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[MOD] PS:T Unfinished Business - Reloaded

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Comments

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    edited January 13
    lujo said:

    Keep in mind, though, that the other crypts in the catacombs have names (Shattered Crypt, for example, Crypt of Dismemberment). If you called it, and this is just a suggestion, Ancient Crypt, it'd fit in with the way the others are called. If you call it just "Crypt" it'll look weird.

    You have a point. Then again the very similar-looking map where you can arrive from the Mortuary is simply called "Tomb". I'll call it "Crypt" for now and add "Ancient Crypt" to the list of lines to be translated later.

    lujo
  • stibiusstibius Member Posts: 17
    It seems weird when the golem's only dialogue is "no response". You could put at least a short description there and maybe a couple dialogue options to which the golem doesn't react (like mortuary zombies).

    I think that the golem in the skull room is relatively poorly visible when standing in front of the skull shelves. Maybe put him somewhere else where he would stand out more?

    Could you make Lothar instantly kill you if you loot his items or attack his golems in his presence? Because he does this when you directly attack him. You then wake up in the room with the colored window. I think it would make more sense than him just standing there. The golems would have to be reset back to neutral after this so they don't go after you when you return.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    edited January 14
    The golem response is actually a standard dialog used by several creatures in the game that aren't supposed to to be conversable. You're right though, it could provide a short description instead.

    If you anger or attack the golems, Lothar will react with some floating text. Although I think he should stay passive though. For once he's only really interested in powerful skulls. And second it would seem weird if he has to 'defend' his own guards. If you can defeat the golems, then he will simply restore them later. If you are defeated, then they have proven their effectiveness.

    Btw, Lothar killing you instantly simply because you touched some (quite minor) treasure whould defeat the purpose of having treasure to loot at all. From what I've seen in the game files there is a variable that indicates Lothar can get mad at you, but there is no indication that it would result in an attack.

    Post edited by argent77 on
    bob_veng
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    edited January 14
    I've created a small dialog for Lothar's golems. Could someone look over these lines for spelling? (Spoiler alert!)
    The golem stands motionless and stares straight ahead. It has a massive frame and resembles an enormous ghoul, complete with sharp claws and a flickering black tongue. Aside from these features there is no indication that it is more than a simple statue.
    • [If you have the Gorgon Salve] Apply the Gorgon Salve to the golem.
      • You smear the foul-smelling ointment over the golem. At first nothing happens, but after several moments cracks and tears appear all over the golem body while it slowly changes into something more fragile. No longer being able to lift its own weight, the golem crumples into nothing more than a few pieces of a gooey substance.
    • Leave.

    lujo
  • CanzahCanzah Member Posts: 26
    Seems fine to me, though I'd perhaps change "all over the golem body" to "all over the golem's body".

    argent77
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 14
    Alright, here's my take:

    The golem's massive frame resembles an enormous ghoul, complete with sharp claws and a flickering black tongue. And if it wasn't for that, you'd think it's nothing more than a simple statue.
    • [If you have the Gorgon Salve] Apply the Gorgon Salve to the golem.
      • You smear the foul-smelling ointment over the golem. At first nothing happens, but after several moments cracks and tears appear all over the its body as it slowly softens. No longer able to lift its own weight, the golem crumples into nothing more than a heap of goo.
    • Leave.



    I fixed a bunch of grammar and phrasing and thightened it, but it's otherwise bri-li-ant. The small problem, though, is that:

    There's only one Gorgon Salve in the game. Could you stick one more somewhere?

    And while you're at it, could I trouble you to stick one jar of Embalming fluid somewhere around the hive? You need 3 in the beginning and there's only 2 until you've explored the catacombs which is kind of too late.


    argent77
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    Oh, sorry, the "Leave" should be "Leave the creature alone".

