Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Swashbuckler dual classing

What levels do they actually get their bumps?

I’m thinking about a swashbuckler > wizard dual class solo character and trying to figure out when good cut off points to dual class are.

Comments

  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 424
    Well.. if you're doing it for the AC, it'll be lvl 1,6,11,16,21 etc..

    Max HP rolls stop at lvl 9, so to avoid mage hp that's a decent place to stop.. but you'll have gained just 2AC.

    If you are doing it for damage and/or hit bonus, then just don't bother. The extra attacks from a Fighter kit, fighter thac0 progression and grand mastery in weapon of choice will far outweigh any To-hit and Damage bonus a Swashie will ever get.

    So the question is really wether you want to be inferior in every conceivable way by choosing Swashie over Berserker - which would make you immune to damn near any monster/lich ability you can think of due to Berserk state.

    You could do it to open locks, but you'll have plenty of lvl 2 spells for that.. you could do it for traps, but you've got Delayed Fireball and Skull Trap for that.. although, regular traps are quite powerful and can hurt anything.


    So ya there you have it. Go Swashie for a few points of AC (entirely pointless due to mage protection spells) and the ability to set standard traps.

    gorgonzola
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 513
    Klorox said:

    What levels do they actually get their bumps?

    I’m thinking about a swashbuckler > wizard dual class solo character and trying to figure out when good cut off points to dual class are.

    For solo then you will probably want to go DEEEEEPPPPP into Swash before changing, get some Spike traps, UAI and Whirlwind's banked, perhaps change at 30 or 35. You'll earn so much XP solo that the Mage will have to wait a while to get back the Swash abilities, but with saved up scrolls and a plethora of powerful items it'll be not too bad, anything particularly nasty you can use WW's/Spike Traps since they are available before you level past the swash point.

    I did my last one at 45, lol, i still ended up capping Mage at 50 before the end of TOB :)

  • riomar2000riomar2000 Member Posts: 4
    I love that combination. I go with a small party, 4 usually, and i add another for quest purposes than change. It levels up quite fast. I often pick Jan and specialize him in traps.

    I usually duaI at 11 and go with 3 points in two weapons style and 2(only in ee) in katanas. Dak'kon's Zerth Blade(+2) in off-hand gives you 4 spells slot (lvl 1 to 4) and you can swith from main hand to Celestial's Fury(+3, blindness, lightning strike, Booming Thunder if fail saves vs. spell, 5% of eletrical damage) or Hindos's doom (+3, lesser restoration, which is really helpful against vampires). Maybe it's not a +4, but you do get a powerful -figther/+mage/+thief, able to survive in melee, even with poor preparations. While in transition I choose dagger/staff. I put my points in disable traps, open locks and steal, then the rest goes to hide in sahdows.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 311
    Khyron said:

    Well.. if you're doing it for the AC, it'll be lvl 1,6,11,16,21 etc..

    Max HP rolls stop at lvl 9, so to avoid mage hp that's a decent place to stop.. but you'll have gained just 2AC.

    If you are doing it for damage and/or hit bonus, then just don't bother. The extra attacks from a Fighter kit, fighter thac0 progression and grand mastery in weapon of choice will far outweigh any To-hit and Damage bonus a Swashie will ever get.

    So the question is really wether you want to be inferior in every conceivable way by choosing Swashie over Berserker - which would make you immune to damn near any monster/lich ability you can think of due to Berserk state.

    You could do it to open locks, but you'll have plenty of lvl 2 spells for that.. you could do it for traps, but you've got Delayed Fireball and Skull Trap for that.. although, regular traps are quite powerful and can hurt anything.


    So ya there you have it. Go Swashie for a few points of AC (entirely pointless due to mage protection spells) and the ability to set standard traps.

    In other words OP. Swashbuckler was made specifically to Dual class into Cleric.

  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 763
    edited May 2018

    In other words OP. Swashbuckler was made specifically to Dual class into Cleric.
    Please explain

  • realrufusrealrufus Member Posts: 2
    Khyron wrote: »
    Well.. if you're doing it for the AC, it'll be lvl 1,6,11,16,21 etc..

    Max HP rolls stop at lvl 9, so to avoid mage hp that's a decent place to stop.. but you'll have gained just 2AC.

    If you are doing it for damage and/or hit bonus, then just don't bother. The extra attacks from a Fighter kit, fighter thac0 progression and grand mastery in weapon of choice will far outweigh any To-hit and Damage bonus a Swashie will ever get.

    So the question is really wether you want to be inferior in every conceivable way by choosing Swashie over Berserker - which would make you immune to damn near any monster/lich ability you can think of due to Berserk state.

    You could do it to open locks, but you'll have plenty of lvl 2 spells for that.. you could do it for traps, but you've got Delayed Fireball and Skull Trap for that.. although, regular traps are quite powerful and can hurt anything.


    So ya there you have it. Go Swashie for a few points of AC (entirely pointless due to mage protection spells) and the ability to set standard traps.

  • realrufusrealrufus Member Posts: 2
    Is everyone forgetting use any item ability? far outweighs your thug berserker.

