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Stealth/Invisibility wears off before attacking (Shadowstep bugs)

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Comments

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    Much appreciated, I'll give it a shot. I'm fine with those side-effects too, and I wouldn't try to backstab with 10 APR anyway.

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    edited October 2017
    @kjeron

    First try: I successfully backstabbed my target after SS without hiding during SS. It seems like you are still invisible a fraction of a second after SS, and if your timing is right you can pull it off.

    I repeated the action with not much trouble, though it's not very reliable, you have to be quick with your pauses. The original SS prevented this, I imagine, by setting APR to 0.

    Well, regardless hiding during SS is the only reliable way to backstab right after SS so it's fine if it can't be fixed.

    Post edited by HalfCelestial on
  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    edited October 2017
    I was able to stay invisible after backstabbing a couple of times after hiding during SS, though I'm not sure what is causing it.

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    edited October 2017
    I was able to replicate it, after hiding during SS and attacking, Stealth did not end. Only 1 APR.



    And I was able to backstab twice during the "leaving shadows" period as well. Definitely very doable with less than 10 APR, it seems. Damn.


  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135

    I was able to stay invisible after backstabbing a couple of times after hiding during SS, though I'm not sure what is causing it.

    I suspect these attacks had the empty feedback line without the "weapon ineffective" feedback? Despite an identical duration, they are somehow not ending at the same time.

    I was able to replicate it, after hiding during SS and attacking, Stealth did not end. Only 1 APR.

    That image is actually correct, the attacks with both feedbacks shouldn't break stealth/invisibility. Only the attacks without feedback should break invisibility, as they are the ones that can deal damage.

    I found another issue, not necessarily related to the previous ones: terminating invisibility during shadowstep is occasionally preventing further invisibility effects during the timestop effect. This version avoided that issue by providing immunity to the termination effect, but for some reason it wouldn't end properly at times.

    I'll experiment with it some more, but in the meantime, here's another approach, this one is identical in usage to the old version with a delayed Invisibility.

    HalfCelestial
  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    kjeron said:

    That image is actually correct, the attacks with both feedbacks shouldn't break stealth/invisibility. Only the attacks without feedback should break invisibility, as they are the ones that can deal damage..

    I was actually able to do it without that feedback. That is, a successful attack (no immunity to weapons, no empty feedback) that did not break invisibility.

    I'll give it a try, thanks.

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    edited October 2017
    Observations: with this version, I see the same behavior, *sometimes* the invisibility seems to activate just right *after* SS ends.

    However, no matter the apparent delay the enemy seemed to ignore me altogether after SS ended, and did not target me, like before, but the nearest member of the party.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135

    However, no matter the apparent delay the enemy seemed to ignore me altogether after SS ended, and did not target me, like before, but the nearest member of the party.

    Do they target you if there is no one else to target, or does the invisibility kick in fast enough?

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    edited October 2017
    I tried it will all my party members dead, and they did not target me, even though you can see clearly that I'm visible after SS, maybe for half a second or a second.

    Also, I wasn't able to attack in time before the delayed invisibility kicked in, so for backstabbing purposes it doesn't seem too problematic (perhaps I should try with more than 1 APR, to see if there is a difference).

    I always used the delayed invisibility as a cue to attack while IN the time stop effect -- which was perfect, because the attack always landed an instant after SS ended. I can't time it consistently when this unexpected delay happens, so perhaps it is possible to fail the backstab because of this apparent delay.

    Wish I had some way to see the seconds remaining before SS ends, it would make testing much less painful.

    Post edited by HalfCelestial on
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135
    edited October 2017
    I have managed to find some proof of your issue in my save files, even though I have been unable to visibly see it in game. Even through different opcodes, delayed effects are triggering up to 2/3 a second later than they should.

    With that in mind I have another approach to this. I have added a second, delayed Time Stop effect, with any luck it should inherit the same delayed extension as the invisibility effect.

    Edit: Reuploaded, files didn't copy correctly first time.

    HalfCelestial
  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    Thanks, I'll try it.

    Oh, by the way, I removed the "7eyes.2DA" file before trying that one, in case that is relevant.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135
    edited October 2017
    @HalfCelestial
    Try it now, the files didn't update correctly the first time.

    7EYES.2da is was only relevant for the one I packaged it with.

    HalfCelestial
  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    No difference that I could see.