    Oh, and if you're up to restoring some content, I think I figured out why there are two frost mugs in the game. It's basically just a dialogue option for to solve a quest. That's often not "just" but it'd be pretty cool.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    lujo said:

    Alright, here's my take:

    The golem's massive frame resembles an enormous ghoul, complete with sharp claws and a flickering black tongue. And if it wasn't for that, you'd think it's nothing more than a simple statue.

    • [If you have the Gorgon Salve] Apply the Gorgon Salve to the golem.
      • You smear the foul-smelling ointment over the golem. At first nothing happens, but after several moments cracks and tears appear all over the its body as it slowly softens. No longer able to lift its own weight, the golem crumples into nothing more than a heap of goo.
    • Leave.

    I fixed a bunch of grammar and phrasing and thightened it, but it's otherwise bri-li-ant. The small problem, though, is that:
    There's only one Gorgon Salve in the game. Could you stick one more somewhere?

    And while you're at it, could I trouble you to stick one jar of Embalming fluid somewhere around the hive? You need 3 in the beginning and there's only 2 until you've explored the catacombs which is kind of too late.
    Sounds good, especially the second part.
    However, the first line doesn't sound right to me yet.

    How about a slightly reshuffled version of my original line:
    The golem's massive frame resembles an enormous ghoul, complete with sharp claws and a flickering black tongue. It stands motionless and stares straight ahead. There is no indication that it is more than a simple statue.

    The Gorgon Salve is only needed for an optional quest, which is only worth completing if you have Morte around. It's also only available from Vrischika's set of unique items. I don't think there should be a second instance available somewhere else.

    What do you need three Embalming Fluid for? I can only remember one instance where you can use it to poison someone.

    lujo said:

    Oh, sorry, the "Leave" should be "Leave the creature alone".

    Yeah, I'm actually reusing strref 3018 ("Leave the golem alone.") from Coaxmetal's dialog.

  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    The "There is no indication that it is more than a simple statue." and "a flickering black tongue." Don't go together. If it's got a flickering tongue it's rather conspicuously alive. That's why I dropped the line.

    The sidequest is notable for picking up taunts for Morte and morte's taunt is the strongest ability in the game, so not using the only salve for that is not something I'd do. Several "special" items in Vrishika's shop can be found and bought elsewhere, including the Frost Ale Mug you need for a part of the main quest.

    As for the enbalming fluid:

    You need one for Ei-vene in the mortuary, one for Vaxis to make you a zombie, and one to poison Mochai. There are two in the mortuary, and theoretically you can get one more but then you have to lie to vaxis. Just having one lying around any old where (mausoleum, mortuary top floor, really anywhere in the hive at all) would be very nice.


    bob_veng
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 1,964
    edited January 14
    here's my take. i tried to make it much more literary:

    The golem stands motionless. Encased within the rugged surface of the stone lie eerily "lifelike" renditions of ragged muscles, bones, and sharp claws... together assembling a massively framed ghoul.


    (the rest is great, but maybe instead of gooey substance it should crumple into pieces of rotten flesh and broken bone or something similar because the salve is meant to reverse petrification which the current dialogue doesn't signify)

    edit: about the availability of Gorgon Salve - i think there should be multiple of those; maybe vrischika could sell infinite amounts ("... a box of jars containing a green liquid ..." > "i'll take one" - and you can do this over and over again)

    argent77
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    lujo said:

    The "There is no indication that it is more than a simple statue." and "a flickering black tongue." Don't go together. If it's got a flickering tongue it's rather conspicuously alive. That's why I dropped the line.

    Good point. I'll remove "flickering" then.

    lujo said:

    The sidequest is notable for picking up taunts for Morte and morte's taunt is the strongest ability in the game, so not using the only salve for that is not something I'd do. Several "special" items in Vrishika's shop can be found and bought elsewhere, including the Frost Ale Mug you need for a part of the main quest.

