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bg2 low level challenge (completed)

bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
After 20+ bg2 playthrough with many different mods, I can say I know the ins and outs of almost all of the game contents. I'm not as interest in the other rp challenges where if my main character dies (sometime I make a stupid mistake), I have to restart over in the beginning of the game. I think another tactical challenge is to force myself to play at a low level in the entire game. Is it possible to defeat irenicus, kangaxx or demogorgon w/ a lvl 7 party? I think this game is fun because you are forced to try new strategies due to having little to no access to higher level spells (limited number of scrolls for mage, no higher level spells for priest) and the party is very fragile throughout the game. Resource planning becomes even more important and certain npcs are more well equipped in some situations.

To play this challenge, the only rule is that you can never click on the level up button. You may max your levels in bg1, import to bg2 and abide to this challenge. I wouldnt start this challenge in bg1 because you simply dont have enough hp to survive (you will die from irenicus's animated torture before you start bg2!)

I think the easiest class is the barbarian, since you roll d12 per level and the barbarian rage gives so many immunities. For party, I think keldorn is a must for his dispel magic and true seeing. Viconia for highest level cleric, Jan/Imoen for thief skills, Edwin for mage spells and the last slot goes to either Korgan, Minsc, Mazzy or Valygar depending on the situation.





Post edited by bbear on
lolien
«1345

Comments

  • Ulfgar_TorunnUlfgar_Torunn Member Posts: 169
    Low level games can be interesting and challenging, forcing the player to use novel tactics to overcome impossible odds. Unfortunately, it also means exploiting bugs, AI misbehaviors and overpowered spells/abilities.

    Low level BG2 could be a lot of fun, but I don't think it would work. In games where a low level playthrough are appropriate characters can acquire powerful spells and abilities independent of their levels. It is the combination of these abilities which make a low level game possible.

    In Dungeons and Dragons there is a lack of level independent abilities. Without enough levels a warrior will never hit the opponent, and a spellcaster will not have the proper spells at their disposal. With that said, I don't think a low level playthrough of Baldur's Gate is plausible.

    However, you seem to want to try this, so consider making an Elven Mage/Thief with maxed out pickpocket. Steal whatever items you need to acquire invisibility potions to flee unnecessary combat. When a mandatory battle is met, use scrolls and wands to defeat the enemy, exploiting as much summoning, area of effect, and invisibility cheese as needed.

    Good luck with your endeavor, and tell us how it goes.

  • KenKen Member Posts: 226
    A new and interesting gameplay.. I would probably watch it

  • OperativeNLOperativeNL Member Posts: 146
    ... I cannot imagine this to be possible. Not at level 7! This is madness!

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    I dont know how to upload images...so I just give a summary of my current game.

    I choose Half Orc Barbarian. Barbarian is a decent class because he rolls d12 per level for hp, he is immune to backstab and has the ability that grants him temporary immunity to a bunch of nasty status (but not web, imprisonment or domination sadly.) After like 5 minutes of rolling, the barbarian found a score 89 and has a whopping 131 hp!

    Str 19
    Dex 18
    Con 19
    Int 16
    Wis 14
    Cha 3

    I put 2 proficiency pts each on katana, flail and 2 weapons style. Celestial fury and the flail of ages will be my weapons for most of the game. This will be my only tank and the rest of the party will fight at range.

    I forget how vanilla irenicus dungeon is so easy. I've been playing the tactics mod for half a dozen times and the duegar battle just makes me laugh. I grab all the wands (plan to sell them later and buy them back for a lot of charges), the potions, the 2 handed sword+2, and the helmet of balduran. For the 2 handed sword+2, apparently I can pickpocket it out from the djinni (he wont go hostile after several failures). Saves me a lot of time from poor ai path finding. I really hate how some npcs will go around a big circle, come back and then go to the destination.

    After escaping the dungeon, I went straight to the circus to rescue Aerie. After that, I went straight to the seven den and liberated some equipments. I silenced the mage and the familar and they decide to melee me blocking everyone else behind them at the doorway. I decided to stop after this battle since I need to plan what to do next.