    Also, I was actually able to attack before the delayed invisibility kicked in after SS, resulting in a regular attack, I went invisible after that.

    It was mostly luck, it's a very small window of opportunity.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135
    Well damn, sorry.
    I'm out of ideas at the moment.
    I'll try again this weekend, won't be free tomorrow.

    HalfCelestial
  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    It's okay, I appreciate your assistance.

    Please, let me know if you find something out then.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    Why not just make the Invisibility last one second shorter than the timestop? Like, 6 seconds. If it ends then yeah enemies might target you, but only a second before the action restarts. Might be an acceptable bit of weirdness under the circumstances.

    And if you're smart, you'll hide while invisible, and thus will stay hidden even when the Invisibility ends. And any attack will break that hiding, and there will be no leftover invisibility.

    Or am I not understanding things?

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    edited November 2017
    The delay @kjeron applied was quite convenient because it allowed me to successfully backstab an instant after SS ended (by ordering to attack as soon as the invisibility triggered).

    The timing was perfect in that respect, I didn't have to guess when it was going to end. It also made the backstab unavoidable in the sense that the enemy doesn't have the time to get away from you and thus make you fail the attack.

    But anyway, as it looks like that method is unreliable I'm fine with what you propose, it's what I did with the original Shadowstep: hide during SS, then pause quickly after it ends, then attack. I only wish I had some reliable way to tell when it is going to end. My biggest concern was the original bug I discovered, and that has been taken care of.

    And how about five seconds? Two seconds is enough to try to hide and attack reliably in the same manner. By this I mean that the loss of invisibility would tell me SS is about to end, of course. Or am I missing something?

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135

    I only wish I had some reliable way to tell when it is going to end.

    I've added a "ticking" timer (use both files).
    Time will restart on the 7th "tick".
    The invisibility is enough to get in a backstab, just don't attack until time restarts.

    HalfCelestial
  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    Actually SS always ends on the sixth tick. The ticks did not start until about 1.5 seconds had passed. It is variable, because sometimes SS ends as soon as the sixth tick appears, sometimes slightly later, but never on the seventh.

    Also sometimes it tells me "weapon ineffective" after SS ends. I also can see that abilities are still disabled a moment after SS ends, perhaps it has something to do with it.

    Plus, sometimes an eighth tick makes an appearance.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135
    I don't know if there is anything I will be able to do then, if the game cannot even accurately keep track of time. There were no delayed effects in that one. Something is disrupting effect duration, but I don't know what.

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    edited April 2018
    Hey @kjeron , could you make a version that adds an invisibility effect simultaneously with the time stop effect, but that only lasts for 5-6 seconds?

    That should be enough to avoid detection by enemies, plus adding the need to hide, if you want to come out of the Shadow Plane in hiding, to make things less easy. That also would suffice to avoid most problems with the last version.

    It could be interesting as well if you could add a massive boost to stealth while in the Shadow Plane. It makes sense to me, you should be able to hide there with no trouble at all no matter your skill, or whether it is day, night, or you're in the shade or not.

    As for the Weapon Immunity for everyone having a wrong timing, not sure what could be done. Maybe you could reduce it to 6 seconds? That way if it delays, it would probably match the 7 seconds of SS, and if it rushes, it doesn't matter, because I won't make the choice to attack before the end of SS, so in the end it works out.

    Under these circumstances, I think this weirdness is acceptable. Just thinking out loud, let me know what you think.






  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135
    edited April 2018

    Hey @kjeron , could you make a version that adds an invisibility effect simultaneously with the time stop effect, but that only lasts for 5-6 seconds?
    ...
    It could be interesting as well if you could add a massive boost to stealth while in the Shadow Plane.
    ...

    I don't mind, but let me know which of the features/forms from previous you want, it's been a while since I've looked at this, and I don't know which version you settled for.

    Regardless of what is done through, the Time Stop effect itself has a semi-random duration - there is no way to detect when exactly it will end, unlike other effects, so there will be always be some uncertainty.

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    I settled for the first version you offered, the one that activates an invisibility effect an instant before Time Stop ends (the problem was that it sometimes activated a bit after TS, instead of before).

    The idea in short is that you add a massive boost to stealth, something like a +100 bonus for the whole 7 seconds, and you reduce the invisibility and Weapon Immunity effect to 6 seconds (so no one will be immune after TS ends, regardless of how semi-random its duration might be).

  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 233
    Seems to be working quite well, thanks.

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