    Well, there are countless "Stone to Flesh" scrolls available in Baldur's Gate, so a salve with the same effect shouldn't be counted as unique artifact in Sigil either. I could add another one to Pestle's store (and slightly increase price of the item). Modifying Vrischika's dialog would be more invasive and might even require new dialog lines. Something I'd like to avoid.

    lujo said:

    As for the enbalming fluid:

    You need one for Ei-vene in the mortuary, one for Vaxis to make you a zombie, and one to poison Mochai. There are two in the mortuary, and theoretically you can get one more but then you have to lie to vaxis. Just having one lying around any old where (mausoleum, mortuary top floor, really anywhere in the hive at all) would be very nice.

    Another Embalming Fluid could be added to the "Restored Items" component. I'll think about it.

    bob_veng said:

    here's my take. i tried to make it much more literary:

    The golem stands motionless. Encased within the rugged surface of the stone, lie eerily "lifelike" renditions of ragged muscles, bones, and sharp claws... together assembling a massively framed ghoul.
    That line sounds great either.

    bob_veng said:

    (the rest is great, but maybe instead of gooey substance it should crumple into pieces of rotten flesh and broken bone or something similar because the salve is meant to reverse petrification which the current dialogue doesn't signify)

    Yeah, I wasn't sure if it makes sense to turn a golem into a humanoid with this salve. But there are stranger things going on in Sigil, so why not.

    A slightly modified version of lujo's attempt:
    You smear the foul-smelling ointment over the golem. At first nothing happens, but after several moments cracks and tears appear all over its body as it slowly softens. No longer able to lift its own weight, the golem crumples into nothing more than a heap of brittle bones and rotting flesh.

    lujobob_veng
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 14
    The salve is technically a "charm" of the spell "Stone to flesh" which wasn't implemented. I wouldn't necessarily have Vrischika sell multiples because that she doesn't do, but I would plant one more in either Undersigil, Warrens of Thought, the basement of the Brothel or the Festhal.

    Technically, I'd plant two, for my own reasons.

    I wouldn't add it to the merchants, Vrishka special stuff isn't avaliable that way.

    Edit, oh, and the Embalming fluid into the Mausoleum (the one where there's a bunch of undead), if possible, that's probably the right place. Or wherever is easiest.

  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 14
    Say, I have a question - is it possible to change the graphics for an item? It's always irritated me that Gorgon Salve looks exactly like Embalming fluid, and I was going to make a formal suggestion to just pallete swap the picture to be purple, or yellow or whatever, just not green?

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    lujo said:

    Say, I have a question - is it possible to change the graphics for an item? It's always irritated me that Gorgon Salve looks exactly like Embalming fluid, and I was going to make a formal suggestion to just pallete swap the picture to be purple, or yellow or whatever, just not green?

    Maybe one of the unused icons would be more suitable? I can offer II063.BAM, II123.BAM, II126.BAM and II206.BAM, which are currently not used by any other items.

    lujo
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    I'd go with the first one :)

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 1,964
    argent77 said:

    ...
    Yeah, I wasn't sure if it makes sense to turn a golem into a humanoid with this salve. But there are stranger things going on in Sigil, so why not.

    A slightly modified version of lujo's attempt:

    You smear the foul-smelling ointment over the golem. At first nothing happens, but after several moments cracks and tears appear all over its body as it slowly softens. No longer able to lift its own weight, the golem crumples into nothing more than a heap of brittle bones and rotting flesh.

    great!

    btw. not into a humanoid - you turn it into depetrified undead bodyparts, because it was assembled from petrified undead (ghoul) bodyparts, and not created from a whole petrified ghoul...since the undead beings have been vanquished and their remains are not sustained by necromantic powers anymore, their undead flesh is just rotting flesh (without the supernatural extra ghoulish toughness :) ) and the whole thing just crumbles to the floor in pieces

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    edited January 15
    I'm working on the lines for the Candlestick Quest, so that I can relocate the portal to the catacombs. Luckily there are only two lines to change. My first attempt:
    From Ulthera's dialog (strref 64883)
    Original: "Aye, north an' west it be, near the entrance to the town... Ulthera found it for ye, now go!"
    My attempt: "Aye, down the catacombs it be, go south until a dead end ye find. If at the doorstep to the Dead Nations ye stand, too far ye went... Ulthera found it for ye, now go!"

