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Weapon proficiency for Berk/T dual

Did some googling, not much turned up other than Celestial Fury and Staff of the Ram. That's a problem because I'm not planning to do much backstabbing.

So.. best weapon for a B/T dual? I am doing a duo run (Berk/Mage and Berk/T) and Staff of the Magi and FoA/DoE will be going to Berk/Mage. My Berk/T will be focusing on traps, pickpockets, locks etc. Of course he will scout too etc but not many backstabs. I will put Staff of the Ram on him in case, but..

Anyways. Keep UAI in mind. I was thinking maybe Carsomyr or dual wield Foebane and Purifier. Or whatever.

Thanks

Comments

  • BlacBlac Member Posts: 26
    After looking at Mike's RPG Center, I think I'll go ahead and go with Scimitars (Spectral Brand, Belm- Usuno's Blade until I get Spectral) and SotR. Will be my first time using scimitars too, so why not.

  • Durmir46Durmir46 Member Posts: 96
    edited July 15
    I am playing a Kensai/Thief at the moment (so almost the same toon) and I asked myself the same question at first. I ended up with Foebane + Purifier combo, only to discover that Foebane is currently bugged (it does not heal), which obviously made me regret my choice (the damage is still applied which still makes it a pretty deadly weapon at least). If you are playing in a team, FoA/DoE will be underwhelming as well. As a Kensai, I got no bonus defense (aside from a +2AC), and my life never really drops below 50% (hard mode), although sometimes it does when I clear an area without my team (I just cleared alone the fight before Demogorgon and I had barely 30% of my life left - no trap although now that I think about it I should have laid a few). So DoE is absolutely not necessary and you should focus on offensive (unless you play solo then I can definitely see the appeal, especially as a berk)

    From there and if you don't intend to use backstab (I backstab with the staff of the ram and at 250+ damage it's a nice way to say hello to a group of ennemies), axes are also a pretty good idea: you find good ones all along, and in the end the axe of the unyielding is simply a beast. With haste and all, the vorpal effect triggers VERY often, and when it does on a nasty baddie, it's just so satisfying. From there, scarlet ninja-to may sound like a good idea (for more vorpal), however I found little difference. Purifier as off-hand might still be the best. Alternatively, warhammers are pretty neat (crom faeyr of course, but more importantly runehammer). FoA is a bit disappointing as well: do not upgrade it to +5 or you can't haste yourself anymore, and the +4 version is still nasty, but keep in mind an off-hand attacks only once a round, so the damage output is not that great.

    In conclusion, until they fix Foebane, I recommend Axe of the Unyielding in main, and Purifier or Runehammer as an off-hand. The advantage of the warhammer is that you can use the dwarven warhammer as a ranged weapon (although you will not need ranged weapon nearly half as often as you would first think, especially if you play with a team).


    PS: don't go Carsomyr, I know what people say, but it is going to be very disappointing: you attack 1 less time a round and the damage output is just not that great. If you have Keldorn, give it to him, otherwise a good mage will do just as fine. You can also backstab an ennemy mage before she uses protection spells, but you don't intend to use backstabs...

    EDIT: Spectral Brand seems nice, but the damage output is actually pretty low. However at least you can use an occasional backstab with it. Don't take Belm, if you want a speed weapon use the scarlet ninja to

    Blac
  • BlacBlac Member Posts: 26
    That is some solid advice, thanks! Yeah, I realize Foebane was bugged after browsing forums for a bit. Luckily I went scimitars.

    I understand where you're coming from on DoE being not useful, but I kind of disagree. 20% resistance is always useful IMHO on a frontliner. As for the being unable to haste with FoA, well, there's always a bad side to everything. But I don't really mind because my APR will be decent enough already with my lvl13Berk>Mage. I'm not trying to powergame my way through the game, I actually limited myself to 80 stat points at char creation for both characters.

    I actually forgot about Scarlet Ninja-to, hah thanks for reminding me about that. I'll probably still use Belm until I unlock UAI though, then grab Scarlet. I will definitely still have Staff of the Ram on my Berk/T, I just don't predict using it very much or backstabbing too much. That could always change though!