    Currently, I have about 5000 gold. I want to buy the girdle of hill giant, the bracers 3 and 4 ac, the robe of vecna and the shield of balduran. My intermediate concern is finding a better weapon for my tank. Either buy the +1 katana or go straight to the de'An keep for the flail of ages.

    Also, I need to recruit stronger characters. I plan to dump Jaheira since she is a terrible fighter and has proficiency points on clubs. Yoshimo only has 60 pts on open lock and I will replace him w/ Jan. Aerie is very squishy, but I'm not sure I want to replace her w/ edwin because she can cast both lv4 cleric and mage spells.

    lolien
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    I think this pretty much confirms that bg2 gives double first level hp at the beginning of the game. Your hp is 12 more than should be possible.

  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    edited October 2012
    Cool challenge. I doubt it is possible, especially as you decided to go caster-heavy (melee characters are more useful unleveled, as they are more gear-dependant than casters that basicly only gain power through leveling).

    I'd like to see how you deal with the dragon encounters and the lichs without access to the higher spellbreak magics.
    Awong124 said:

    I think this pretty much confirms that bg2 gives double first level hp at the beginning of the game. Your hp is 12 more than should be possible.

    I really hope this gets implemented to BG1. It's simply stupid as hell that - if you are an unlucky bastard - you start with less HP than let's you survive a level 1 magic missile.

  • kiroskiros Member Posts: 119
    Hah, I would love to see a "lets play Baldur's Gate 2 Low level No reload challenge" on youtube.

    Ken
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited October 2012
    kiros said:

    Hah, I would love to see a "lets play Baldur's Gate 2 Low level No reload challenge" on youtube.

    nah, luck is an element of gameplay. Sometime luck will go against you and you are dead. A good strategy can reduce the impact but can never eliminate it.

    Reloading is ok for battles if I can improve gameplay the next time I play it (ex: i change my strategy when I know I will get ambush).

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Round 2

    Complete 1st and almost 2nd level of watcher's keep. At the entrance of 1st level, I was ambushed by vampiric mist and crimson death. The crimson death used level drain, but luckily my barbarian had temporary immunity against that. Man, they sure hit pretty darn hard. Even after several buffs, all my summons meat shields died in the first round and my only tanking barbarian got hit a lot. Good thing I saved up 30+ potions and many were put in good use.

    My party consists of lv 7 barbarian, lv 7 minsc, lv 10 yoshimo (for some reason he is at this high level), lv 7/lv8 jan, lv 7/ lv7 aerie and lv 8 viconia. Minsc, yoshi and viconia have range thaco of 9, aerie has 12 and jan has 14. After 3 holy smites, 5 magic missiles and the ring of ram, the crimson shadows were finally dead.

    Another challenging battle was fighting the guardians because each statue has a ton of hp. I exploited the narrow doorway and the admantine golem blocked most of his comrades from entering. After this battle, I received the +4 scimitar and +3 bastard sword but sadly no one had proficiency pts in those weapons.

    The monsters on second level were slightly harder. I was ambushed by desert trolls in the fire room (i always thought there were 2 fire giants in there.) Proceeded to the wind chamber in the north and my tank got gang up by a bunch of air elementals. After the wind elementals, my party breezed through the level. I no longer feared crimson deaths because they could not hurt my flesh golem summon.

    The demon at the gate is simply out of my class. I believe it has 95% physical resistance and 100% magic resistance, and my characters cannot even hit him! Occasionaly Minsc would yell about critical hit but did 1 measly damage. Also, it has regeneration and can always hit my tank. I decided to stop there and return when I have better equipments.