    From journal entry (strref 64936):
    Original: She chanted and carried on a bit, then said the portal could be found to the northwest, near the entry to the buried village.
    My attempt: She chanted and carried on a bit, then said the portal could be found down in the Weeping Stone Catacombs, near a dead end to the south, not too far from the entrance to the Dead Nations.

    lujo
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    Don't have her mention Dead Nations. A player can get this before ever hearing about them (or going into the catacombs), and there's no indication that anyone other than Many-as-One knows that the undead in the catacombs are sentient or that they call themselves that at all. Just cut that part of the sentence.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    Well, the Dead Nations are labeled as such with a map marker. But removing this bit shouldn't make the directions much harder to follow.
    Dialog: "Aye, down the catacombs it be, go south until a dead end ye find... Ulthera found it for ye, now go!"

    Journal: She chanted and carried on a bit, then said the portal could be found down in the Weeping Stone Catacombs, near a dead end to the south.

    lujobob_veng
  • SoulReaverSoulReaver Member Posts: 26
    edited January 15
    Yes, that's much better.

    I agree that the Dead Nations shouldn't be mentioned, Sigil's living population have no idea it exists, let alone where it is or what it's called.

  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    Some quick feedback on the Pendant of Yemeth:

    Two things, really:

    1) If you kill the Rake, it should be possible to talk to Rake-Chaser "normally" immediately, there's no need to wait for night. It might already be like this but I'm not sure it is.

    2) IS the Rake-Chaser dialogue really in the original game files? And if so, does this mean I can fix it up a bit by replying to the text issues thread? Because I could improve the style of it quite a bit.

    3) I have a few more things I think it needs before it's properly polished, but they can wait.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    lujo said:

    Some quick feedback on the Pendant of Yemeth:

    Two things, really:

    1) If you kill the Rake, it should be possible to talk to Rake-Chaser "normally" immediately, there's no need to wait for night. It might already be like this but I'm not sure it is.

    2) IS the Rake-Chaser dialogue really in the original game files? And if so, does this mean I can fix it up a bit by replying to the text issues thread? Because I could improve the style of it quite a bit.

    3) I have a few more things I think it needs before it's properly polished, but they can wait.
    1) The quest provides two Rake-Chasers. One version is present during the day together with the Rake. This version doesn't have any useful dialog. The other version is spawned at night and has all the dialog you would expect.

    2) Yes, these (both) dialogs exist in the unmodified game. However, I would advise against making such a request. If Beamdog changed them, it would only make my work more difficult to install this quest for both classic PST and PST:EE.

    3) I'm open for any contributions that could improve this quest. Just keep in mind that the mod aims to be compatible with both classic PST and PST:EE. PSTEE-only features should be avoided if possible.

    lujo
  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    Ty for info.

    Ok, then:

    Are two Rake-Chasers really necessary?

    It's quite a nuisance that you can't just confront Rake-Chaser right there once the Rake is dead. Also, it's a bit odd if Rake-Chaser returns to the same spot where it ran away from you.

    I'd like that out of the way first.


  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,316
    lujo said:

    Ty for info.

    Ok, then:

    Are two Rake-Chasers really necessary?

    It's quite a nuisance that you can't just confront Rake-Chaser right there once the Rake is dead. Also, it's a bit odd if Rake-Chaser returns to the same spot where it ran away from you.

    I'd like that out of the way first.

    That's how it's implemented in the unmodified game. Changing it would mean a lot of work, as I would have to rewrite a great portion of the dialog. I don't think that would be in the spirit of an 'Unfinished Business' mod.