  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 424
    You won't get UAI, or any other rogue hla if you dual class away from it at lvl 9..

    gorgonzola
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 631
    edited December 5
    Yes, swashbuckler/mage is a combination that sounds better than it plays. Not that you can't win the game with it, you just don't need the swashbuckler's main benefit (AC) and you are throwing away the main synergy thief has with mage (being able to backstab at will by casting invisibility).

    However berserker/mage is *also* a combination that sounds a bit better than it plays, because you don't need the berserker's main benefit (immunities). Don't get me wrong, fighter/mage is a great combination, it just doesn't matter much a whole lot whether you go berserker/mage or vanilla fighter/mage.

    Post edited by jsaving on
    gorgonzola
  • smyth25smyth25 Member Posts: 170
    I'd disagree that the AC bonus is the swashbuckler's main selling point, their main boon is their additional pips in dual wielding and melee weapons. While their fighting capabilities are definitely not as strong as an actual fighter/mage, it still gives them an additional skill on the already fully-loaded tool belt of the thief/mage. What I like particularly about swashbuckler/mage compared to a thief/mage is that they remain strong even in late game, when backstabbing and invisibility become countered by enemies having backstab immunity/invisibility detection.

    If you crunch the numbers, the swashbuckler isn't too far off any other mage/warrior hybrid (fighter/mage, blade). A level 10 swashie's innate bonuses + proficiency bonuses will give them a total of +3 THAC0 and +4 damage (which is only -1 damage compared to Grandmastery bonus). Give them a speed weapon in their offhand and they'll have 3 APR (6 with improved haste). While their overall THAC0 is poor, I've never actually suffered much ill effect from it in the grand scheme, and it can also be improved with tenser's transformation.

    In terms of specific boons compared to fighter/mage, a level 10 swashie has 265 skill points, which allows them to have 95 in open locks and find traps, + points in either pick pockets or detect illusion. I'll admit, this is more useful in SCS, where pick pocket is useful with the increased gold demands from Gaelen and Corneil, or detect illusion against enemies with SI: Divination. I also prefer though to not have to use knock because I want the spell slots for mirror image/glitterdust/invisibility/web. Also, being a dual class means it can get single class mage level progression, so can transition into a caster role when necessary.

    The Swashbuckler/mage is overall defined by it's sheer versatility compared to other warrior/mage hybrids, and it's overall just very fun! It's definitely a good choice for a solo/duo game.

    gorgonzola
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,786
    usually if i dual a swash over to another class ( whether it be fighter, mage or cleric ) i like doing it at level 11 because not only do you get 3 traps per day instead of 2, but the strength of your traps increase at level 11, and to hit level 12 in the other classes only requires around a million XP which isn't all that much to be honest ( your swash if imported from bgee even without doing SoD ) will hit level 11 as soon as it leaves chateau irenicus

    that is of coarse if you are interested in using traps, if not, then usually level 10 is good enough

    gorgonzolasmyth25
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,991
    smyth25 wrote: »
    they remain strong even in late game, when backstabbing and invisibility become countered by enemies having backstab immunity/invisibility detection.
    true somehow for stabbing, even if many not boss enemies can still be stabbed and even some boss level one.
    but to be able to hide is shadows is really powerful trough all the game if the cloak of not detection is used, every mage that can true sight but not see trough invisibility will not only fail to detect you, but waste on you all his true sight memorizations.

    smyth25 wrote: »
    Give them a speed weapon in their offhand and they'll have 3 APR (6 with improved haste).
    while a F9->M will have 2 attacks from DW + 1 speed weapon + 1/2 from level and 1 from GM for a total of 4.5, 9 when improved hasted, better damage thanks to GM and better thac0.
    the swash->M is a better fighter then a T->M unkitted or or with a different kit, but does not compare to a dual from fighter, that end game can also use crom as OH weapon instead of the speed one as the better damage and thac0 he gets from 25 str is more beneficial then 1(2 ihasted) attack more as will miss much less frequently.
    smyth25 wrote: »
    In terms of specific boons compared to fighter/mage, a level 10 swashie has 265 skill points...............

    The Swashbuckler/mage is overall defined by it's sheer versatility compared to other warrior/mage hybrids, and it's overall just very fun! It's definitely a good choice for a solo/duo game.
    and this is the real point, the sense to dual a swash into mage, even if he looses from every side compared to a F->M as physical damage dealer he has some traps, some rogue skills and is capable solo or useful to the party, at least some parties, while being a really strong mage, can be the party main mage without problems, and with some physical damage capability.
    in a party with a bard (haer dalis?) that can cover the pick pocketing role, he can cover the same role of nalia or imoen, being better then them both at fighting and for the doors and traps work. in a party with nalia or imoen can focus on setting traps, dispel illusions and pick pocket, if haer dalis is not there, or he can focus on hiding and be useful, even if he can not stab, if only to waste enemy ts and give you the opportunity to start fights with a out of the view field bombing, without abusing meta knowledge on where the enemies are placed.

    but in a party with jan or hexxatt the F->M works much better, as all the swash can add as thief is made better by the proper thief and both mlee and ranged the dual from fighter is superior.

    smyth25
Sign In or Register to comment.