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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    I see we're lending the Bayeux Tapestry to UK for displaying. After lending Rodin's Thinker to China a few years ago and several artworkto Abu Dhabi, seems art is becoming a diplomatic tool.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    deltago said:

    No one is stupid. Every single last person on earth holds some form of intelligence. Writing people off in a negative way because emotions over take rational thought is counter productive.

    Yes, individually people are often brilliant and have solved many seemingly-intractable problems throughout history. Collectively....well, in large groups people are most definitely as dumb as bricks.

    Most people also need to quit reacting emotionally because that always causes more problems than it solves.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    I am waiting for jjstraka's "I told you so" on Trump.

    It was revealed during testimony that:
    - Majority of his wealth is from his late father. Most of his other businesses are funded through these trusts
    - He had/has ties to the Italian mafia early in his career
    - With that association he got involved with the Russian mafia. His properties around the globe received money from the Russian Mafia.
    - The Russian mafia also infiltrated organizations like the NRA.

    All these points are alleged, so expect to see Trump come out swinging.

    Can't wait for the right wing media to start spinning. "There was no ties to the Russian GOVERNMENT or Putin. This whole investigation is a sham and reached too far into his personal life." Then they'll drop Russia and just say "ties to Putin" as those two are interchangeable with the American public.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Eh, Obama was too softball to get anything accomplished with the political climate in America. If he was more resolute, I would give him a LOT more credit, but as it is, he was just Bush Jr. 2.0.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Matthieu said:

    I see we're lending the Bayeux Tapestry to UK for displaying. After lending Rodin's Thinker to China a few years ago and several artworkto Abu Dhabi, seems art is becoming a diplomatic tool.

    Well it was made here, about time it came home. ;)
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2018
    deltago said:

    I am waiting for jjstraka's "I told you so" on Trump.

    It was revealed during testimony that:
    - Majority of his wealth is from his late father. Most of his other businesses are funded through these trusts
    - He had/has ties to the Italian mafia early in his career
    - With that association he got involved with the Russian mafia. His properties around the globe received money from the Russian Mafia.
    - The Russian mafia also infiltrated organizations like the NRA.

    All these points are alleged, so expect to see Trump come out swinging.

    Can't wait for the right wing media to start spinning. "There was no ties to the Russian GOVERNMENT or Putin. This whole investigation is a sham and reached too far into his personal life." Then they'll drop Russia and just say "ties to Putin" as those two are interchangeable with the American public.

    The reason I have been so sure from the beginning is because most of what I already knew about Trump and Russia dates back to June or July of 2016, when everyone was still 90% sure that Hillary was going to win. "Collusion" is a word that has become relatively meaningless, as it is not a legal standard or law on it's own. If laws were broken, it would obviously be in regards to money. The reason the Russians would have been helping Trump in the first place is in regards to him laundering money through his real-estate and casinos, and the way they would have helped him would be with illegal contributions and efforts, all of which would have, by default, involved money.

    Trump has always been a crook. There is simply no way his financial shenanigans of the last 30+ years could possibly survive a serious look from law enforcement. I've said before what the basic outline is: Trump goes bankrupt in Atlantic City, and has no US sources to turn to for capital. He turns to foreign sources, most of which are in Russia. Russia facilitates cash flow and loans for him, and in exchange he launders Russian mafia and oligarch money through his real-estate properties. Since they already have him by the balls, they (perhaps unknowing to Trump himself) decide to use him to disrupt the US political system. People like Manafort, Flynn and Carter Page are put around him in the campaign. Meetings with shady Russian officials start taking place left and right. The FBI finds out about it, though the general public never learns. It's entirely possible the whole effort was just an attempt by Russia to damage Hillary Clinton's presidency. But then he somehow wins. Now Michael Flynn, who might have flown away free in event of a loss, is revealed by the acting Attorney General to have been susceptible to Russian blackmail within the first 30 days of the Administration. And then, as a result of Flynn, Trump goes off on his series of actions that may well lead to an obstruction charge.

