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Is TNO the most powerful being in D&D universes?

MonoCanallaMonoCanalla Member Posts: 286
And I am talking towards end of the game. Although gods might be out of the question. I don't have enough deep knowledge to compare him to Elminster, Bigby, or any of those lich kings, but I have reasons to believe he overpowers them. In any cases, I cans't picture any kind of PC from an D&D game being more powerful than him.

Post edited by MonoCanalla on

Comments

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263

    In any cases, I cans't picture any kind of PC from an D&D game being more powerful than him.

    Lothar and the Lady of Pain beg to differ.

    Proont
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 625
    edited December 2017
    Was Lothar really that big outside his ability to overcome the Nameless immortality? But then again a lot of objects were capable of that. Wasn't he more of a scholar with a ton of knowledge?

    I haven't read a lot of Forgotten realms novels, but as far as I can tell power levels.. aren't particularly consistent? At the very least the D&D adaptations don't seem interested in being consistent, nor do I expect them to be.

    MotB makes a strong case for a really powerful PC though, but it's not canon of course.

    Post edited by batoor on
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,175
    i feel game wise. it's a toss up between tno and an evil charname in motb.

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,770
    Is TNO technically an undead?

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,619
    TNO's unique state resembles more an amnesic 'avatar' of a god-like being that merely returns to the source when killed - only to reappear short time later with his memories erased, again.

  • MonoCanallaMonoCanalla Member Posts: 286
    Also, take the mage level for TNO with those character stats to a more complete rolebook like the one of ToB...

    I'd think TNO is just lacking the mage spellbook and the equipment that characters like the spawn of Bhaal has access. But still. That souldn't make the difference, as TNO just needs a trip to Toril to make things even.

    But I wish I have more knowledge about powerful characters in Forgotten Realms, or those powerful mages from Greyhawk to be able to judge.

  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 501
    I've got another issue. Why is he not mentioned anywhere beside the game themselves? Surely he should be an asset given how powerful he is.

    Or maybe he willed himself out of existence?

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,691
    Did you know that there is no experience cap in Planescape Torment? The Nameless One can potentially reach over level 100. This might seem like an oversight, but it actually isn't. There is a part of the game that recognizes if you are at a ridiculous level: the Transcendent One. The game spawns different Transcendent One creatures depending on how high level the Nameless One is.
    • The weakest Transcendent One appears if the Nameless One is level 18 or lower.
    • A stronger form appears if the Nameless One is between levels 19 and 33.
    • An even stronger form appears if the Nameless One is between levels 34 and 66.
    • A yet stronger form appears if the Nameless One is between levels 67 and 89.
    • The strongest Transcendent One appears if the Nameless One is at least level 90.
    By the way, here are the stats of the version of the Transcendent One for when you're at least level 90:


    (By the way, this Transcendent One may be another contender for the most powerful being)


    What this means is that the idea of the Nameless One potentially being a level 90 character is an idea that the developers entertained.

    Gusinda
  • MonoCanallaMonoCanalla Member Posts: 286
    Arthas said:

    I've got another issue. Why is he not mentioned anywhere beside the game themselves? Surely he should be an asset given how powerful he is.

    Or maybe he willed himself out of existence?

    You know, when you have INT twentysomething and are THAT powerful...

  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 501
    Issue is that playing the pawn in a war wouldn't be the best (and logical) outcome.

  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 357
    Apart from the obvious fact of not being able to die I dont see how a ps:t TNO would be able to defeat your ToB character.

    If TNO had access to the spells, abilities and weapons of ToB that would be a different thing, though.

    Unless I am forgetting anything important.

  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 357
    Arthas said:

    I've got another issue. Why is he not mentioned anywhere beside the game themselves? Surely he should be an asset given how powerful he is.

    Or maybe he willed himself out of existence?

    I dont think PST is canon. They made BG canon only after years of BG having been more sucessfull than the written rulebooks themselves. PST was never as sucesfull as BG so my guess is it isnt canon. Besides, it is in the planes, and the planes have been butchered on every other edition.