    It turns out Anomen and Nalia are not so terrible in this low level challenge game. Anomen is a lv 8 priest (just like viconia!) and lv 7 fighter with 86 hp (compared with viconia's 42hp). If I improve him, he just misses the 1 extra lv3 and lv 4 spell that viconia possess. Nalia is at lv 9 mage lv 4 thief and she has access to lv 5 spells (Jan, Imoen and Aerie only has access to lv 4 spells). I still do not know what level edwin is going to be at. If he is lvl 8 or below, I may just consider using nalia over edwin. Korgan is at lv8 and has 100 hp and he may become my 2nd tank.

    lolien
  • kiroskiros Member Posts: 119
    edited October 2012
    Luck is definitely a factor, there are no guarantees of success.
    I remember reading about an individual soloing the Improved Anvil mod with a blade using the no reload challenge.
    Considering the difficulty of the mod, this guy is my idol.
    http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/182/index/3120942/59

    Post edited by kiros on
    lolien
  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    Are you playing on standard rules or easy settings? You obviously get max hp each level, so I assume you play easy?

  • JaxsbudgieJaxsbudgie Member Posts: 600
    Interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing screenshots, the way I do it is upload them to Photobucket and then choose the HTML code link to paste here.

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643

    Awong124 said:

    I think this pretty much confirms that bg2 gives double first level hp at the beginning of the game. Your hp is 12 more than should be possible.

    I really hope this gets implemented to BG1. It's simply stupid as hell that - if you are an unlucky bastard - you start with less HP than let's you survive a level 1 magic missile.
    That would only be possible if you're a mage, or if you have such low CON that you get a penalty on HP.

  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    edited October 2012
    Awong124 said:


    That would only be possible if you're a mage, or if you have such low CON that you get a penalty on HP.

    One mage meets the other. It's about who pulls the trigger first. :/

    EDIT: That's why most other D&D games start at level 2 or 3 and grant the player the first level directly in the tutorial (Neverwinter Nights 1+2, Icewind Dale 1+2, Pool of Radiance 2). Level 1 is simply stupid in D&D.

    swnmcmlxi
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180

    Are you playing on standard rules or easy settings? You obviously get max hp each level, so I assume you play easy?

    Now you mention it, I check that I have been playing on normal difficulty. I do get max hp per level and the monsters do 3/4 damage. Either way, i thought bg2 sets hp at max level regardless of difficulty. Regardless, it probably would not make much difference anyway since I use one tank and I have an abundance of potions.

    lolien
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    bbear said:

    Round 2

    The demon at the gate is simply out of my class. I believe it has 95% physical resistance and 100% magic resistance, and my characters cannot even hit him! Occasionaly Minsc would yell about critical hit but did 1 measly damage. Also, it has regeneration and can always hit my tank. I decided to stop there and return when I have better equipments.

    Actually, the demon battle at 2nd level of watcher's keep should be easy. All I need to do is to spam lower magic resistance x6, then magic missile him to death. Unless he is an ass who has immunity against lvl 1 spell.

    lolien
  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    Why did you go to Watcher's Keep right away? Even if you aren't going to level your characters I would think you would go after the best armor/weapons/potions you can get. They will be an even bigger factor in your game.

  • styggastygga Member Posts: 467

    ... I cannot imagine this to be possible. Not at level 7! This is madness!

    Madness.......? THIS...... IS...... FAERUN!!!!!!!!

    Vintrastormlolien
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,259
    i think this is completely do able for SoA at least, cant wait to see what happens when you get to abizagal with level 7 characters where he is doing 78 damage a hit with 10 attacks per round that cant miss(have fun surviving that) and plus i believe melissan kills anything instantly that has 8 hit dice or less, so have fun with that one as well....... but anywho, what i would do is make a whole team in bg 1 ( 3 gnome fighters that will kit over to beserkers) have a level 8 cleric, a level 7 fighter dual class over to a thief that will hit level 8 and then have a level 9 wizard so in bg1 he can cast breach to cancel out mantles and weapon protections, kangaxx is easily killable with a team that low, protection from magic scroll and someone with a staff of the ram and sling of everard and boom he's down, demogorgon i dont think will be possible because he uses storm of vegence which instantly slays any level 8 characters and lower ( but i also have the harder demogorgon patch so yours might be different) i've killed firkraag with a team that low before, well actually level 9 because that was the lowest i could be the time i got to him, so that should be possible, all in all, i can actually see SoA being doable for this, but ToB, might be a little on the hard side, i have played ToB games where i start with 6 fighters then dual class the last 3 into a cleric/thief/mage and that makes for a fun experience, so i would be curious to see how well your ToB play through goes, oh and irenicus will be easily killable with a mage in the underland if he wears a certain item that makes them virtually invincible against all mages, which can be found in the stinky fish city.......... and if i threw in some spoilers there i apologize i dont know how to hide them and such

    lolien
  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    edited October 2012
    The mirror coat was heavily nerfed in one of the latest BG2 patches, so basicly it doesn't make you invincible against mages anymore.