    That's what took place. The details aren't filled in, but the outline has always been pretty clear. This story has always been about money laundering, accepting illegal campaign help from a foreign power, and obstruction of justice, which Trump brought upon himself. And now the House Fusion GPS testimony seems to indicate the first possibility of how the Russian money may have been laundered into the Trump campaign. The idea that it would be the NRA, who I have called a borderline domestic-terrorist organization for years, is just too fitting.
  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    edited January 2018
    Altair said:

    From a French perspective, I would have loved to see Emmanuel Macron and Barack Obama presidents at the same time, as they would have most likely worked really well together for the benefit of humankind and the protection of our planet. On the other hand having now Donald Trump as the worst US President ever allows Europe and France in particular to shine as the new world leader on many key issues, starting with climate change of course.

    I don't think the dynamic would have worked well. Macron is the kind of president who considers his election is a vote of confidence and will proceed with his programme regardless of the opposition. So far everyone, whichever they agree or disagree with his policy, says everything he pushes forward came from his election project.

    Barack Obama is a much more consensual guy.

    I think there is an explanation to this, Macron came from no major political establishment. He worked for the previous government but more as a contractor than a militant. In absolute everyone around him, in the government or the national assembly, owes his place to him. So he has lots of leverage and power over them.

    Barack Obama is a pure product of the political establishment of the USA, he was taken in a complex system of alliances and owed the system its place. So he had to "brush it the right way".
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    I noticed this cognitive functioning test said to be similar to the one Trump took. Although I'm not confident I'm functioning particular well, I still managed to answer the questions - seems you don't need to be a stable genius to perform well on this ...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Grond0 said:

    I noticed this cognitive functioning test said to be similar to the one Trump took. Although I'm not confident I'm functioning particular well, I still managed to answer the questions - seems you don't need to be a stable genius to perform well on this ...

    I completed the entire thing in less than 45 seconds, as could most people with a basic elementary school education.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2018
    Josh Marshall at TPM sums up why the potential government shutdown is the fault of the GOP and why they will get blamed in the way I would try to if I had the time and wasn't feeling under the weather:

    A new poll from The Washington Post shows that the public overwhelmingly blames Trump and the GOP for what seems to be an imminent government shutdown. 48% blame Trump and Republicans, 28% blame Democrats. A key indicator: independents fault the GOP 46% to 25%. None of this is a surprise. Those who are surprised are deluded or not paying attention. Every factor that plays into how the public views these questions makes the Republicans seem like the ones to blame.

    Perhaps the clearest driver is the simplest and least remarked: government shutdowns are part of the Republican brand. This is so basic and runs so deep that people ignore it. But it’s worth repeating: shutdowns are part of the Republican brand. The facts, in this case, show the GOP is at fault. But even if they didn’t, even if the facts showed the opposite, the GOP would still have a hard time because again: shutdowns are part of the Republican brand. They invented them as a policy and legislative cudgel. They’ve used them consistently under Democratic presidents. And because Republicans are generally inimical to the idea that government is a positive force in people’s lives and valorize dramatic and high stakes political gambits they have consistently embraced the concept and strategy of government shutdowns. Think about the Cruz/Obamacare shutdown of 2013. There was no hiding it. Shutdowns are awesome. They show our power. You’ll do what we want because we’ll make you. Shutdowns are part of the GOP brand. It’s hard to get around that.

    It is true that in this case, Democrats do have this lever to pull: the GOP’s need for 60 votes. But even that is the consequence of decisions they made to jam through their wildly unpopular tax bill. The larger reality is that Republicans control the White House, the House, and the Senate. Truth be told, because of earlier bad acts, they control the judiciary. They control everything. If you control everything, you are responsible for what happens. This is a basic reality of life. Blaming Democrats is the legislative/partisan equivalent of kicking the dog when something goes wrong in the house. The GOP controls everything. Of course, they’re responsible.

    There’s an ideological layer that people also under-appreciate. Dana Bash went on CNN yesterday and explained how Democrats were going to be under the gun from GOP ads claiming that Democrats were preventing millions of children from getting health care. This has little traction outside of hard GOP partisans because people know that it’s the Democrats and not the Republicans who favor spending money to expand health care coverage. This is just a reality. Claiming that Democrats really want to do this as opposed to not giving in to some kind of legislative blackmail just doesn’t pass the laugh test. Republicans face a similar hurdle on the very concept of shutting down the government. Democrats are the party of government, the party of services. They are never the ones who really want to cut off services. Again, claiming otherwise runs against the self-presentations both parties espouse.

