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BG EE Dragon diciple Solo run

Been few years since I logged in these forum. Today I would like some insight on the dragon diciple and charisma stat. I plan on doing multiple runs to farm tome+ and create a DD goddess. I'd like to know if there is a table, listing Spell progression and CHR. thank you.

Comments

  • HenryNYHenryNY Member Posts: 42
    I've been trying to write a guide about how to make a most powerful sorcerer out of Dragon Disciple, who can survive all traps (excluding trap-like devices) and all encounters without much metagaming needed. But seeing you are planning to play BG1, I guess I'm not of much help.


    Here I'd like to point out that:

    Sorcerer, being a class initially introduced with the release of SoA, is BY FAR the weakest of all BG classes: hit die = lowest of all classes, # of know spells = 1/4 of what most mages can learn, is unable to swap spells once learned (so if he learns a worst spell, he'll be stuck with it forever), lacks tactical flexibility (as some have claimed), etc. EE introduced DD as a kit of Sorcerer and officially describes DD as (more) powerful Sorcerers. But by the speculations of quite a number of players, DD may be okay on it own, but is definitely inferior to Sorcerer (vanilla) because the kit benefits can't compensate for the loss of one spell per level.

    So, in short:
    The weakest of ALL classes = Sorcerer

    And according to some discussions:
    Dragon Disciple < Sorcerer (vanilla) < Mage < Edwin (in the order of their "power")

  • EldmoreEldmore Member Posts: 22
    Thanks for the advice, I kind of knew what I got myself into. Do you know if there is any spell progression table ?

  • vyvexthornevyvexthorne Member Posts: 53
    Spell progression and casting tables can be found on this page. http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer

    Eldmore
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 676
    Eldmore said:

    Been few years since I logged in these forum. Today I would like some insight on the dragon diciple and charisma stat. I plan on doing multiple runs to farm tome+ and create a DD goddess. I'd like to know if there is a table, listing Spell progression and CHR. thank you.

    I would say you don't need to do multiple runs in the first place, because stats are only important for a dragon disciple at the very beginning, when your character can get one-shotted by a kobold. Once you have a few spells in your spellbook, stats become somewhat irrelevant, because they don't affect your spellcasting. (except for wisdom and wish spells, but that's BG2)

    As for picking up the right spells, generally I'm a fan of "whatever works for you". :smile: For me the most useful spell when soloing BG1 (and I have soloed both a dragon disciple and a mage, though the mage was a loong time ago) was invisibility. I'd disagree with the above post, however, because both mages and sorcerers can use wands. And frankly, wands is all you need to solo BG1 with relative ease - they are that powerful.

    Eldmore
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,944
    Although Charisma is nominally the primary stat for Sorcerers, it has no effect on their progression or casting.
    HenryNY said:

    The weakest of ALL classes = Sorcerer

    This is an unconventional opinion.

    EldmoreSomeSort
  • EldmoreEldmore Member Posts: 22
    edited May 6
    So far I've been using Shield + mirror image. I have a ring +1 So my AC drop to-2 atm. I am dagger and throwing dagger atm. The ranged weapon give me - 2 to tach0 and 2 attack per round.

    My Current stats are

    STR 18
    DEX 18
    CON 18
    INT 10
    WSM 9
    CHR 18

    I tried to run a Evil neutral but once I got my familiar, I couldn't carry it in a bag. I switched to a neutral Good. I can get the Robe of the Good Archmagi in High Hedge without fighting any npc.
    I'd like to get most of her stats in the 20s+.

    Post edited by Eldmore on
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    All of this information is scattered around the Wiki, but I find PlayItHardcore has the best presentation of all of the races, classes, kits, statistics, and progression charts. See here.

    The Dragon Disciple has a big disadvantage over the Sorceror in BGEE in that he gets one fewer spell cast per level. He has a big advantage over Sorceror (when soloing) in that he gets +1 constitution at level 5, which combined with the constitution tome is enough to get you to 20 constitution, aka "natural regeneration". (The fire resistance more comes into play in BG2, but it's possible late-game to get a pair of rings of fire resistance and hurl fireballs at yourself.)

    Regardless, if you know what you're doing Sorceror is widely considered the easiest solo, with Dragon Disciple not far behind. If you don't know what you're doing, it's still probably not going to be too much harder than any other solo unless you really bork the spell selection. :smiley:

    One question, though: is there any particular reason you're set on doing multiple run-throughs? I know you want the stat tomes, but if that's all, you could always use a character editor to just give yourself the extra points, or barring that, use the import/export trick to duplicate the tomes you find in a single run-through. I know everyone's cheese tolerance is a little bit different, so perhaps "playing through the game six times" just feels less exploity to you; I'm not judging, I was just curious.

    (I remember when I first played BG I was all set to do a multiple-runthrough character who got all stats to 25, but that zeal lasted about as long as it took me to discover the import/export trick and/or realize how boring trudging through the Nashkel mines was with a stupid-OP charname just to get another set of books.)

    EldmoreQuartz
  • HenryNYHenryNY Member Posts: 42
    joluv said:

    Although Charisma is nominally the primary stat for Sorcerers, it has no effect on their progression or casting.