    The gatekeeper demon is resistant to everything because this is how the encounter works. Depending on the color it takes, it gains a different weakness (check out the room cycle to know each weakness).

    When its red, hit is with cone of cold, when its blue, hit it with flaming arrows, etc.

    lolien
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    if youre playing unmodded vanilla its possible to beat everything, too many exploits.

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited October 2012
    round 1 reboot

    As Zwiebelchen pointed out earlier, I was unaware playing at a slightly easier level at normal difficulty. So this time I restart the game using AD&D standard rule (one exception...when scribing scrolls, I get to lower the difficulty. This is done so that I can save time playing instead of reloading and cursing the game :)

    This time around, I roll a 88 stat character w/ the following stats:

    image

    My half orc barbarian's hp is 112 (instead of 131 before). This game was played similarly as my last playthrough in chateau irenicus, except something unexpected occured. This time Minsc was held hostage by the evil dyrads! I refused to rescue the acorns and the dyrads charmed Minsc. How dare they! After retrieving the acorns and liberating minsc, I did the sensible thing.... I Threw Them (acorns) On the Ground. Of all the bg2 games I have played, I never knew this can happen. I guess the game can still surprise me in some way every game.

    image


    I made some changes to my party. I kicked out Yoshi and Aerie and replaced them with Anomen and Nalia. Jan drank 2 potions of master thievery and went to streamline the shop inventories. I took only what I needed (mace+2, shortbow+2, sling+2, bullets+2, arrows+2) and was not trying to make a fortune. My wands now have 50 charges.

    With these equipments, I went to get the celestial fury. The demon on the ground floor of the guarded compound was tough to hit. My npcs were rolling 18s and they still miss (on top of the protection against evil buff!) After some more buffings that I usually dont bother with in the regular game (chant, bless, aid), the demon slowly and finally died. For the real challenge on the 2nd floor, my characters hit and run, luring a few opponents at a time to the ground floor. My summon meat shields were waiting and occupying them as my party pummeled them with arrows and bullets. Beside the celestial fury and the full plate+1, I think another treasure was the wand of paralyzation. Now I have 50 charges of stun!

    I stopped here for round 1. Now I need to decide what to do next. Should I proceed the storyline or continue doing side quests? The power amulet is a nice item against level drain monsters and perfect for Anomen since he has a good melee thaco. The problem is that I dont have access to chaotic commands and vampires dominated (all npc priests are lvl 8 or lower). I guess I will be using the protection against undead scroll and whack them to oblivion, which defeats the purpose of getting the power amulet.

    Valygar may be a good addition to my party. I havent met him yet but I suspect he has good range thaco. This goes along with my strategy of 1 character tanking and kiting while the rest fighting at range.

    Post edited by bbear on
    Moomintrolllolien
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180

    The mirror coat was heavily nerfed in one of the latest BG2 patches, so basicly it doesn't make you invincible against mages anymore.

    The gatekeeper demon is resistant to everything because this is how the encounter works. Depending on the color it takes, it gains a different weakness (check out the room cycle to know each weakness).

    When its red, hit is with cone of cold, when its blue, hit it with flaming arrows, etc.

    Interesting information. I didnt know that it has shifting elemental weakness. I always thought that was the aesthetics.

    About the cloak of cheese, I really hate the animation. That is the reason I never use it in my games.

    lolien
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Roller12 said:

    if youre playing unmodded vanilla its possible to beat everything, too many exploits.