    Finally, when you’re unpopular, people blame you. President Trump and the GOP are now deeply unpopular. It shows up in the polls and every by-election. Why this is the case is a different issue. The fact that it’s the case isn’t disputable. When you’re unpopular already and lack trust, when something goes wrong, you’re going to tend to get the blame.

    What all of this comes down to is that reality and logic conspire with ideology and party brand to ensure that Republicans will get the lion’s share of the blame for a shutdown. They’ll get the blame because it’s their doing.

    It’s worth noting before I conclude just what this is even about. The Democrats want two things: a resolution of the Dreamers issue and a reinstatement of CHIP. These are not new demands for programs. They were things that existed and then President Trump broke them. In the case of CHIP, it just didn’t get done. There was no positive argument for killing CHIP or resistance to the program. It was simply allowed to expire. Once it expired, Republicans started demanding things in exchange to bring it back. Trump definitely ran against DACA. But he broke it and has been all over the map in saying he either wants it back or doesn’t. Basically, he wants more concessions to create permanent protections for these young people.

    At the end of the day, it’s the same practice of legislative hostage-taking practiced by the GOP and President Trump. In this case, it’s combined with the chaos and incompetence which is the calling card of Trump-Era Capitol Hill. These are key things that the Democrats need to happen. If the GOP can’t even keep the government open on their own and need the help of the Democrats who have no power at all, they need to resolve these issues. Again, shutdowns are part of the Republican brand – and for good reason. This isn’t complicated.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Altair said:

    From a French perspective, I would have loved to see Emmanuel Macron and Barack Obama presidents at the same time, as they would have most likely worked really well together for the benefit of humankind and the protection of our planet. On the other hand having now Donald Trump as the worst US President ever allows Europe and France in particular to shine as the new world leader on many key issues, starting with climate change of course.

    From my Finnish perspective, I am a little cynical about charisma politicians over solid political backing for actual working purposes of the parliamentary democracy.

    Obama was crippled by the default polarizing American political system, and to me, Macron seems rather ego-centric and grandstanding compared with the fact that he does not have the traditional parliamentary backing.

    I do credit Obama for the Affordable Health Care Act - that was a great act of will fighting against the path of greatest resistance. And Macron should focus on creating a parliamentary backing without the ego business, I think.


    As a European citizen, I am not wistful about those purportedly good-looking selfie-friendly persons - but getting a German parliament shall be the most meaningful for Europe, and relative weakness of Merkel might prove fantastic.

    I mostly hope SDP could bring the perspective of the workers and public investment to German public finances.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108


    Most people also need to quit reacting emotionally because that always causes more problems than it solves.

    It is literally impossible to react unemotionally and achieve anything. In real life there are people with brain damage that negates their emotions (or at least access to them) and they have tremendous difficulty deciding stuff as simple as "What do I eat for lunch?" Emotion underlies everything people do, and pretending otherwise doesn't help.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861


    Most people also need to quit reacting emotionally because that always causes more problems than it solves.

    It is literally impossible to react unemotionally and achieve anything. In real life there are people with brain damage that negates their emotions (or at least access to them) and they have tremendous difficulty deciding stuff as simple as "What do I eat for lunch?" Emotion underlies everything people do, and pretending otherwise doesn't help.
    BelleSorciere chère - I hope you are somewhat wrong, because we have persons of social handicap or limitation even here in the fora, and being here should be something of an achievement.

    I know I have not been ideal once in this regard. With all my emotions. I feel bad about it still.

    More than people with brain damage, until quite recently, persons whom were considered mentally ill or handicapped or - even - socially unacceptable, were lobotomised. To impose this state of "unachievements."


    I am happy to be emotive, but I also do not like mob-sentimentality. Emotion should be moderated by reason, exposure to the world and education, I think. And oppressing the least gifted or handicapped in this is terrible, I think.