    I know about Axe of the Unyielding, however I have used it before a bunch of times. I wanted to try something different this run (I totally have never used FoA/DoE before.. no, never. Nope. Lol.) but I've always been a sucker for FoA/DoE dualwield so that won't change lol. Runehammer I have never used (haven't used warhammers much in general, even in BG:1EE.. sorry Ashideena :() so I might try that. As for Crom Faeyr, I feel that is one of the most overrated weapons in BG, all it gives you is 25 str, and you can already reach 22 str legit (18 at char creation, BG:1EE tome, Machine of Lum the Mad, evil option in Hell Trials), maybe more but I can't recall. Bonus THAC0 and all is nice, but endgame you'll have more THAC0 than you know what to do with.

    I'm not planning on bringing ranged weapons in BG:2EE, my Berk/Mage will have more than enough spells for ranged if needed.

    Still in BG:1EE, just reached level 2 on both characters (both Berserkers, so BG:1EE shouldn't pose too much difficulty, even on Insane.)

  • BlacBlac Member Posts: 26
    Btw, you solo'd the fight before Demogorgon? Hats off to you, man. Hats off. They always mess me up big time every time I try on my solo runs. That fight is.. I hate it. Lol. But I always go there during SoA and not ToB, so maybe that's why xD

  • Durmir46Durmir46 Member Posts: 96
    Yes, I soloed the fight before the Demogorgon. I wanted to keep my traps for the baboon and I'm not too much into sleeping all the time, I feel like it's breaking the rythm of the game somehow. I usually lose someone on this fight so I decided to leave my team behind the door NE and solo them. The trick is to focus on the mage first and keep the beholder for last. They kinda messed me up a bit, ending with 30% of my life left or so. Foebane does not heal you, but it is still a very good damage dealer, gets the job done quickly. And the Purifier in off-and is definitely a fantastic idea, the magic resist gets handy more than once. With other items and passives, the Purifier can become one of the best off-hands there are out there.

    I agree with crom faeyr, but in warhammers, Runehammer is the real star, not crom faeyr. If you are like me and like to go full BG1 + BG2 + ToB, then warhammer is a very solid choice, with plenty of great weapons all along. Runehammer is definitely a great weapon.
    You can actually reach 23 in strength naturally, if you go through WK in SoA (the deck of many things will give you +1 str if you're still a fighter). I did WK first thing after Irenicus' dungeon, down to the machine of Lum the Mad; it's alright - the compass floor is very tough, but doable -, until the demi-liche and the dragon (which you don't have to kill to use the Machine, thankfully).

    I am a bit more of a powergamer (I like to do 1 game for RP, then 1 power game, and so on), so questions and choices were all over my mind before I started the game.

    You won't *need* ranged weapons indeed, so if you don't like the runhammer, there's no point in using warhammers. Another weapon I forgot to mention that can be especially useful to a berk/mage, is the Answerer. Long sword, so plenty of nice weapons all along the game. You get the Answerer quite late, but precisely when you need it the most: the cumulative debuff in magic resist is priceless for many of the toughest bosses. Storm Star (mace) is also fantastic, especially on a berk/thief, because you can arrive hidden to a group of mages and start furiously spamming the chain lightning, preventing them from casting at all in the first place. Ignores stoneskin, which is neat.

    Be careful regarding the APR, with FoA, not being able to be hasted (aside from switching weapons first, which quickly becomes tedious and painful) is actually a major disadvantage. With my gauntelets of extraordinary specialisation, I have 4.5 APR. With haste, that's 9. If you use weapons that rely on on-hit%triggers, then 9 APR is more than just twice as many... (think of axe of the unyelding again, but also storm star or even FoA when it comes to interrupting casters).

    Now I gave the Spectral Brand to Minsc (who I respecialised in DW with scimiticars) and as a warning: it is very disappointing. The damage is much lower than other end-game weapons, and the THAC0 -10 bonus proved to be absolutely useless. The issue here is that AC does not scale well in the game, and at some stage you *will* hit everything all the time, regardless of THAC0, as much as everything *will*hit you, regardless of AC. Hence the need to focus on damage output rather than THAC0. SO the spectral brand ends up being just a normal +5 scimiticar. Now it is up to you.

    BlacGusinda
  • borntodieborntodie Member Posts: 51
    edited July 17
    Regarding FoA: just do not upgrade it beyond +4. The FoA is still one of the best weapons in the game because of the slow debuff, so I agree it is a great choice for the mage.