    HenryNY said:

    The weakest of ALL classes = Sorcerer

    This is an unconventional opinion.
    Well, I dug 3 feet in the backyard of Mr. Baldur's and failed to unearth a class weaker than Sorcerer. :# Sorry, sir, maybe someone else could give it a try... please? ;)


    No kidding, this is actually a plain known fact, though to most ppl it doesn't deserve much attention. Unlike a lot of fast-paced games, an inherent greatest part of RPG gaming is the feature of quick save & quick reload. It is even considered as a greatest indisputable tactic for RPG power gaming, known among some BG players here as "Power Word : Reload." So, who cares about which class is weak or the weakest? When the 100th incarnation of a protagonist finally kills the end-game boss, who sadly is given only 1 life to live, we always hail as if it were the original protagonist - the one created at char creation screen - that defeat the game.

    To most, what matters is: Which are the most powerful/best/whatnot classes?



  • HenryNYHenryNY Member Posts: 42
    Eldmore said:


    My Current stats are

    STR 18
    DEX 18
    CON 18
    INT 10
    WSM 9
    CHR 10

    This a Dragon Disciple?!

  • EldmoreEldmore Member Posts: 22
    edited May 6
    HenryNY said:

    Eldmore said:


    My Current stats are

    STR 18
    DEX 18
    CON 18
    INT 10
    WSM 9
    CHR 18

    This a Dragon Disciple?!
    18 CHR, Yes

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,944
    HenryNY said:

    joluv said:

    Although Charisma is nominally the primary stat for Sorcerers, it has no effect on their progression or casting.

    HenryNY said:

    The weakest of ALL classes = Sorcerer

    This is an unconventional opinion.
    Well, I dug 3 feet in the backyard of Mr. Baldur's and failed to unearth a class weaker than Sorcerer. :# Sorry, sir, maybe someone else could give it a try... please? ;)

    No kidding, this is actually a plain known fact, though to most ppl it doesn't deserve much attention. Unlike a lot of fast-paced games, an inherent greatest part of RPG gaming is the feature of quick save & quick reload. It is even considered as a greatest indisputable tactic for RPG power gaming, known among some BG players here as "Power Word : Reload." So, who cares about which class is weak or the weakest? When the 100th incarnation of a protagonist finally kills the end-game boss, who sadly is given only 1 life to live, we always hail as if it were the original protagonist - the one created at char creation screen - that defeat the game.

    To most, what matters is: Which are the most powerful/best/whatnot classes?
    If you want a better understanding of the relative strengths and weaknesses of different classes, I suggest not reloading 100 times.

    OrlonKronsteenQuartz
  • Yann1989Yann1989 Member Posts: 92
    I think it's useless to have more than 16 Constitution for spellcasters

  • Yann1989Yann1989 Member Posts: 92
    edited May 13
    Grond0 said:

    Yann1989 said:

    I think it's useless to have more than 16 Constitution for spellcasters

    One of the best items in BG1 (and deep into BG2) for an arcane caster is the Claw of Kazgaroth - so long as you have a constitution of 18 to allow you to put it on without a HP penalty. For a dragon disciple it's also possible to push constitution up to 20 and activate regeneration. That's handy when playing solo as it lets you run away from combat and heal damage up before the possibility of a travel ambush.
    Oh interesting! The claw of Kazgaroth seems to be powerful indeed, and I didn't know regeneration could activate with a non-warrior class.

    Edit : I might even be tempted to give the claw of Kazgaroth to my Xzar

    Grond0StummvonBordwehrOrlonKronsteen
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Grond0 said:

    Yann1989 said:

    I think it's useless to have more than 16 Constitution for spellcasters

    One of the best items in BG1 (and deep into BG2) for an arcane caster is the Claw of Kazgaroth - so long as you have a constitution of 18 to allow you to put it on without a HP penalty. For a dragon disciple it's also possible to push constitution up to 20 and activate regeneration. That's handy when playing solo as it lets you run away from combat and heal damage up before the possibility of a travel ambush.
    Not to mention the fact that sorcerors just don't have many places to put their stat points, anyway. They don't have a primary stat for spellcasting, (though they do still need 9 INT to use wands/scrolls), so they can do things like max Wisdom solely to boost their Wish spells, or add an extra two points to Constitution just to equip a specific item or try to hit regen. 18/18/18/9/18/3 only takes a roll of 84, which is super quick and easy.

    Grond0
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,772
    >Sorcerer weakest class
    >...whut?

    They're strong, but as @SomeSort said, you have to have spell knowledge beforehand. I often take time researching and develop an entire list of spells that I'll be taking before I even start a Sorcerer run, solo or otherwise.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • ElendarElendar Member Posts: 831
    HenryNY said:


    So, in short:
    The weakest of ALL classes = Sorcerer

    One of the most powerful classes, if not the most powerful, is what you're trying to claim is the weakest?

    Only broken combinations such as a Fighter/Mage (dual or multi) or Berserker-->Cleric even come close to the power of a sorcerer.

    Also, in Icewind Dale, I'd take the dragon disciple over the regular sorcerer every time. That extra AC is nice but the fire resistance, coupled with Protection from Fire spell, means you can wade into huge armies of monsters by yourself and drop a fireball or two at your feet to kill them all, without taking a single bit of damage to yourself. Because piddly Cold Wights can't hurt a sorcerer with Spirit Armor, Stoneskin and Mirror Image cast on himself.

    Quartz
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