  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 364
    In the Planescape canon the Lady of Pain should be the most powerful. Gods, archdevil, demon princes and high rank celestials are also basicly immortals and certainly tougher bastards than the nameless one.

  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 364
    edited August 19
    And of course never mind the tarasque.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 879
    edited August 19
    From a lore perspective, within the Planescape setting, the Lady of Pain is uncontestedly the most powerful being. She was able to kill Aoskar with a single thought, and she is able to prevent even the most powerful deities from entering Sigil (which gives her power on a comparable level to Ao of the Forgotten Realms setting). She's so powerful that she isn't even stat-ed out anywhere in official source material to the best of my knowledge.

    From a mechanical perspective, 2nd edition didn't have real rules for epic level adventuring past a certain point, and certainly did not have rules to address being level 90. Even then, I'd say that Transcendent One is probably statistically more powerful than TNO (discounting of course the epic level spells masquerading as level 7 spells). The level 90+ Transcendent One has an effective health pool of almost 4,000 hit points for his weakest resistances (physical damage), which is more than 13 Watcher's Keep Demogorgons combined. To take him down, you'd need more than 22 rounds of 5 critical hits per round with a Celestial Fire (assuming all critical hits deal max double damage), which I'd describe as rather unrealistic.

  • MonoCanallaMonoCanalla Member Posts: 286
    edited August 19
    In my post, I left gods out of the question.

    Now, please consider the level cap Planescape:Torment has as non canon. It’s rather stupid. In a realistic sense, this guy can’t pretend to earn level 90 by farming the same kills over and over. I don’t know 4th and 5th D&D editions, but earning epic xp should be conditioned to new variables. Killing a thousand goblins in a day should give you that much experience? TNO is very powerful as a narrative mechanism in a particular story, but I defend that we could consider him a 20-30 level character in the D&D universe as canon. I love the story of the game so much, I’d like to consider him as a legit real player in the D&D Hall of Fame.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 879
    edited August 19
    4th edition has a rather hard level cap of 30 (if I remember correctly, haven't touched it since 5e was released), and 5th edition has a hard level cap of 20 (with progression beyond level 20 handled in the form of boons that give various minor-moderate abilities).

    If we're comparing to other PCs that are permitted to reach equivalent levels, then TNO is no more powerful than a Mage of a similar level, especially considering his lack of access to gear. A semi-optimized Sorcerer or Mage Bhaalspawn would probably wipe the floor with the most optimized TNO of an equivalent level. If TNO is permitted to reach level 30 in 2e rules, then he is on par with characters like Elminster and mid- to endgame ToB Bhaalspawn.

  • MonoCanallaMonoCanalla Member Posts: 286
    That was my question. Now the Bhaamspawn is another matter. That’s Abdul guy is the cannon Bhaalspawn and no way he is as powerful as our PCs in ToB. Also, what about a canon Edwin, Viconia, etc... post ToB? Lol.

  • DorcusDorcus Member Posts: 199
    I've read a lot of the Planescape books, and my pet theory is that dealing with fated heroes like The Nameless One is just part of your everyday average occurrences in Sigil. The books take the attitude that everybody is quite jaded by heroes of impossible destiny. In fact, epic heroes that are completely unfamiliar with The Planes are seen as total rubes or country bumpkins. You get used to life in The Cage. In fact, it wasn't until all the Factions collapsed that life there was noticeably different, but even then many people went right back into their daily routines as if nothing much happened.

  • DorcusDorcus Member Posts: 199
    edited August 27
    The supernatural taken as mundane and the apathy therein is a huuuge part of the setting and I see no reason why that wouldn't affect The Nameless One too. My point is that Planescape: Torment is one of the countless stories set place in Sigil and while the events of the game itself have great gravitas within the confines of the game, they probably weren't as life shaking for most in the setting as they'd seem.

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