    I like your style, BelleSorcière - but I would appreciate if you would think about the injustice of lobotomies - where the victims became the "unachievers" - and take it from there.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    edited January 2018
    @TStael: I believe BelleSorciere was referring to very specific cases of brain damage (like this one) that have given neurologists insight into the role emotions play in decision making. I'm sure that no insult was intended toward neurologically atypical or impaired people.
    Post edited by joluv on
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    edited January 2018
    joluv said:

    @TStael: I believe BelleSorcerie was referring to very specific cases of brain damage (like this one) that have given neurologists insight into the role emotions play in decision making. I'm sure that no insult was intended toward neurologically atypical or impaired people.

    I doubt it not, because my impression of BS as a thinker and an opinion holder tends to be positive indeed, and hence emotive. ;-)

    But I also do not think that BelleSorciere is so uncomfortable to think as not to do so here.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2018
    It was just revealed that Tom Petty (much like Prince last year) died from an accidental overdose of opioid pain medication. In light of this news, it might be worth mentioning that Trump's declaration of an emergency in regards to the opioid crisis is set to expire on Wednesday. Aside from making that declaration, absolutely nothing has actually been done about it on any level. No resources or spending have been dedicated to the problem, and key health and drug posts in the government remain vacant.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    It was just revealed that Tom Petty (much like Prince last year) died from an accidental overdose of opioid pain medication. In light of this news, it might be worth mentioning that Trump's declaration of an emergency in regards to the opioid crisis is set to expire on Wednesday. Aside from making that declaration, absolutely nothing has actually been done about it on any level. No resources or spending have been dedicated to the problem, and key health and drug posts in the government remain vacant.

    I blame that on Hillary.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Balrog99 said:

    It was just revealed that Tom Petty (much like Prince last year) died from an accidental overdose of opioid pain medication. In light of this news, it might be worth mentioning that Trump's declaration of an emergency in regards to the opioid crisis is set to expire on Wednesday. Aside from making that declaration, absolutely nothing has actually been done about it on any level. No resources or spending have been dedicated to the problem, and key health and drug posts in the government remain vacant.

    I blame that on Hillary.
    Just trolling much - in view that drug abuse is a universal tragedy - or care to rationally attribute your blame?

    Or emotionally, if you wish, eh.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    TStael said:

    Balrog99 said:

    It was just revealed that Tom Petty (much like Prince last year) died from an accidental overdose of opioid pain medication. In light of this news, it might be worth mentioning that Trump's declaration of an emergency in regards to the opioid crisis is set to expire on Wednesday. Aside from making that declaration, absolutely nothing has actually been done about it on any level. No resources or spending have been dedicated to the problem, and key health and drug posts in the government remain vacant.

    I blame that on Hillary.
    Just trolling much - in view that drug abuse is a universal tragedy - or care to rationally attribute your blame?

    Or emotionally, if you wish, eh.
    Sorry for the satire. I just couldn't resist. She gets blamed for everything else...
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Balrog99 said:

    TStael said:

    Balrog99 said:

    It was just revealed that Tom Petty (much like Prince last year) died from an accidental overdose of opioid pain medication. In light of this news, it might be worth mentioning that Trump's declaration of an emergency in regards to the opioid crisis is set to expire on Wednesday. Aside from making that declaration, absolutely nothing has actually been done about it on any level. No resources or spending have been dedicated to the problem, and key health and drug posts in the government remain vacant.

    I blame that on Hillary.
    Just trolling much - in view that drug abuse is a universal tragedy - or care to rationally attribute your blame?

    Or emotionally, if you wish, eh.
    Sorry for the satire. I just couldn't resist. She gets blamed for everything else...
    I am a bit sorry about that. Persons do get killed by drugs, Petty plausibly not having been the most desperate nor naïve of them - while Jared, purportedly, is to resolve the US opioid problem.

    Is the son in law not the quite more the terrifying and true satire here - or you stick with Hillary?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2018
    Balrog99 said:

    It was just revealed that Tom Petty (much like Prince last year) died from an accidental overdose of opioid pain medication. In light of this news, it might be worth mentioning that Trump's declaration of an emergency in regards to the opioid crisis is set to expire on Wednesday. Aside from making that declaration, absolutely nothing has actually been done about it on any level. No resources or spending have been dedicated to the problem, and key health and drug posts in the government remain vacant.