    I have always assumed Rake-Chaser at daytime is the "true" Rake-Chaser, who does the odd jobs in the Hive to survive. The Rake is just there to protect the helpless man, so that the disguise of the fiendish Rake-Chaser doesn't get busted.

    lujoAedan
  • stibiusstibius Member Posts: 17
    argent77 said:


    I have always assumed Rake-Chaser at daytime is the "true" Rake-Chaser, who does the odd jobs in the Hive to survive. The Rake is just there to protect the helpless man, so that the disguise of the fiendish Rake-Chaser doesn't get busted.


    You mean that the fiend is there only at night and during the day it is a normal collector? That makes no sense imho because the fiend needs to capture the souls of those who are killed by the Rake. How is she going to do that if she is away during the day when the duels happen.


  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 17
    It also doesn't make sense because:

    The Rake is obviously mind-controlled at the time he's talking to you, which is very obvious from the dialogues.


    but I get the hint that Argent doesn't want to tangle with sorting that out, at the very least not right now, and I'm kinda waiting for the next update so I don't want to even attempt talking him into "makesensifying" the whole thing. Right now.

    Having said that, when I'm done whith the whole item bussines (it's a LOT of work), I'm very much interested in making that quest watertight enough to get it included in the base game :D (At the very least because I need Ratbone in the base game for my "Rats in the halls!" mod I'm 100% certain I want to make).

  • stibiusstibius Member Posts: 17
    lujo said:

    I'm very much interested in making that quest watertight enough to get it included in the base game :D

    You think you can convince Beamdog to change their stance regarding UB? Good luck.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 1,964
    yeah, you can forget about that

  • lujolujo Member Posts: 236
    edited January 17
    stibius said:

    lujo said:

    I'm very much interested in making that quest watertight enough to get it included in the base game :D

    You think you can convince Beamdog to change their stance regarding UB? Good luck.

    Depends on what we're talking about. Some of the stuff they implemented already messed things up quite a bit I think. I don't even think it, I'm sure of it. The game is also loaded with bugs. Might not be their fault, but the PC I had a clean install on is in the repair shop right now, and it has savegames needed to actually report most of the bugs I found on a leisurely playthrough, which is several pages worth of them. The bugs I was able to report without those already spammed the oficial report forums. I can single-handedly improve the templating on all the items in the game making EE quite a bit superior to the original game, etc etc. I'm pretty sure I could help make some of the UB content perfectly fine to implement.

    I mean, some of it actually IS 100% implementable right now. Morte's questionable stuff has been separated from the actually worthwhile book moment, and now the book thing can be easily implemented right away, for example. The Ingress' teeth dialogue thing is also perfectly functional and implementable. I bet separate formal requests for those two things with all the proper arrangements and explanations could be accepted. No reason not to, but I can give you reasons not to for some other things.

    Some stuff in the UB is not very far from being implementable. The candlestick quest, now that some work has been done on it, is actually not that far away from being seamelessly implementable once the portal is in the catacombs (assuming the fact that it's not the problem that the graphics for the "crypt" are kind of obviously discarded tomb graphics and that the dialogues involved need a style-guide looking at, and possibly Ulthera needs to be somewhere other than right in front of Mebbeth's house.). It used to be ghastly, eye poking and tone deaf, but give it a few more tweaks and it'll be impossible to tell it's not original material.

    Pendant of Yemeth needs work though, it needs to lose the original reasons why it was scrapped, and it's likely that they weren't happy with the fiends dialogue, and that they weren't happy with the whole night-day thing as it wasn't a mechanic present anywhere else. Fix those two things and a few obviously jarring things (like being able to talk to Rake-Chaser normaly if you kill the Rake, and being able to get the pendant from Rake-Chaser without killing her, as well as a few small polishes, and it's much closer to being very enticing to implement and make a cool promo blogpost about how the classic got a new bit restored yadda yadda).

    Just saying. I can make the EE a worthwhile purchase, and the buzz around the internet and irl is that it's not. I get why people are saying it, I know how to improve the situation. I actually know and remember WHY the game failed to sell originally, and a lot of it can be easily fixed and had to do with accessibility (like templating, people literally couldn't tell what items and spells did). Might be worth listening to me, who knows?

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