    For your b/t, I recommend against Carsomyr, because you are already using the staff of the magi for that purpose (and the SotM does it better). Instead, dual wield a +1 apr weapon with either Axe of the Unyielding or Celestial Fury in your mainhand. Celestial Fury is a great weapon even in ToB, see this thread: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/60384/how-does-celestial-fury-scale-into-tob
    Durmir46 said:

    From there, scarlet ninja-to may sound like a good idea (for more vorpal), however I found little difference. Purifier as off-hand might still be the best.

    Could you please elaborate? Almost everyone recommends +apr weapons like snt for off-hand.. especially when using improved haste.. If you skip improved haste and use greater whirlwind instead I can understand the reasoning for Purifier as offhand. But otherwise.. I don't really understand the reasoning.

    Post edited by borntodie on
    Blac
  • Durmir46Durmir46 Member Posts: 96
    borntodie said:



    Durmir46 said:

    From there, scarlet ninja-to may sound like a good idea (for more vorpal), however I found little difference. Purifier as off-hand might still be the best.

    Could you please elaborate? Almost everyone recommends +apr weapons like snt for off-hand.. especially when using improved haste.. If you skip improved haste and use greater whirlwind instead I can understand the reasoning for Purifier as offhand. But otherwise.. I don't really understand the reasoning.
    There are 2 aspects behind this reasoning:

    1) Focusing on damage is not the only valid criterion to choose a weapon. The MR from the Purifier in my mind is more valuable than even 1 APR with a weapon of your choice. The most dangerous ennemies in the game being mages, this is a reasonable claim I believe, even more true if you play solo

    2) Even in terms of pure damage, consider that if dual happened at F(13) or more, with the gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation, a speed off-hand will give only 1/2 APR bonus, which is an 11% damage increase on your main hand. This is pretty weak (increasing even further aspect 1 btw), and is inferior to what pure damage dealing weapons would deal as extra damage compared to the scarlet ninja to (such as FoA obviously, but not only).

    So yeah, I'm gonna stick to my guns on this one.

  • hoi_Grhoi_Gr Member Posts: 9
    edited August 2
    I know the game by heart and all the saves/resists/immunities I need for every part but when I have UAI it is just too tempting to go for the 95-100% MR and just run circles around casters.

    Purifier, Scarlet is usually my go-to but I don't invest in offhand proficiencies ever, preferring to have a secondary main instead when I know I won't need the extra MR. So maybe something like Purifer/Unyielding/FoA/Celestial+Scarlet is what I run. Remember that Celestial Fury isn't just good for backstabbing. 4 attack with that thing almost guarantees a stun.

    Durmir is mainly correct about his point on off hand APR not being a must. There is some debate about what happens when you dual at 9 or need the gauntlets of extraordinary specialization for some other companion. The bonus under these conditions is the real +1 APR which is significant if you consider main hand on-hit effects. However for the just the +1/2 attack I would too go for Purifier off-hand and the rest of my selection as mains.

    If off-hand proficiency is important to you, Foebane+Purifier and pump those Bastards all the way but you probably won't notice significant difference going FoA/Celestia/Unyielding+Purifier with Grandmastery in main and nothing in Bastard.

  • ArchGhostArchGhost Member Posts: 18
    Scimitars or Longswords are the best option. You eventually have enough prof for both and there's really no reason to forgo backstabs and Assassination HLA with something like FoA or Bastard swords.

    Two-Handed Sword + Quarterstaff is another favorite of mine. Carsomyr + Human Flesh Armor + Ring 0f Gaxx + a little more MR is good times, while you can plop on the old Staff of the Ram to decimate anything that needs a good stab.

    Remember when dual wielding, your off hand only EVER gets one attack. So when you use Scarlet/Belm/kundane in the off hand it doesn't really matter how weak it is, under improved Haste it's adding TWO attacks to your main hand weapon. and that's the real power of the set up. I don't know if EE restored True Grandmastery but with Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization it's possible to hit 10 attacks under I. haste, or (should be) 8 with nerfed GM in BG2. In that case Scarlet in the offhand sets you to 9 APR even without the gauntlets under I. Haste, or 8 mainhand attacks -- strictly better than 8 apr when dual wielding two regular weapons even with the gauntlets, which is 7 mainhand attacks. With the gauntlets and Scarlet/Belm/Kundane you could push 10 APR under I. Haste or 9 mainhand attacks. This is all assuming dual at fighter 13 .

  • FylFyl Member Posts: 62
    Why not just Halforc F/T multi?

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