    I blame that on Hillary.
    On that topic....here is Trump's favorite FOX News personality apparently staking out the woods in Chappaqua looking to.....what exactly?? Conduct a citizens arrest?? Say what you will about MSNBC or CNN, but this is just bizarro-world:
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    Balrog99 said:

    It was just revealed that Tom Petty (much like Prince last year) died from an accidental overdose of opioid pain medication. In light of this news, it might be worth mentioning that Trump's declaration of an emergency in regards to the opioid crisis is set to expire on Wednesday. Aside from making that declaration, absolutely nothing has actually been done about it on any level. No resources or spending have been dedicated to the problem, and key health and drug posts in the government remain vacant.

    I blame that on Hillary.
    On that topic....here is Trump's favorite FOX News personality apparently staking out the woods in Chappaqua looking to.....what exactly?? Conduct a citizens arrest?? Say what you will about MSNBC or CNN, but this is just bizarro-world:
    Sad. Attempting ambush journalism from this so called judge on a retired grandmother.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2018
    With one hour to go, barring a drastic change of events, the government will shut down on the eve of Trump's one-year anniversary in office. All the bluster, all the talk about the great deal-maker, after all the bullshit and tweets, it comes down to one simple fact: Republicans were handed total power over Washington, minority rule in a sense given the vote totals across the country. They control all 3 branches of government used to pass laws, they own all the committee chairs, and can pass or stop votes on anything they please as a caucus in both Houses of Congress. And when the rubber hit the road, it turns out they can't even pass ONE single, solitary budget. This is what you get when one political party has surrendered itself completely to cynical power grabs and a cult of personality. The proof is in the pudding. It turns that there was no hyperbole at all about the idea that a Donald Trump led Republican Party can't govern.

    It is breathtaking to see people who craved and attained total power turn around and try convince the populace that they don't actually wield that power. As if the Democratic Party is the only political entity in this country that has agency. When they are in charge, they are supposed to take blame, but when Republicans are in charge, Democrats are apparently supposed to stop them despite having no ability to do so, or they are equally to blame. Thankfully, for the reasons I've mentioned many times, no one who isn't already a Trump cultist is going to buy into that narrative, because it goes against the very basic fabric of our political divide, which is that Democrats believe in government programs and spending and that Republicans want to end or cut them. Remember this is all about a segment of the hard-right and the White House wanting to punish children who were brought to this country by their parents illegally through no fault of their own. Trump was even offered money for his wall, money that (shock!!) wasn't going to come from Mexico, but the US Treasury.

    What you have here is the clown-show that was predicted. And hey, if you are a person who believes we are better off without a functioning government, by all means, support the modern GOP. They have that corner of the market covered. If you believe even a LITTLE bit in the idea that a competently-run government is important to a stable society, for god's sake, never put these jokers in power again.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited January 2018
    The major sticking points for democrats are not unreasonable either, in my opinion. Trump broke DACA, then said he wanted a legislative fix, they want that fix. Republicans stopped funding Children's Healthcare they want that too.

    That's about it.

    All Republicans have done, they've done alone they haven't compromised. They've ignored Democrats and passed their tax cuts for the rich without public hearings in the middle of the night by simple majority. They've undone regulatory protections for American citizens including repealing Net Neutrality. They've tried by simple majority again to repeal obamacare twice and failed. They've completely failed at putting forward any policy that the majority of the country agrees with. Their tax plan which you'd think would be popular is not. Economy is doing well and that's usually good for the President but his ratings are in the toilet because he's so impulsive, mean and basically kind of nuts. Republicans have refused to say boo to Trump as he throws temper tantrums every day and runs the vital protections for the American people into the ground. They can't govern or make any compromises at all even with each other. You just can't run a country like that, you can barely run kids playground games like that for long.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2018

    The major sticking points for democrats are not unreasonable either, in my opinion. Trump broke DACA, then said he wanted a legislative fix, they want that fix. Republicans stopped funding Children's Healthcare they want that too.

