the probable Baldur's Gate III, that i think will need a little (or better) protection, at least in my view.
  • Misz_BMisz_B Member Posts: 7

    Multi-player-wise, we're not going to block connecting with the same version, we'll track it and see how much it gets abused.

    -Trent

    So, if I understood this correctly. I can buy one copy and then play a mulitplayer game with my wife, using this only one copy?

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    pretty much like that, besides, inside the family environment i would not see a reason to a high level rigor in copyright, what turn to make reasonable why they sell different copies of the game to mac, win, Ipad... a bit surprising to deal with an company that care about their customers instead of only care for their pockets, no? :)!

  • Misz_BMisz_B Member Posts: 7
    Well in fact all DRM's that don't allow all members of a family to play a game at once are violating my country's law... And in fact all steamworks games work like that...
    In fact possibility of playing multiplayer with my wife using only one copy is for me one of most important conditions to buy this game.
  • SamielSamiel Member Posts: 156
    The funny thing with this whole piracy debate is a question of demographics. There are some people who will only pirate games, and no matter what you do they won't buy a damn game in their lives. In essence, attempting to stop them doesn't make a whole lot of difference to a publisher's bottom line. Except nailing the occasional one to the wall as an example to try and dissuade the practice, but realistically it doesn't net much benefit. There are a HUGE number of people who do this.

    Then you have people who might have bought the game, but with it being freely available just pirate it, but otherwise if they had been forced to they would have bought it. Obviously this is the group that DRM and anti-piracy approaches are actually targeting. It is also worth bearing in mind that this group dubdivides as well, into people who pirate stuff, and if they enjoy the game go out and buy a copy to support the title. These are also the types of people that if a mate lends em the game, they then like it, they then buy it. The balancing act is this: you want to try and dissuade people who would have bought the game anyway to buy, but you don't want DRM and such that is so draconian that it prevents sales from people, that whom after trying it, would then go on to buy it.

    Bottom line is if the demographic of pirates who would go on to buy it after playing (coupled with folks who after being lent the title would go on to buy it) is greater than the number of people who would have bought it. but don't (thanks to piracy), then it's not worth bothering with DRM. Thing is this is dependant on the quality of the game itself. In BG's case we know the game is very very good, so I would suspect in this case the former category is probably bigger than the latter.

    I've tried to avoid the whole issue of wether piracy is right/wrong. However for the record whilst I do believe it is wrong, I happen to believe that our civil liberties are more important. I don't think it is for the state to wade in and fix the problem on behalf of vested financial interests, but we as a community of gamers should frown on the practice and dissuade those of us that do through passion for our hobby, and non-judgemental reasoned debate.
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