    I agree. Even in the tactics mod, there are still tons of exploits. Just because monsters get a bunch of buffs does not mean they fight intelligently. This is the way how the ai was designed.

    lolien
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180

    Why did you go to Watcher's Keep right away? Even if you aren't going to level your characters I would think you would go after the best armor/weapons/potions you can get. They will be an even bigger factor in your game.

    I was motivated to acquire the potion bag and ammo belt. Also, good equipments can be found in watcher's keep. Arrow+3, Bolt+3, Bullet+3 are found on the first level of watcher's keep. Although I admit I should have acquired better armors and melee weapons for my tank. My tank only has a normal katana, a flail, the mail of the dead and the helmet of balduran from irenicus dungeon.

    lolien
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    sarevok57 said:


    ....
    demogorgon i dont think will be possible because he uses storm of vegence which instantly slays any level 8 characters and lower ( but i also have the harder demogorgon patch so yours might be different)
    ....
    i can actually see SoA being doable for this, but ToB, might be a little on the hard side
    ....

    I guess I have to see how far I can go with my game. I agree that SOA should be doable with a low level party. TOB may be very tricky or impossible to beat.

    About demogorgon, I only need to worry my low level party's ability to hit him. In my regular playthroughs, I just summon a few lv 7 m swords and they are immune to all demogorgon's attacks while my party shoots him at range. Another problem is reaching to the lowest level. My low level party must overcome tough ambushes and battles before the chance of meeting demogorgon.

    lolien
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,259
    the demogorgon i have has 390 HP, -15 AC (-19 with AoFD) and regenerates 10 HP every 2 rounds i believe? plus some damage resistance as well, good thing the game has tons of wands of spell striking, and you are definately going to want to keep some potion of absorbtions around, and maybe some girdles of bluntless and PFE 10' radius, so lets see, if you use your barbarian with that white dragon scale+6 girdle of bluntness, PFE and a potion of absorbtion that gives demo a -18 penalty to hit you, and if you are dual wielding i would suggest the axe of the unyielding and defender of easthaven for your barbarian, maybe what you could do as well is keep stacks of M's sword and use them during the battle, only problem though is that they will only last 8 rounds by the sounds of it so make 'em last the best you can, and i actually like the crazy low level bg2 idea, i think im going to give it a go, but im definately going to make a bg 1 team and import them over, being at 161000 xp is going to be a HUGE help over 89000

    Dragonspearlolien
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited October 2012
    round 2: (i upload the 2 images for round 1 above)

    Completed a couple sidequests (de'An keep quest, beholder quest, bridge murder) and finish the first 2 levels of watcher's keep. The demon battle was easy and anticlimactic when I find out his fatal weakness.

    The chromatic demon has this stat (shadowkeep to find the info)

    Str: 19
    Dex: 18
    Con: 20
    Int: 14
    Wis: 9
    Cha: 9

    It has 140 hp, 4 attacks per round, base AC and thaco of -5, and it will hit any of my characters regardless what armors they have. Also it has 95% physical resistance but 0% magic and elemental resistances. Not sure why some spells can damage it while others have no effect. It is immune to magic missile and holy smite, but not skull trap! I spam 8 of those and kill it. (I admit that I kind of exploit the game a little bit...my barbarian tank faked drink a potion to cast immunity against magical energy on himself...but my tank couldve easily avoid the magical damage by drinking 2 potions of magic shielding in the adventure's market). I will redo a legit version next time.

    Here is the image of the result:
    image

    Proceed down to level 3!

    Roller12lolien
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Hehehe 6 pluses. I woudlnt be able to resist to click on them.

    DragonspearcyberhawkPhilhelmlolien
  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    edited October 2012
    bbear said:

    Not sure why some spells can damage it while others have no effect. It is immune to magic missile and holy smite, but not skull trap! I spam 8 of those and kill it.

    This is actually an exploit. The Gatekeeper demon is meant to be killed by using the opposing elementals to HIS elemental.
    When he is in its fire elemental form, use cone of cold, when he is ice form, use flaming arrow, etc. ... really, it's not that hard when you think about it. I really wonder why so many people fail to figure this out - especially when he is located in an area where the play of elements is a core part of the design. Oo

    Dragonspearlolien
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