    That's about it.

    Republicans refused to fund CHIP for months on end simply to use it as legislative blackmail at this moment. They are using those kids as hostages. And everyone knows that. No voter who can be swayed is going to look at what the Republicans did last year in regards to their attempts to take away healthcare from tens of millions of people and buy into the narrative that Democrats are the ones who don't want a government-funded Children's Health program. Again, it flies in the face of every reality we know about American politics.

    You're also going to hear alot of BS about needing 60 votes. It's not true. For one thing, there were 5 Senate Republican defections on their own continuing CR. For another, they can wave the 60-vote threshold at ANY TIME THEY WANT, just like they did for the tax bill. McConnell could wag his finger and make it so.

    Seriously, you let those 800,000 kids who have committed no crimes and voluntarily come out of the shadows have their legal status cemented so they can stop living every day of their lives in fear of being deported to a country they have never actually been to, and this goes away in an instant. 80-85% of the American public in polls supports doing this. That this can't be agreed to is mind-blowing.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Meanwhile in Canada:

    As mentioned prior, the Ontario Liberal party was subject to two criminal investigations and the second one just finished with a guilty verdict for the Premier's chief of staff.

    His crime was willingly deleting emails that were part of the public record about two cancelled power plants that cost Ontario Tax payers $1 billion dollars.

    He is being sentenced February 26th. Here is hoping he has to serve jail time as an example, not just in the prevention of destroying valuable data on decision making, but also on willingness to being the scapegoat for your parties decisions.

    Can't wait for the Ontario's next election. Hopefully this corrupt government can finally be removed from office.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited January 2018
    Shutdown.

    There's hard feelings in the air. Calm and compromise is needed. Not wild accusations and impulsive behavior.

    Think we might get that from a certain twitter user? And once the insults start flying won't that just make the other side dig in? Pretty sure insults never made anyone go like "gee, I guess you are right I am a bad guy!" Can Trump do anything but insult others and praise himself, well he hasn't shown that kind of self discipline so far.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2018
    Now we have details emerging about Schumer's meeting with Trump earlier this afternoon. Apparently, Schumer had agreed to massive military spending AND fully funding Trump's wall to get protections for the DACA recipients. He thought they had a deal. Then John Kelly (who is NOT the moderate force he has been portrayed as in the media, he is a hard-line zealot) and who the hell else knows got in Trump's ear afterwards and the deal fell apart. Anyone who even thinks to blame this on the Democrats has to answer one very simple question: how the hell can you negotiate with someone who changes their position based on the last person he had a conversation with?? And the kicker is Trump's main problem with the whole fiasco is that he is going to have to miss a party this weekend at Mar-a-Lago.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    TStael said:


    Most people also need to quit reacting emotionally because that always causes more problems than it solves.

    It is literally impossible to react unemotionally and achieve anything. In real life there are people with brain damage that negates their emotions (or at least access to them) and they have tremendous difficulty deciding stuff as simple as "What do I eat for lunch?" Emotion underlies everything people do, and pretending otherwise doesn't help.
    BelleSorciere chère - I hope you are somewhat wrong, because we have persons of social handicap or limitation even here in the fora, and being here should be something of an achievement.

    I know I have not been ideal once in this regard. With all my emotions. I feel bad about it still.

    More than people with brain damage, until quite recently, persons whom were considered mentally ill or handicapped or - even - socially unacceptable, were lobotomised. To impose this state of "unachievements."


    I am happy to be emotive, but I also do not like mob-sentimentality. Emotion should be moderated by reason, exposure to the world and education, I think. And oppressing the least gifted or handicapped in this is terrible, I think.

    I like your style, BelleSorcière - but I would appreciate if you would think about the injustice of lobotomies - where the victims became the "unachievers" - and take it from there.
    @joluv is correct.

    I agree that emotion should be moderated by reason. My point is more that emotion cannot be entirely excised without impairment.

    Lobotomies are a crime against humanity, I agree with that, although as joluv pointed out I wasn't talking about lobotomized people.

    FWIW, without going into detail, I'm mentally ill myself.
This discussion has been closed.